90 replies to this topic

[Sunskift]

With VP 9.9.0a I, right now, have a super good experience. Basically all availabe tables plays good and super smooth. The later releases, directed to VP 9.9.0, are actually outstanding. There is, at least in my system, virtually no lag and this makes it possible to reallly play the game, almost like in a real machine. Stutter, that used to be one of the most frequent topics of this forum, is history! Thank you, all you who made this possible!

When it comes to physmod 5, I have loaded most of the beta releases made here. I have PinballX selecting the right path and in fact, I have usually both versions availabe side by side. I must say that physmod 5 shows a lot of potential and I'm really excited to see vp10 in the future. It is also fun to be involved in beta testing!

Here is my question. Hopefully it is only on my system that this happens.... When playing some of the physmod 5 tables, that generally runs really smooth, I get periods (like 3 to 5 seconds) of bad stutter. Is this only me, OR should I start to collect info and submitt to the developers, or to the VP10 team? It would be nice to hear if this happens to others as well. If this is a wider issue, I wonder if we are ready for mass releases of physmod 5 beta or if there is something that needs attention in the code team?

Thanks again for a LOT of impressive development work, both from the VP Team and from all the table developers!

[gamefixer]

I only tried Physmod5 on a few tables. I even went as far as changing the flipper settings on some tables that had up the middle shots that were impossible to make with 990. I didnt notice any stutter at all on those tables.

 

My build is similar to yours, Real DMD with a PinDMD2, same CPU, might be the same mobo, same amount of RAM but one 780GTX to render the image to the two displays. I'm not sure what video driver I'm using though and I also use PinballX.

 

One quick question (totally not related). What 32" LCD are you using in the backbox? 

[gStAv]

strange that you mention stutter with physmod tables as my experience is the opposite.

I get no stutter with the physmod tables which I got with the same table for vp9.90 

[Les73gTx]

I have no stutter at all with any version of VP and I also run PinballX. What I have is all of my physmod tables never save the DMD to the 3rd monitor. After every restart of VP I have to drag and resize my DMD again. 9.9.0 is completely fine and saves everything.

[Sunskift]

Great to hear that no stutter is reported from any other so far!
I will try running both my screens with the same video card (the GTX 760 - need to find a couple of DVI cables though). I believe that I heard something about that, long time ago....

I use Samsung 5005 for both playfield (46") and backbox (32").

[boiydiego]

try to use arngrim nvidea settings the worked good for me for apollo13 13ball stutter maybe also on your setup ..

 

http://vpforums.org/...ttingsdeel1.jpg

 

http://vpforums.org/...ttingsdeel2.jpg

 

http://vpforums.org/...ettingvideo.jpg

 

also if you have multiple exe setup in pbx be sure that it runs with the right exe .

Edited by boiydiego, 17 August 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[ICPjuggla]

Can someone translate the settings. I don't read that language. I only read English.

[arngrim]

some words are the same and the order should be the same i guess

[boiydiego]

Can someone translate the settings. I don't read that language. I only read English.

 

just compare the to windows sometimes the order is diffrend because of the name in france starts with diffrend letter , else use maybe google transelator

Edited by boiydiego, 17 August 2014 - 05:01 PM.

[arngrim]

are you still in xp icp, you need to resolve that too

[gtxjoe]

Here is a list of physmod table releases on this site I found through a quick search.  I am sure I missed a few... let me know and I can update this

 

Download section

The Simpsons (javier1515): http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=9894

Adv of Rocky and Bullwinke(javier1515): http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=9771

Last Action Hero (javier1515):  http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=9727

 

Shared via post

TOM beta(teppotee): http://www.vpforums....=28720&p=277218

Freddy beta(teppotee): http://www.vpforums....=28719&p=277212

Bride of Pinbot (unclewilly): http://www.vpforums....c=9687&p=274854

Creature FTBL (unclewilly): http://www.vpforums....=27#entry264695

Cyclone beta (ClarkKent): http://www.vpforums....=27416&p=273289

Fire beta (unclewilly): http://www.vpforums....=27416&p=268808

White Water (ClarkKent): http://www.vpforums....=27416&p=261569

 

Official Physmod betas: http://www.vpforums....=27416&p=261239

Unofficial Physmod with modified nudging and different registry storage location:  http://www.vpforums....=28313&p=277099

Edited by gtxjoe, 18 August 2014 - 10:28 PM.

[ICPjuggla]

are you still in xp icp, you need to resolve that too

 

lol, yup still running XP for the moment..

 

I plan on making the switch to 7 in the next few months. I'm also still not done updating the cab either, I've been side tracked with real life and a project with gtxjoe. :-)

[RYSr]

 

Here is a list of physmod table releases on this site I found through a quick search.  I am sure I missed a few... let me know and I can update this

 

Download section

The Simpsons (javier1515): http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=9894

Adv of Rocky and Bullwinke(javier1515): http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=9771

Last Action Hero (javier1515):  http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=9727

 

Shared via post

TOM beta(teppotee): http://www.vpforums....=28720&p=277218

Freddy beta(teppotee): http://www.vpforums....=28719&p=277212

Bride of Pinbot (unclewilly): http://www.vpforums....c=9687&p=274854

Creature FTBL (unclewilly): http://www.vpforums....=27#entry264695

Cyclone beta (ClarkKent): http://www.vpforums....=27416&p=273289

Fire beta (unclewilly): http://www.vpforums....=27416&p=268808

White Water (ClarkKent): http://www.vpforums....=27416&p=261569

 

Official Physmod betas: http://www.vpforums....=27416&p=261239

 

 

Unofficial Physmod with modified nudging and different registry storage location:  http://www.vpforums....=28313&p=277099

 

 

gtxjoe,

 

Thanks for the post, and the reference to the modded nudging link, Very interesting thread that I missed in the lower listings on the home page.

mjr has studied the accelerometer nudging code in VP and given it a long needed update to keep the ball from drifting. Toxie posted that the new code will be added to VP10.

I am constantly impressed by the talent of all the opensouce developers contributions.

Can't wait to test it out...

Rich

[goesta]

Thx for the list gtxjoe!

Not even knowed a Physmod exist for White Water :-)

Back to update work then........

[EalaDubhSidhe]

Check those tables out, and whether the centre shots are an improvement. Given the nature of the power/speed balance that VP9 requires to make it work that results in excess ball speed, it'll be interesting to know if VP10 is able to address that issue where 'professional' sims like Pinball Arcade fail at it. Even if there are still problems, the combined trough and dampening table template I've been developing (and which I shall post fully working versions of soon) should be easily adaptable to VP10 physics as an added table script to give the best of both worlds, and (for single ball games at least to begin with) ought to be easy enough to copy and paste onto existing physmod games. More work will probably be required to mesh multiple trough balls with the VPM script, mind.

[TedB]

I have played a couple of physmod tables and to be honest my first impression was not that it played better than anything ever developed on VP. I am not criticizing anyones hard work, I know it is still in development, authors need to learn to work with the new options and it is damn hard to emulate a real pinball table. 

I tried to do the same a year ago with a table from JP CBW - a pinball table that I know pretty well and failed horribly. Every time I tried to adjust a certain shot to make it similar to the real table something else was messed up. So not trying to criticize - I try to understand.

 

The tables that (for me) feel the most real on VP are EMs and certainly those from Starman and Pinuck.  There are some modern tables that seem to be good as well, but never reach the same realism as the EMs. The brilliant T2 and Haunted House (Koadics version) are examples of more modern tables with physics that I like and feel quite real to me.

 

There are other physics that I like, the physics in the original table Scarface is excellent. I love the bounciness and how challenging it is. Something of the same challenging bounciness there is in Al' s Garage Band Goes on a World Tour from oooPLAYER1ooo (unfortunately the table has a major bug).

 

Now to come back to physmod5. I see some praise that tables play great, folks can make all kind of skill shots nice, but I also saw that someone mentioned 'great physics, the first game I played was my best score ever..." 

To be honest that is sure sign for me to avoid that table so what are good physics? 

VP always has the name to create pretty good physics, but it is always seems a lot easier than a real table. I was hoping that the physmod tables would change that. A 'heavy' ball, played with force should have enough bounce and unpredictability to make it hard to keep the ball in play, and if the ball is not played with force the ball should not bounce and stick to the flippers.

Haven' t seen a physmod table yet that played exactly like I expected and was also able to make me believe it was just as hard or harder than a real table.

As mentioned before no criticism, the guys that created these tables and of course mukuste are pioneers and this is very complicated stuff . Also there seems to be no method to measure how accurate a table plays so I can be totally wrong.

Someone can only mention 'it feels real' or not. I am sure my personal 'feel' is incorrect. I almost never play a real table and haven't played it a lot in the arcades in the 80's / 90's. My pinball physics feel is probably mostly influenced by VP and of course my experience with real life gravity. The latter makes me think, I am entitled to at least say something about it but I am certainly not a jimmyfingers.

 

Now to finalize this for me rather lengthy post - sorry about that- hopefully it is still coherent (tend to write a bit disorganized..).  I would love to see some players with real pinball experience commenting on the physics of the mentioned tables by gtxjoe. Especially interested in what they think about the difficulty of the tables compared to the real table. Is it easy to beat a high score of a real table on VP or not?

I know it is still not an accurate measurement if a table plays as a real table, but at least it is a less subjective indicator than 'feel'.

Edited by TedB, 19 August 2014 - 08:58 PM.

[gStAv]

which version sould I use on White Water?

[Shoopity]

I just want to echo TedB's sentiment a little bit too.  Although I admittedly have an exceptionally small amount of real pinball experience (especially compared to many people on this board) so I usually don't say anything as I chalk it up to my lack of really knowing; also I haven't tried too many of these "official" physmod tables.  I do want to say that in some aspects I much prefer the physmod versions, but sometimes I see what I consider to be odd behavior.

 

The biggest thing that sticks out to me is when the ball has so much spin it actually overcomes a bounce.  For example, let's say I cradle a ball then try to shoot up a ramp, but I hit a post instead, the ball will frequently either pause at the post, or even come down slightly only to go back up the table (I'm assuming because it's spinning so hard, I rarely turn on the green dots).  I know this behavior does happen in real life, but just recently I was at Lyon's and for all $10 worth of games (with about 30% replays) I saw that happen once or twice.  And watching all the PAPA videos, it almost never happens (of course, they're a little more in control of the ball).

 

I also haven't said anything until now because I've just figured authors are still dialing in the specifics (although I thought one of the points of the better physics is so things wouldn't have to be so tweaked).  I also have played enough to notice, does the physmod version still suffer from Oblique Correction?  I know on a regular table there are times when a ball bounces up under a flipper and the ball acts like there's a magnet in the flipper, sort of stuck to it; I've always attributed this to the Oblique Correction.  I definitely prefer physmod over regular physics, but it seems some tweaking can still be done (not sure if the code needs tweaking or if authors just need to dial stuff in better).  

[TedB]

 

I definitely prefer physmod over regular physics, but it seems some tweaking can still be done (not sure if the code needs tweaking or if authors just need to dial stuff in better).  

 

Physmod is the most exciting thing that is currently going on imo, but as mentioned I would like to see the objective of the hard work take another direction.

 

VP standard physics are considered easier than real physics. The main purpose of the physmod currently seems to be to change physics so additional tricks or shots are possible and this should result in more real life behavior.
If the focus of the physmod is mainly to make additional shots/tricks work but will not tackle the below par difficulty compared to real tables it will basically make VP easier than harder. To be honest that is what I thought after playing two of the physmods. I expected harder tables and unpredictable behavior because of the introduction of spin but it didn't feel that way.

It would be nice if a highscore on VP would mean the same or preferably even valued higher than a highscore on a real table. I  would gladly sacrifice some accuracy / realism for that. 
 

[EalaDubhSidhe]

One big reason for the comparative easiness of current VP physics is the cycle timing. 10ms between cycles sounds miniscule, until you break the game down into the myriad of patterns continually being generated that are also very small. Most folks have gotten used to faster and faster flipper speeds over time, which themselves can't take up more than a few cycles at a time per flip, and every such pattern activity begins by syncing with the start of a cycle, thus tying every occurance to the exact same timing conditions. Few cycles coupled with predictable timing becomes itself a pattern which the human mind is capable of instinctively learning.

 

Increase the cycle 'frame rate' from 100Hz to 1000Hz, as VP10 intends to, and you should see a sudden 'difficulty' spike because all timing cycles will become subject to natural variances due to human behaviour that can't instinctively predict to that extreme level of accuracy now.