47 replies to this topic

[EalaDubhSidhe]

Lesson two: vertical wall images.

 

Ok, so let's say you've made yourself a nice target texture that captures the light behind it, or rollover guide with a side texture higlighting the interior bulb glow. How to display it? You can't use a standard vertical wall, because the crummy VP light sourcing will dull the texture (or worse), ruining the effect; you also don't want to slap down a decal that will restrict the playfield to one viewpoint in order to display properly.

 

Once again, stacked ramp textures come to the rescue, in much the same fashion as they do with the posts. It's a bit more of an exact science this time and more mathematics are involved, but the preparation of your textures will be simpler - even though it looks a lot more intricate with so many thin strips needed.

 

This is the principle behind how it's done (see attachment):

 

 shadow-free texture stacks.jpg   187.63KB   75 downloads

 

...and this is the demo table that will let you see for yourself.

 

 stacked texture targets and shines.vpt   756KB   23 downloads

 

Now for the snag: I haven't found an adequate way to animate spot targets constructed in this fashion yet; at least, not with the ususal techniques. Even if you did render all the strips as alpha ramps (strongly not advised), the sheer number on a typical table would likely cause the editor a massive headache. But ask yourself what you'll actually be missing - the main reason for animating VP spot targets is to show some visual feedback of a ball hitting a physical object, and unless the target is on a particularly flexible shaft and vibrates when struck back to its neutral position (try this for an animation, it'll look much more realistic), you don't tend to see this on a real machine. One reason that spot targets are more challenging to complete than drops is that without visual cues, the shots are harder to judge. If visual cues are a big issue, then the target lamp can always double as a feedback indicator, as more modern macines do. Still, if anyone can find a useful animation exploit for this kind of target technique, bring it on.

 

Stay tuned for the next lesson: side wall reflections.

Edited by EalaDubhSidhe, 12 April 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[faralos]

i still use two drops for spot targets one in front of the other

 the front one stays up while the back one only comes up once the front one gets hit and drops

this simulates a ball hitting the spot target since what you see

is a target that appears to move back a bit by the ball making contact with it

 if you can figure a better way please try to 'make it so'

and thanks for including a demo table since you completely lost me with that explanation

[EalaDubhSidhe]

Everyone uses two drops for spot target animation, but you have to put up with the crappy lightsource and dimmed texture on them. This new way is a tradeoff; do you want brighter and nicer-looking targets, or do you want the animation? The challenge is out there for anyone who can provide both.

[rob046]

I'll definitely be checking this out the next time I have to make a standup, or at least certainly the ones that face right.  Currently what I'll do is use a brighter color or texture for those, go as bright as I can.  Then if need be also mute the targets facing the other way so that the difference isn't quite as large.  Very much a hack & this only helps a little.  Also this way should look better so I'll give it a shot.  I wouldn't worry much about the animation.  Honestly the only time I ever see a standup move on a real game is when its a weak, slow hit.  Otherwise it all happens too fast to notice anything.  So this should hardly be a concern for anybody.  You can still do a "tink" sound to help indicate a target has been hit, along with the rom sounds helping.

[toxie]

Just to understand this correctly: You are doing this nightmarish hack because of enabled VP lighting for walls?

 

 

What could be done from a VP code point of view to help you avoid this? Adding a flag to walls that can disable lighting?

[unclewilly]

You could disable the lighting altogether for walls. A lot of us do the lighting and shadows within out textures

[toxie]

Okay, in that case i need some more details (terminology!) and opinions:

 

So this is only for the "standard" walls in VP (like they are named in the editor) or something else, too?

As for light/shadows: I guess i would make a flag there then and have you guys test it afterwards if it does what it should do..

[unclewilly]

I would say for the wall object and the targe t object

[oooPLAYER1ooo]

Agreed disabling shadows on those objects altogether on a table would be fantastic

[faralos]

the problem with disabling shadows though is now the table may not look realistic

 it will have a weird look to it with no shadows at all on it

but then again all the targets will or should show up better

and does anyone else have problems when setting drops too close to the outside walls?

 I tend to get textures missing when trying to do so

or the entire drop target disappears when set too close to said walls

[unclewilly]

Id rater add shadows to my playfiels texTure then use the vpshadows

[toxie]

As said, i guess i can make that optional, but i'll have to look at the source again first.

It's now on my todo-list, so maybe i'll even get around on the weekend for that.

[EalaDubhSidhe]

People have been waiting YEARS for an option to turn the default VP light source off on an object, and you're right; it would instantly cancel out the need for workarounds like this (it's not even a 'hack', nor actually *that* nightmarish, just a bit of lateral thinking), as well as preserving the easy animation techniques everyone's accustomed to.

Edited by EalaDubhSidhe, 12 April 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[EalaDubhSidhe]

the problem with disabling shadows though is now the table may not look realistic

 it will have a weird look to it with no shadows at all on it

but then again all the targets will or should show up better

 

What you will lose if *all* shadows and light sources are turned off is any sense of shape - you wouldn't, for example, be able to see the corners on the interior sides of the outer table wall, or any other squared-off vertical structure like a drop target shape, and would have to compensate for yourself by making each side a different colour or texture to enable them to be seen against each other - that's why it would have to be strictly optional. For the higher-end developers though, it would still be much more preferable to turn them off and let us do it ourselves.

 

There are, however certain types of effects based on elementary principles of light physics that could *only* be done with flat-plane textures and not vertical ones.

 

Incidentally, toxie: if you're taking suggestions for things to work on in the editor, might I suggest the ability to add textures to the top of a flipper, and to the sides of a flipper rubber? Since we've been stuck with the same generic flipper rendering since 2001, those two things would immediately make another big difference to potential realism without having to employ another major workaround (which, er, I was going to experiment with next).

[chepas]

Eala, have you tried JPs primitive flipper decals?

 

I'm almost certain the same can be achieved for the sides, I did want to try that out and funnily enough I've just grabbed a couple of gottlieb side flipper images to try with.

 

Probably can be done, though very tricky. I will give up for now because I'll be here till next week trying to figure it out.

 

 Flipdecal1.jpg   8.45KB   30 downloads  Flipdecal2.jpg   12.96KB   31 downloads

Edited by chepas, 12 April 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[toxie]

rev 537 adds an option 'Enable Lighting' to Walls (and everything that originates from Walls)..

Please let me know if this is what you had in mind or if it needs additional tweaking..

 

As for the textured flippers: Good idea, but much more work.. I'll see what i can do..

[koadic]

537 is in the dropbox...

One issue... using the new option on a drop target, the top of the drop target is now white regardless of whatever color it was supposed to be.

[rob046]

This seems to work!  Just used it on Mystic, & even the issue with the top of a drop target is not big deal because I already am using different top wall to top each drop target.  Although, those drops are white anyways so maybe I wouldn't see the issue regardless.

 

Damn, you should see how much brighter my left bank drops got after disabling lighting!  The difference is very literally night & day.  Now we can set our shade right onto our textures with no worry of how it will turn out once rendered in VP.  Since it will turn out exactly how the texture says it should.

 

Only 1 problem though, I can't really make use of this feature until it becomes part of the official VP.  Well, I could, but it would hurt the quality of my current release.  Because I'm currently using the way I'd previously *try* to defeat VP's crap shading.  & if I update to utilizing this new method, the drops will actually look worse for those still on VP915 official.

Although for most tables this won't be an issue because I don't think most authors do this hack.

 

Btw, do you guys keep a change log or version log?  I see a new setting on alpha ramps as well but I have no idea what it does.

Oh, & thanks!

Btw, I'm not sure if you guys realize just how much this will help tables visually.  This has always been a very underrated flaw in VP.  It would of been more useful to have back in the days when more walls were used for textures, these days more ramps get used.  But still, this is a pretty big deal.

[toxie]

537 is in the dropbox...

One issue... using the new option on a drop target, the top of the drop target is now white regardless of whatever color it was supposed to be.

 

Yeah, i know.. For now i don't know yet how to set vertex colors and at the same time use vertex transformations (hooray to weird DX7! ), so i just stuck to using transformations (and having implicit white color)..

But textures work.. I guess this is also the main purpose of this 'feature', so.. ..

[rob046]

537 is in the dropbox...

One issue... using the new option on a drop target, the top of the drop target is now white regardless of whatever color it was supposed to be.

 

Yeah, i know.. For now i don't know yet how to set vertex colors and at the same time use vertex transformations (hooray to weird DX7! ), so i just stuck to using transformations (and having implicit white color)..

But textures work.. I guess this is also the main purpose of this 'feature', so.. ..

 

Actually, textures only work for all the sides.  They don't get applied to the top, so this actually will be an issue going forward.  For standups it won't matter, since tops are set to invisible anyways.

Edited by rob046, 12 April 2013 - 09:56 PM.