1488 replies to this topic

[fuzzel]

What? Serious?

[The Loafer]

I think what he's saying is people should stop what is maybe taken as "berating" ideas like adding mkv support. It's part of pinball (this is actually true) and this thread asked for suggestions, so let's leave the debate and personal comments on these types of ideas out of it.

 

but I could be wrong lol

 

On the issue of video, I do agree it would be more convenient for adding ability to add movie/mkv/etc stuff then what I understand is the current solution of individual frames (if I got that right).  Never mind the more modern stuff, I would love to see the full smooth video of the attract mode playing on the little arcade cab on the Tron table?  It's not all about Netflix eheh but also adding flexibility and anything that makes it easier to implement is a good thing right?

 

Personally I'd love to see advancements via a 64bit version of both VP/VPM and actual integration of both as I gather that would help with managing resources/memory, offloading to different cores, etc.  I know the VP/VPM integration is likely never to happen because of legal issues (one can dream though ) but other recommendations would be cool.

 

That and adding taco's, always nice to see more tacos

[WilsonB]

Personally I'd love to see advancements via a 64bit version of both VP/VPM and actual integration of both as I gather that would help with managing resources/memory, offloading to different cores, etc.  I know the VP/VPM integration is likely never to happen because of legal issues (one can dream though ) but other recommendations would be cool.

 

I agree with bring the complete to 64bit

[TerryRed]

As someone who certainly loves lots of lights and lots of videos with my VPX tables...

 

I will say "priority" should goto things like full dynamic 3d lighting / DX12 more than videos.

 

That said... videos on the playfield absolutely ARE part of pinball. Many of the recent Stern and JJP tables have a small display that shows videos / game info,etc on the "playfield" during gameplay. Holding on to the idea that pinball should only exist as it's seen on "old" tables is outdated to say the least.

 

As for PuP-Packs and videos during gameplay... even in my own creations I try to keep video clips short to match the timing of the moment / event. Long running videos are too much (except maybe for a hurry up mode).

 

VPX and FP can currently play "videos" (100's of jpgs) on the playfield itself. VPX however, doesn't have any kind of built in support for it. It can be done as randr and myself have shown with VPX Jaws and MOTU... but it wasn't a simple task compared to for example FP's Image Sequencer and Overlay functions (I should know since I did both).

 

To have actual video files play "in" VPX itself... again this "can" be done as VPVR has shown with it's ability to stream Pup-packs into the VPX table as an actual element of the game. This could possibly be adapted to normal VPX and let pup do all the hard work. This would also include being able to use PUPDMD within VPX itself. You already have the framework and many choices on how you want to deal with playing videos built into pup already (direct script commands, pup-packs, dof triggering,etc)

 

 

That said.... I'm, no programmer. So my talk is cheap and I certainly can't help make something like this happen.

 

But I can certainly appreciate everything you guys DO make happen!

[Rawnei]

To have actual video files play "in" VPX itself... again this "can" be done as VPVR has shown with it's ability to stream Pup-packs into the VPX table as an actual element of the game. This could possibly be adapted to normal VPX and let pup do all the hard work. This would also include being able to use PUPDMD within VPX itself. You already have the framework and many choices on how you want to deal with playing videos built into pup already (direct script commands, pup-packs, dof triggering,etc)

To copy an external window and display the contents of that can't be compared to fully fledged video playback, the code required for each scenario is leagues apart, copying a window is simple compared to video playback.

 

There's two side of this coin, one side is would be nice to have other is the time and effort it would require which has to be taken into consideration as well. Just porting the engine to another graphics pipeline and rebuilding the UI to something more modern are both huge tasks that will require a lot of time.

[chepas]

yes and

my request mkv support, is not off topic
it's not like asking for the creation of a space shuttle to go to mars

Let's say it's an ideal world and you get `MKV` support into VP tommorow morning. Then what?

 

- Would you be on your merry way creating scenes inside any video editing software?

- Animating images and text over the mkv then importing into VP (or this would need to be added to VP ((scene editing of some kind))?

- Hard stamping score/bonus as text over video.

- Or do you want multiple video layers inside VP?

 

Massive ballache and I haven't listed the half of it you're best off sticking with something cheap and cheerful like the puppy thing (especially if it's just VP based)

Edited by chepas, 25 January 2020 - 11:08 AM.

[LynnInDenver]

I agree with Terry on the priority thing - MKV (or MP4, or AVI, or really any actual movie) should be a little lower on the implementation list if it makes it there, even though it would be nice. Dynamic lighting and multiscreen support (so directb2s becomes totally optional) would be more immediately nicer. Better original table DMD support would also be nicer to have, as UltraDMD, as I've noted elsewhere, is poorly documented, fragile, and apparently abandoned with not all the intended features implemented.

[chepas]

only a window to display mkv on the bg (and especially the innstruction  ==> playmovie  "xxxxx.mkv" (for example)

for the scores there already exists textbox (with transparency above the window mkv possibly) and emreel just to display images, if need be.
I don't have to create scenes since they are already done in Stern's roms (stranger things, sword, iron maiden, deadpool ....)

 

As far as I know in a Stern "rom" image it will be packed with video and messages, so you will have to recreate the scenes anyway. Even though I only have experience looking at BM66 and Swars I'm guessing it's similar for all.
 

[TerryRed]

 

 

yes and

my request mkv support, is not off topic
it's not like asking for the creation of a space shuttle to go to mars

Let's say it's an ideal world and you get `MKV` support into VP tommorow morning. Then what?

 

- Would you be on your merry way creating scenes inside any video editing software?

- Animating images and text over the mkv then importing into VP (or this would need to be added to VP ((scene editing of some kind))?

- Hard stamping score/bonus as text over video.

- Or do you want multiple video layers inside VP?

 

Massive ballache and I haven't listed the half of it you're best off sticking with something cheap and cheerful like the puppy thing (especially if it's just VP based)

 

seulement une fenêtre pour afficher mkv sur la bg (et surtout l'instruction playmovie "xxxxx.mkv" (par exemple)
pour les scores il existe déjà textbox (avec transparence dessus la fenêtre mkv éventuellement) et emreel juste pour afficher des images , si besoin est.
je n'ai pas a créer de scènes puisqu'elles sont déjà faites dans les rom de Stern (stranger things,sword,iron maiden,deadpool....)

pup est trop compliqué a mettre en place

maintenant , si c'est trop compliqué pour les dev , je comprendrai.
C'est pas la peine d'utiliser un ton moqueur

il n' existe pas de mauvaises questions , seulement des mauvaises réponses.

 

trad. google :

 

only a window to display mkv on the bg (and especially the innstruction  ==> playmovie  "xxxxx.mkv" (for example)
for the scores there already exists textbox (with transparency above the window mkv possibly) and emreel just to display images, if need be.
I don't have to create scenes since they are already done in Stern's roms (stranger things, sword, iron maiden, deadpool ....)

pup is too complicated to set up

now, if it's too complicated for dev, i'll understand.
You don't have to use a mocking tone

there are no wrong questions, only wrong answers.

 

 

 

 

PuP is too complicated to setup? Only devs know how use it?

 

Hmmmmm....

 

Almost 11000 downloads.of PuP / Popper...  installed and used by many many people who know NOTHING about code, table authoring, videos... you name it. THEY got it working just fine and can enjoy some fantastic original vpx tables that use pup, TODAY.

 

Many of those same people.... NOT devs.... also now have been able to make their own creations for VPX using PuP.

 

 

 

What you are asking for already exists with PuP. It's literally the very first thing I ever created using it years ago.

 

You can have a basic single layer backglass that can play "MKV" or almost any other video and uses simple commands directly from table script. Or even simpler, use a single DOF command to trigger your video, then do everything else using the PuP-Pack Editor.

 

Or if you want you can have up to 19 video layers and overlays and text or even external app and game support. It can be as simple or advanced as you want.

[The Loafer]

Although PUP does a fine job for what you describe Terry, the eventual goal should be to have VP depending less on 3rd party apps. This is not just subject to PUP but to db2s, ultradmd and yes hopefully at some point VPM (ie: I agree with what you said LynninDenver)

 

I do agree although I hope it is the end goal, I do think there are other areas to concentrate on first, starting with whatever the hell the devs want to work on LOL.  At the end of the day, this is all free stuff and the current devs I believe have a hobby called “need to work for a living” and “family/friend time” that should be taking precedent over this VP dev hobby thing, so anything they want to work on, I’m fine as a priority.  It has to be fun so if tackling an update to lighting is more fun (and really potentially benefits many/all tables), then it’s a go here!

[TerryRed]

Although PUP does a fine job for what you describe Terry, the eventual goal should be to have VP depending less on 3rd party apps. This is not just subject to PUP but to db2s, ultradmd and yes hopefully at some point VPM (ie: I agree with what you said LynninDenver)

 

I do agree although I hope it is the end goal, I do think there are other areas to concentrate on first, starting with whatever the hell the devs want to work on LOL.  At the end of the day, this is all free stuff and the current devs I believe have a hobby called “need to work for a living” and “family/friend time” that should be taking precedent over this VP dev hobby thing, so anything they want to work on, I’m fine as a priority.  It has to be fun so if tackling an update to lighting is more fun (and really potentially benefits many/all tables), then it’s a go here!

 

Nailed it!

[fuzzel]

We try our best to give you all these requested features but you're right real life is coming in between. At the moment I try to rework parts of the UI. I think this will take a while until we can start a new beta phase but I think the waiting is worth it

[TerryRed]

We try our best to give you all these requested features but you're right real life is coming in between. At the moment I try to rework parts of the UI. I think this will take a while until we can start a new beta phase but I think the waiting is worth it

 

 

Many of us have families and real life to deal with. So we completely understand. This is a hobby, not a service.

 

I'm in the military, so I can be gone away from home and family for 6 to 8 months at a time... so getting the time I want to do things in this hobby doesn't always work out.... but I try.

 

 

Anything you guys do towards development of VP is a gift to the community. UI updates will be AWESOME!

 

Thank you.

[TerryRed]

pup player is it only for cab?
how do you put the video in the red frame ?
because I only play on desktop

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many examples of how PuP can be used for Desktop.

 

 

 

 

Video demos:

 

https://youtu.be/SoyAelbm5ZU

 

https://youtu.be/c3hfLE0u4FA

 

 

PuP-Packs on Top:

 

https://vpinball.com...fp-vpx-fx3-etc/

 

 

At the end of the day, you are still running a separate window on top of VPX running in Borderless Windowed mode... but it works fine within that capacity and is the only option you have for Desktop single screen use currently. (windows gets in the way of Z order for arranging windows of different apps, but if you use my pupinit batch files with the pup-packs...usually not needed... and follow instructions, most VPX tables and PuP-Packs will work fine. It's easy, really)

Edited by TerryRed, 25 January 2020 - 06:45 PM.

[toxie]

 

Personally I'd love to see advancements via a 64bit version of both VP/VPM and actual integration of both as I gather that would help with managing resources/memory, offloading to different cores, etc.  I know the VP/VPM integration is likely never to happen because of legal issues (one can dream though ) but other recommendations would be cool.

 

I agree with bring the complete to 64bit

I already did this for both VPX and VPM years ago.. The only major thing missing is better SAM support, but this is something that mjr and maybe DJRobX would need to do as i do not have the time to completely get mjrs AT91 JIT implementation and rework it..

(that's also why there is still this annoying bug in the AT91 JIT code which leads to crashes on some setups with JIT enabled)

 

So, apart from that, this is all finished..

We try our best to give you all these requested features but you're right real life is coming in between. At the moment I try to rework parts of the UI. I think this will take a while until we can start a new beta phase but I think the waiting is worth it

Dto.

 

In addition to real life i'm also currently too much distracted with this: https://sourceforge....-nuon-emulator/ (as i found out some time ago that the source for this was released, i HAD to improve it to be able to finally play Tempest 3000 on my machine )

But, don't worry, i'll be back on VPX and VPM soon and finish up some of the lingering code for the next beta cycle.

[rothbauerw]

@toxie and @fuzzel

 

I came across an issue today with the primitive playfield.  It's actually there on all primitive playfield tables, but not noticeable on most.  What I'm seeing is the ball is falling through the playfield.  It appears that if the mass of the ball is 1 or greater, it self corrects itself so it's not really noticeable.  But if the ball mass is 0.8, like the powerball on twilight zone, it will continue to fall through the playfield and will eventually fall completely through.  It seems to be an issue mostly when the ball is at a standstill, like when cradling the ball on the flipper.  If it's rolling, the ball appears to stick pretty close to the correct "z".

 

It's pretty easy to replicate, but I can PM you a sample table if you need me to.

[bord]

+1

 

I would love to see this corrected. I've dealt with the ball mass 1/self correction situation rothbauerw is talking about and would love to see it fixed. It isn't as critical a problem as the powerball issue, but irritating nonetheless.

[toxie]

repro sample tables are always good to have for this, so please, yes, send them over..

[TerryRed]

 

 

pup player is it only for cab?
how do you put the video in the red frame ?
because I only play on desktop

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many examples of how PuP can be used for Desktop.

 

 

 

 

Video demos:

 

https://youtu.be/SoyAelbm5ZU

 

https://youtu.be/c3hfLE0u4FA

 

 

PuP-Packs on Top:

 

https://vpinball.com...fp-vpx-fx3-etc/

 

 

At the end of the day, you are still running a separate window on top of VPX running in Borderless Windowed mode... but it works fine within that capacity and is the only option you have for Desktop single screen use currently. (windows gets in the way of Z order for arranging windows of different apps, but if you use my pupinit batch files with the pup-packs...usually not needed... and follow instructions, most VPX tables and PuP-Packs will work fine. It's easy, really)

 

 

I only activated the bg in the pup player.
because I only need the bg. because my dmd is a textbox and the pictures are displayed with a EMreel.

example :

 

my pup bg is correctly configured (I can read the pup of tables made)
I have a burn5.mkv video that I placed in the root of the pupvideo folder.

I would like to launch it directly in the bg when launching a blank table, for testing.
what is the syntax in the  script?

I tried puplayer.play pbackglass, “burn5.mkv”

I have an unrecognized instruction error message

 

 

There are forums and FB groups specifically for pup questions and support.

 

Please don't flood the vp 10.6 beta thread with pup questions.

 

You could read my very old post about the basic commands here (many more features added since then):

 

https://vpinball.com...rt-tips-tricks/

 

It's much easier to simply call a DOF trigger (DOF 123, DOFPulse) and use a pup-pack to play a video from that DOF trigger, so you can do everything from the pup-pack editor instead of the table script.

 

Good examples are Scotty's tables for pup commands to play videos.... Jaws or MOTU for using simple DOF commands to trigger videos in a pup-pack.

 

There are also readme text files include with the Pinup Player install zip if I recall.

Edited by TerryRed, 27 January 2020 - 03:03 AM.

[mfuegemann]

Toxie, Fuzzle,

Got a request regarding ramp objects.

 

Is it possible to have an option to place a "top plane" or "roof" on top of the visible walls for a ramp? I want this feature as to make it easier to create the thin walls that appear on all tables. Currently, these thin walls need to be created with wall objects and you have to manually set the width of the walls by manipulating the many "points", and its time consuming to set them uni-formally and can also lead to minor irregularities that can cause ball wierdness. Even a standard thin wall on a table needs 4 "points". But I would prefer to use a ramp object rather than a wall object because you can dial in the exact width with a numerical value, and simply design that same wall with 2 points for a straight wall. IMO, the ramps are simply easier and more uniform to use for creating walls in general.

 

But in order to do this, I need to add that top plane for visual purposes. So is it possible to give us this option in the ramp properties? Another benefit of the more uniform walls and as already mentioned, there could be less ball weirdness compared to a more NON uniform wall object.

 

Thoughts?

 

If considering the top layer to be visible, please include the ramp start and ramp end, so we get a solid part.