3889 replies to this topic

[fuzzel]

If you play on a cabinet set the "Rotate for cabinet usage" in the video settings. The "Use DT" flag in the backdrop settings is just for testing and isn't saved with the table.

Edited by fuzzel, 24 May 2015 - 11:01 PM.

[Outhere]

go in the Video Settings under preference

[naboodiver]

Thanks guys... 

[SpykeDaddy]

Thanks fuzzel! With your estimate, I took advantage of the long weekend here in the US to take the cabinet apart. Hope to be done in a few weeks! I truly appreciate the quick response.

[ClarkKent]

Well I don't know how long you want to work on your upgrades but I think it will take some weeks maybe months before we release a final 10.0
 
 
@all: I need some help from real pinball owners. I'm working on the kicker physics at the moment and though it looks promising I don't know if it's too hard to actual hit the kicker at the moment. What I need is some videos or impressions how a ball behaves when it rolls to/over a kicker. The core question is how fast must be a ball when it jumps over a kicker and isn't catched by it?

I would really really like to help but none of my machines has visible kickers on the playfield. But as soon as I get access to one I''ll record some videos. But FP provides a very realistic behavior at kickers (although the physics is not the best).

[SpykeDaddy]

I have a Banzai Run with a kicker. I'll shoot some HD video tonight.

[SpykeDaddy]

I looked at all five of my pinballs and none have a rollover kicker that sits in a lane, but are tucked in a corner. So, here is a short video of one from the Banzai Run but I worry it isn't quite what you're looking for. If you're looking for some different interaction or different types of kicker videos, PM me and I can shoot any video you need from a Twilight Zone, No Good Gofers, Banzai Run and Space Shuttle.

 

 

Attached Files

•  kicker.mov   8.95MB   29 downloads

Edited by SpykeDaddy, 27 May 2015 - 02:17 AM.

[randr]

My nitro ground shaker has one would that be what your looking for?

Edited by randr, 27 May 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[randr]

Well did a quick video. Couple good near misses around 3:15-3:30 or so

 

https://youtu.be/FMAwageifHw

Edited by randr, 27 May 2015 - 03:20 AM.

[Shockman]

I think that is the same behavior VPX will exhibit automatically with such an object. The question I think he is asking, and no need for another video is, can you throw the ball as you were and hit it straight on too fast for it to drop in and what would the behavior be if you could (would it fly over, or hit the back bevel and hop out)

[randr]

I think it does that in video a couple times..

[ClarkKent]

It looks like (and it's logical) that the ball behavior is more intense the larger the funnel is. On old machines the kicker funnel is larger, on newer ones smaller. So there has to be a way to define the kicker funnel (size and depth).

 

Slow motion videos would be great!

Edited by ClarkKent, 27 May 2015 - 05:03 AM.

[fuzzel]

Well did a quick video. Couple good near misses around 3:15-3:30 or so

 

https://youtu.be/FMAwageifHw

Thanks for the video randr! I shows how the ball behaves when on low speed. The current implementation isn't perfect on that at the moment though it's better than any previouse physic reaction. But what happens if you have a kicker let's say in the middle of the playfield without any rubbers/walls around so the ball could roll over it. Will it ever hit the kicker if you fire it straight to the kicker or would it jump over it?

[toxie]

From my experience with my Ex-HSII (the tunnel shot has quite some space behind the kicker) it -can- roll over it.. But of course it can also just go directly in if the shot is weak enough..

Edited by toxie, 27 May 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[fuzzel]

Ok that means that a kicker won't catch the ball if you shoot straight from the flipper? Take the default table as an example, place a kicker in the middle area of the playfield under the kicker with the spinner. If you shoot the ball from the flipper to the new kicker, would it catch the ball or would the ball jump over it?

[toxie]

Given enough speed the ball will "fly" over the kicker without triggering. With less speed, theres a small chance that it will visit the kicker (or better: trigger its switch), but still be able to somehow leave it again. With even less speed it will rest in it.

(i guess its kinda the same as when playing golf/putting the ball, btw )

[gtxjoe]

If the ball is moving to fast, it should pass over the kicker. I did this for the VPX Dr Dude wip and the LOTR mod WIP. Tables betas are available. I don't have much experience with real pins so I can't comment what the velocity should be for it it not enter the kicker, but I set it to some value so the kicker doesn't catch every shot. You can see in dr dude that there are runways behind the Vuk kickers to allow a fast ball to run past the kicker before entering it. With LOTR entering the pops from below must be done by hitting it past the saucer

I know that a value of velocity > 15 was used for a table based on Marvel heroes and that was based on feedback by someone who owned the pin. Maybe you can make the break over velocity a user configurable parameter

These tables didn't have any ball redirection at low speeds implemented. But use of a magnet has been brought up in the past to simulate it. Someone may have done this already but I don't recall the table

Edited by gtxjoe, 27 May 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[fuzzel]

That's good to know. This behaviour is already working in VPX and will be available in the next revision. The only thing I'm working at is this ball wobbling when the ball enters the kicker with a lower speed.

[lio]

A lot of games have an area behind a kicker accounting for the shots that fly past the saucer (cftbl or lotr comes to mind) - also kickers in the open without any ball guides around them are rather hard to hit (totan).

 

A few ball / kicker interactions from Gottlieb's Big Shot - unfortunately almost none of them are direct flipper shots:

 

0:23 - enters

1:52 - enters

2:23 - rolls over

4:07 - bounces out

4:40 - watch closely, roll around the very edge

6:30 - misses twice

8:05 - fast shot, but not center

9:31 - bounce and enter

 

4:09 - enters

4:45 - rolls out

4:49 - rolls ins

6:22 - almost direct shot that swirls around a little but goes in

6:30 - rolls out

7:03 - rolls out

 

However it's one of those old style kickers with virtually no bevel around them - however the bevel probably makes overshooting easier not harder... it will just be more forgiving on (slower) balls that roll in from a not 100% accurate shot

[kiwi]

http://www.vpforums....967#entry244537
This video is very long (52 minutes), these are the first two interesting points that I found at 14:20 and 15:50.

 

Edit: at 36:30 and 36:42

 

Max

Edited by kiwi, 27 May 2015 - 02:03 PM.