41 replies to this topic

[garnel]

I've built two full size, 3 display tables with all the toys and SSF. Now considering making a VR setup, but before spending the $ and time/effort to get it working, want to get other opinions.

My questions are for those of you who have both cabinet and VR setups.

 

1. Which do you play most? Cabinet or VR.

2. If you had it to do over, would you still set up your VR system or be satisfied with your cab?

 

I've never used VR for anything before - never even tried one on.

 

Here's what I'm considering:

Meta Oculus 3

Cleveland Software Designs VR pinbox

 

Already have a spare pc with:

Ryzen 3600

Zotac GTX 1070 (may consider an upgrade here)

SSD

16 Gig

 

I would really appreciate your opinions - positive or negative.

Thank you,

garnel

 

 

[wiesshund]

Me, cab.

 

VR does nothing for me, regarding pinball.

Actually i find it extremely annoying

[lizard]

VR for me. I have a 3 screen full size pincab and a pinstubby for VR. Haven't even fired up the pincab since finishing the stubby and probably only would to play with friends.

The difference is night and day. You are actually standing at the machine and it looks just as it would in real life, make sure you have a decent PC though to really make it shine.

After playing VR the pincab is really noticible how flat the tables are even after years of pov settings trying to make it have some depth there is just no comparison VR all the way.

[Shadowsclassic]

Hmm, here is my thoughts.  I started out with Pinmame on the Pinball side and Quest 1 on the VR side.  I built a cab back in 2014 I think,  Broke two monitors in the process and then my HD crashed so I kinda dipped for a while.  I have gone through the Quest 1,2, and I'm currently about a month in on the Quest 3.  I do not have VP set up in VR, but I do have several comercial pinball games like Pinball FX2 that I really enjoy.    I love VPX, and now that I'm back in I'm eager to build a cab again.  I am still struggling to get back to speed on VPX and although I looked at VR for headsets, I am not ready to tackle that monster until I can get basic desktop VPX working 100%.   I love VR, I play it everyday and with the Q3 it is just amazing!! I will talk to you all day about Quest and VR.  I also want a PinCab in the worst way, even though I would like to set up a few tables in VR.    VR is great, but I find I play Pinball on it less and less and actually have not played any of the commercial apps since I started building up my VPX collection. VR is great for action games SPorts, FPS, Horror, Etc.  Pinball is okay, but it's still a VR simulation of a Computer simulation of a physical action on real world device. And there is not a lot of action there.  With a Pincab,  You have the physical/tactical cabinet, that you can play with friends and enjoy it together, and it just looks awesome setting there!    So to answer your question I totally recommend Quest VR for stand alone gaming, and if you happen to have one and a good PC for PCVR, then I would totally say slap VR pinball on there.  I would definitely not recommend buy all that hardware for the purpose of playing VR pinball!    If you love Visual Pinball I would say build a table and share your passion with your family and friends.  If you have the money they hey, get both, but the great thing about Quest is tha tit is wireless PCVR and stand alone VR, so you can start out as simple as a $200 Quest2 and see how you like it before you have to invest in a gaming rig. That is what I did and to tell the truth I really don't play that much PCVR as I can only play it at home or hire roadies to take all my hardware on the road with me.  I can toss the quest in the case and play anywhere.  And I will be building the cab here one day soon.     Hope that helps answer your question and as I said ask me anything I love to talk VR and also emulation.

[Urko]

If i could choose i would have kept with VR, its awesome , even though one needs to wear the headset ofc.

Viewing a pinball table in VR (with top hardware) is out of this world.

However i had a medical issue where i had to give it up.

Saying that i actually enjoy my cabinet now after a year, and i find it just as good enjoyment wise.

 

If i won the lottery though i would have a garage of REAL pinball tables , you cant beat the real thing overall.

I have owned one or two tables in my life and having the actual physical playfield and the ball going round just cant be beaten, but 

potentially lot of upkeep with them.

 

Editing here to add , as time progresses im finding a cabinet much more educational and hands on as far as setting it up and upgrading hardware/software etc and interaction with the tables than i ever did with VR.

Edited by Urko, 12 November 2023 - 08:44 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

If i won the lottery though i would have a garage of REAL pinball tables , you cant beat the real thing overall.

I have owned one or two tables in my life and having the actual physical playfield and the ball going round just cant be beaten, but 

potentially lot of upkeep with them.

 

I would not.
I would rent them.

 

Once upon a very long time ago, over 50 seasons, i found a pinball machine

It was complete

It was $100 dollars

 

It was wrapped in blankets and quickly wedged into the trunk of a 1972 Dodge Dart

 

I played it all of twice
But not for lack of trying

 

it has some 30,000 contacts and leaf switches
and a motor driven logic assemble, bristling with contacts

and light sockets

and a power  supply capable of felling the strongest man in the blink of an eye

and it had wiring, of the cloth insulated kind, that no longer had any color

and corrosion was every place because this thing had lived in an outside arcade beside LeSourdsville Lake winter spring and summer

 

 

2 games was the grand total of times that the thing worked completely

 

Too many things going wrong.

 

It was later sold for $150 to a retired coin-op tech, who probably fixed it and had it working swell
but for me, it was a fruitless adventure.

No manual, No schematics and no hope of any because it was a one off custom machine made specifically for LeSourdsville

And not a damned clue how it was all supposed to work.

 

SS is a lot simpler in that aspect, but those break too.
Logic boards go bad, caps fail, something fries, smoke exits the unit etc.

 

2 games was the grand total of times that the thing worked completely

[darquayle]

I have an old Xenon cab that I built to play traditional VP titles.  It is fully configured for this purpose and over the years I’ve upgraded the hardware multiple times.  The most recent change was in 2021 when I upgraded the computer to a high end system that included a 3080 GPU.  I now have that system configured for both traditional and VR table configurations.  I can switch back and forth by double pressing my magna-save buttons.  Since making this change, I have focused most of my attention on the VR system.  It is the most immersive way to play virtual pinball.  I’m currently using a Q3 and the wireless Virtual Desktop software.  Every single machine I have on it (over 200) plays very well in VR.  The plus side is that it is much more realistic and you can overlay your existing cabinet with the virtual one so it truly feels like you are playing the real game.  The down side is you lose all of the socialization of playing pinball.  Social pinball is always more fun on either the traditional VP software or on real machines.  But, if you are playing by yourself, it is very hard to beat the VR experience.

Edited by darquayle, 12 November 2023 - 03:10 AM.

[studlygoorite]

I have VR setup in my cab and enjoy playing both, cab/VPX when people come over and VR to show off what it can really look like, and my preference. Playing VR on the cab using the cab as a controller feeling the SSF can't be beat. You may want to upgrade that card too if you decide to go VR. Here is another thread about the same question  
https://www.vpforums...showtopic=47553

Edited by studlygoorite, 12 November 2023 - 02:34 PM.

[Urko]

 

 

If i won the lottery though i would have a garage of REAL pinball tables , you cant beat the real thing overall.

I have owned one or two tables in my life and having the actual physical playfield and the ball going round just cant be beaten, but 

potentially lot of upkeep with them.

 

I would not.
I would rent them.

 

Once upon a very long time ago, over 50 seasons, i found a pinball machine

It was complete

It was $100 dollars

 

It was wrapped in blankets and quickly wedged into the trunk of a 1972 Dodge Dart

 

I played it all of twice
But not for lack of trying

 

it has some 30,000 contacts and leaf switches
and a motor driven logic assemble, bristling with contacts

and light sockets

and a power  supply capable of felling the strongest man in the blink of an eye

and it had wiring, of the cloth insulated kind, that no longer had any color

and corrosion was every place because this thing had lived in an outside arcade beside LeSourdsville Lake winter spring and summer

 

 

2 games was the grand total of times that the thing worked completely

 

Too many things going wrong.

 

It was later sold for $150 to a retired coin-op tech, who probably fixed it and had it working swell
but for me, it was a fruitless adventure.

No manual, No schematics and no hope of any because it was a one off custom machine made specifically for LeSourdsville

And not a damned clue how it was all supposed to work.

 

SS is a lot simpler in that aspect, but those break too.
Logic boards go bad, caps fail, something fries, smoke exits the unit etc.

 

2 games was the grand total of times that the thing worked completely

 

Good idea renting.

[Tesla]

 

No manual, No schematics and no hope of any because it was a one off custom machine made specifically for LeSourdsville

And not a damned clue how it was all supposed to work.

 

 

Off topic, but ...

 

Without those, I would have to pass as well (life is short).

 

However, it if was something like a Star Trek - TNG machine from 1993, yeah ... I would still try. 

[Urko]

 

 

No manual, No schematics and no hope of any because it was a one off custom machine made specifically for LeSourdsville

And not a damned clue how it was all supposed to work.

 

 

Off topic, but ...

 

Without those, I would have to pass as well (life is short).

 

However, it if was something like a Star Trek - TNG machine from 1993, yeah ... I would still try. 

 

Great table, but you want to check out some videos of the underneath of the playfield.

[garnel]

Thanks to all for responding - it's much appreciated.

Here are my thoughts so far:

 

Pro's

- 3D View.

- I can sit in the comfort of my recliner and play it with a stubby!

- Another project to keep my mind on something technical during retirement (18 years and counting).

- I wear glasses and prescription lenses are available for the Oculus 3 - removing one of the Oculus 2 drawbacks.

- Keeps me busy, and out of beer joints and pool halls.

 

Con's

- Already have two full size virtual tables to keep going - it can be a royal PITA keeping them updated and debugging problems.

- Risk pinball burnout.

 

Right now I'm leaning toward going forward with a VR setup.

 

Thanks to studlygoorite for the link in his response.

 

On the topic of real vs virtual pinball. During Covid lockdown I rented a real  "Attack From Mars" for two months. After the first couple of weeks, discovered that I preferred playing my virtual cab.

The now world famous "Next Level Pinball Arcade" is just 20 miles from my house. They have almost every real pinball machine ever made You pay $20 up front and can play the machines all day for free - and not one out of order sign on any machine. I went there, paid the $20 and played different machines for about an hour and a half or so, got bored and went home. However, if I didn't already have my virtual cab's, probably would have stayed longer and made more visits.

The biggest drawback of a real pinball machine -  you are stuck with one table!

Edited by garnel, 13 November 2023 - 05:34 PM.

[fripounet]

homebrew pinball , it's much more rewarding than displaying pixels.

Edited by fripounet, 12 November 2023 - 07:32 PM.

[Tesla]

 

 

 

No manual, No schematics and no hope of any because it was a one off custom machine made specifically for LeSourdsville

And not a damned clue how it was all supposed to work.

 

 

Off topic, but ...

 

Without those, I would have to pass as well (life is short).

 

However, it if was something like a Star Trek - TNG machine from 1993, yeah ... I would still try. 

 

Great table, but you want to check out some videos of the underneath of the playfield.

 

 

Yes, I'm familiar with it. Instead, what scares me more is:

 

If I spent $10k for a nice Refurbished one now, but then in 5-10 years, I can't get a part for it. There are lots of unique parts, and then stuff like circuit-boards.

 

So, in 20 years ... the price for a "working used one" seems to have increased about 500%. They are appreciating more like cars than an old computer or arcade-upright.

Edited by Tesla, 13 November 2023 - 12:35 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

If I spent $10k for a nice Refurbished one now, but then in 5-10 years, I can't get a part for it. There are lots of unique parts, and then stuff like circuit-boards.

 

 

 

 

You have to make or repair the parts.
 

I cannot go buy Wizard of Wor parts, i have to repair or rebuild the stuff
Hence the reason all his electronics were cleaned repaired recapped gelled and sealed in anti static mylar and put away
and a MAME PC sits in his cab

 

And Galaga's

 

And Super Pacman's

 

etc

[Gravy]

There is a third option, replace one of the screens in your existing cab with an LG Cinema3D TV screen or other brand using the same 3D tech. Depending on your existing screen, it may be a step backward in resolution (1080P) and refresh rate (60hz) but it's pretty great in 3D and is full colour, just very slightly darker due to the tint of the glasses. It's also worth testing out anaglyph 3D, you lose some colour but get to keep all the features of your existing screen.

You'll need to find one secondhand as no longer made. There are also some 4K 3D screens, but they tend to start at around 49" so may need a larger cabinet build.
 

The other disadvantage with the polarised 3D screens is you lose half the resolution on one axis in 3D mode.

Edited by Gravy, 13 November 2023 - 11:23 AM.

[garnel]

 

 

No manual, No schematics and no hope of any because it was a one off custom machine made specifically for LeSourdsville

And not a damned clue how it was all supposed to work.

 

 

Off topic, but ...

 

Without those, I would have to pass as well (life is short).

 

However, it if was something like a Star Trek - TNG machine from 1993, yeah ... I would still try. 

 

If I had an economically recoverable, non working real pinball machine to resurrect I'd consider putting off the VR build and resurrect the table - even with no manual or schematic. The circuits are basic electronics 101 - things just look complicated because all you see is a rats nest of wiring, but the individual circuits are basic and easy to trace.  There's just a lot of them - no rocket science involved.

Edited by garnel, 14 November 2023 - 05:31 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

 

No manual, No schematics and no hope of any because it was a one off custom machine made specifically for LeSourdsville

And not a damned clue how it was all supposed to work.

 

 

Off topic, but ...

 

Without those, I would have to pass as well (life is short).

 

However, it if was something like a Star Trek - TNG machine from 1993, yeah ... I would still try. 

 

If I had an economically recoverable, non working real pinball machine to resurrect I'd consider putting off the VR build and resurrect the table - even with no manual or schematic. The circuits are basic electronics 101 - things just look complicated because all you see a rats nest of wiring, but the individual circuits are basic and easy to trace.  There's just a lot of them - no rocket science involved.

 

 

until it's an em

[garnel]

There is a third option, replace one of the screens in your existing cab with an LG Cinema3D TV screen or other brand using the same 3D tech. Depending on your existing screen, it may be a step backward in resolution (1080P) and refresh rate (60hz) but it's pretty great in 3D and is full colour, just very slightly darker due to the tint of the glasses. It's also worth testing out anaglyph 3D, you lose some colour but get to keep all the features of your existing screen.

You'll need to find one secondhand as no longer made. There are also some 4K 3D screens, but they tend to start at around 49" so may need a larger cabinet build.
 

The other disadvantage with the polarised 3D screens is you lose half the resolution on one axis in 3D mode.

Another disadvantage is I can't play it from the comfort of my recliner.

[freakin]

VR would be better, by far, if it wasn't uncomfortable to wear the headset.   3d, even if you have to lower the graphics to make VR run smooth, is hard to beat.   I think all we are really doing with our Vpins is trying to come as close to the real thing as possible, and VR gets you that extra step there.   I do find myself definitely getting more into the pinball if I have a VR headset on, where there is too much reality breaking playing on a Vcab that takes you away from the experience.   But without a ultra high end pc, you are sacrificing performance.   I guess the answer is, it's worth it to have both.   And definitely worth trying VR if you haven't already.