22 replies to this topic

[Brer Frog]

In the support thread for the Centaur DT table it says:
“You should try this one:
http://www.vpforums....topic=24946&hl=
It's the FS version but check the table information there you will find the desktop backdrop settings. This version is a much more advanced version of the table ”

Centaur_(Bally)_(1981)_VP921_FS_v2.1 (JimmyFingers - Fuzzel) [VP 9.x Cabinet FS]

I downloaded the FS table & changed it to a DT per the suggested settings. However there's a partial Centaur logo in the upper left corner of the screen when converting to DT. I looked in the Backdrop editing screen & could not find anything added to the backdrop.

I then took the Background image from the original DT version & used it in the new DT table in order to dress it up a bit. But that partial Centaur logo still lays on top of the background.

I looked around in the Image Manager & this logo appears to be called “dude”. I deleted it but now there’s a plain gray rectangular box on top of the background where the logo used to be. Even when deleted there is still something on top of the background. How can I delete the logo and/or gray rectangle?

 

Thanks
 

[jimmyfingers]

Delete the two walls called Wall19 and Wall19GIOff and edit the script to comment out the line "NFadeWim 1, Wall19GIOff".  You can zoom in via the editor to the top left and you'll see the two walls (stacked).  Just selected using the box / mouse drag for area method (or you can also selected via the actual "Edit>Select Element" option.  Just make sure afterward to also comment it out of the script. 

[Brer Frog]

Thank you for the reply.

 

I found Wall19 and Wall19GIOff when using the "Edit>Select Element" option.

However I cannot find them if I zoom in via the editor as mentioned. I clicked on all the Options on the right side of the Edit screen but I did not see the actual Wall images when looking at the Table or Backdrop in the Edit screen. Which Options should I have selected?

I’m not that familiar with all the things that make up a table, but after searching I’m guessing an Element must be different than the images that appear in the Edit screen. Would that be correct?

In an attempt to learn more about how tables are put together, how come this logo does not appear on the FS table but does on the DT version?
 

[hauntfreaks]

this isnt really any help with this table... but, if you want quality DT tables ready to rock and roll... check out the collection from Batch

 

http://www.vpforums....rch_app_filters[downloads][searchInKey]=files&search_app_filters[downloads][files][sortKey]=date

[batch]

Thanks for the advertising, Hauntfreaks !

[kruge99]

Thank you for the reply.

 

I found Wall19 and Wall19GIOff when using the "Edit>Select Element" option.

However I cannot find them if I zoom in via the editor as mentioned. I clicked on all the Options on the right side of the Edit screen but I did not see the actual Wall images when looking at the Table or Backdrop in the Edit screen. Which Options should I have selected?

I’m not that familiar with all the things that make up a table, but after searching I’m guessing an Element must be different than the images that appear in the Edit screen. Would that be correct?

In an attempt to learn more about how tables are put together, how come this logo does not appear on the FS table but does on the DT version?
 

 

Zoom out one or two clicks and outside the playfield area, at the top left corner is a wide, narrow wall.  These are the walls you are looking for.  They are not inside the playfield area.

 

We'd need JimmyFingers and Fuzzel to confirm "why" this wall is where it is.  Maybe they were working on some sort of hybrid fullscreen view??

 

Best Regards,

Kruge99.

[batch]

I got permission to MOD from Fuzzel (big thanks to him!) and I just uploaded my DT version of his table "Centaur_(Bally)_(1981)_VP921_FS_v2.1 (JimmyFingers - Fuzzel) 2.1"

[GSGregg]

Zoom out one or two clicks and outside the playfield area, at the top left corner is a wide, narrow wall.  These are the walls you are looking for.  They are not inside the playfield area.

I downloaded and converted using kruge99's settings, and couldn't find the walls either...that is, not immediately. After zooming out like he said, there was a thin gray line to the left and even with the back wall of the table that's the same length as the table width; magnifying it a few times made it easier to hit it with the cursor (pointer?) and get the Wall19/Wall19GIOff I.D. in Options. The wall/s are ~6.673 units thick, 138 units tall, and span the back wall as mentioned---and do not appear in the upper left corner for me as for Brer Frog.
 

In an attempt to learn more about how tables are put together, how come this logo does not appear on the FS table but does on the DT version?

The 'thin gray line' is separated from my table by 101.5625 VP units, which is far enough to keep it from crowding the desktop table, and in Full Screen, the side of the table hugs the display from front to back, so there's a sufficient gap; I wonder, though, if the JF settings (X scale 1.385 instead of kruge99's 1.05) may require that the wall/s be restored to their original location or just shoved farther away from the table?

 

EDIT: JF / Fuzzel desktop X-scale setting 0.75; not 1.385, which is the FS value

Edited by GSGregg, 10 April 2016 - 01:20 AM.

[batch]

These Walls (Wall19/Wall19GIOff) are used as backwall in the DT version but not in the FS one, so I think that it's the reason why they have been moved to this location

 

So I used them this way for my DT MOD (as backwall)

[GSGregg]

These Walls...are used as backwall in the DT version but not in the FS one

So they're like an optional accessory to be installed as / if wanted? I looked things over and couldn't decide whether I might get them in the wrong drawing order or something, Do you just lay them in at Y=0 and bottom height 40?

[jimmyfingers]

I can't remember for sure why they were left there but in FS it was not relevant as they were off screen.  The one main reason I know that at least I removed them from view was that they are not authentic to the machine (just like the original spacey / digital bumper sounds).  I wanted the table to look more authentic and as always I strive to be as close to the real machine as possible.

 

I normally clean things up and lock items down to a high degree so that when a table is opened it looks tidy and final.  These walls may have been left in as sometimes VP throws off rendering of the screen when objects are off the main screen and although normally this is a bad thing, sometimes a particular view may have been hammered out and not desired to be redone so an odd object is left off to the bottom or side to keep things in the same appearance without having to redo the view settings.  Walls to my knowledge though weren't the largest culprit of this and mainly ramp objects.  Some tables still to this day and with VPX are getting large discrepancies in the view settings because of the ramp objects people are using for side rails and the amount those objects extend either upward or downward from the main table area / dimensions.

 

I have about 6 WIPs now for VPX and spent a little time on this Centaur version fuzzel and I did so it will be out for VPX at some point in the future.  It's dimensions are way off as we did not change them from LH's version and in my VPX WIP I have corrected those (all my WIPs actually use correct dimensions).   Correctly dimensions is actually easier now in VPX for a few reasons especially considering selecting all table objects doesn't typically crash the editor any more and only takes a few seconds to think about it where previously you could leave your computer and go get a coffee in the time selecting all table objects actually returned control back to you in the editor with the items ready for processing / scaling / etc.

[Brer Frog]

Thank you everyone -

I see the wall now. However no matter where I click/select it only one wall name comes up in the Options > Wall19GIOff.

It looks like a single gray line with a thin dark gray border. If I Magnify too much & click on it then the line turn solid gray. IOW the dark gray border disappears & the Options indicate Timer instead of Wall. The end result is I cannot find Wall19. Is the medium gray one wall & the dark gray border the other wall?

While I can delete them using the "Edit>Select Element" option, I’d like to know what I’m doing wrong that I cannot see Wall19 in the Edit screen.

GSGregg -
You mentioned they do not appear in the upper left corner for you. Here’s a couple screen prints showing what mine looks like. The first is using Kruge99’s settings & the second is using the settings listed in Table Info for Centaur.
 

Attached Files

•  Centaur_1.jpg   95.95KB   3 downloads
•  Centaur_2.jpg   70.94KB   3 downloads

Edited by Brer Frog, 09 April 2016 - 10:30 PM.

[32assassin]

you can select both of the mentioned walls with the  Edit Select Element method

 

You do not need to zoom in or see them,  In the walls properties

remove the check  from  "Side Visible"

 

you will no longer see them and their is no need to edit the script.

 

or you can wait till I finish updating my VPX version

https://www.dropbox.... 1981).PNG?dl=0

Edited by 32assassin, 09 April 2016 - 11:13 PM.

[GSGregg]

...no matter where I click/select it only one wall name comes up in the Options > Wall19GIOff.

It looks like a single gray line with a thin dark gray border. If I Magnify too much & click on it then the line turn solid gray. IOW the dark gray border disappears & the Options indicate Timer instead of Wall. The end result is I cannot find Wall19. Is the medium gray one wall & the dark gray border the other wall?

While I can delete them using the "Edit>Select Element" option, I’d like to know what I’m doing wrong that I cannot see Wall19 in the Edit screen.

I think the dark gray border represents a second wall which, although it has the same dimensions as the first and occupies the same space, is drawn over it and blocks access (I'm unfamiliar with a lot of this, haven't used Edit > Select Element, and delete one item at a time with Edit > Delete); deleting the GIOff wall uncovers the plain wall.
 
I get ten levels of magnification, with the third being default; if I click to I.D. before enlarging, Options will retain the element name all the way through #10, but if I enlarge past #8 first, then click to I.D., I, also, get that odd switch to Timer I.D. I'm trying to recall what Centaur has that makes 'woods sounds'.....
 

GSGregg -
You mentioned they do not appear in the upper left corner for you. Here’s a couple screen prints.....

Thanks for the shots; my 4:3, 1024 x 768 display would understandably be a bit different from the widescreen shots, but I got suspicious and moved the VPINMame window...and there's the logo! So, we can uncheck Side Visible (I should have thought of that), delete the walls, replace them if the lighting effect is desired, or.....enlarge the score display to cover the logo!
 
 
My apologies to JF, fuzzel and anyone who may have been confused (see my Edit in post #8); I had settings scribbled in too many places, and got all dyslexic trying to organize.....

Edited by GSGregg, 10 April 2016 - 03:43 AM.

[Brer Frog]

I used "Edit>Select Element" and selected & deleted Wall19GIOff and Wall19.

After I deleted these the option to uncheck Side Visible was not there because the Wall Options were not visible. I could not figure out how to access the Wall Options so I selected another Wall which brought up the Wall Options & then I unchecked Side Visible.

But I got 2 script errors. One was line 1177 regarding “NFadeWim 1, Wall19GIOff” and the other was line 1979 regarding “BallStatus“.

I proceeded to edit the script & it appears all is OK, whether Side Visible is checked or unchecked.

Maybe I misunderstood but it appeared if you unchecked Side Visible then you would not have to comment out “NFadeWim 1, Wall19GIOff” in the script. Could the method I used to access the Wall Options & uncheck Side Visible been incorrect?
 

[GSGregg]

I used "Edit>Select Element" and selected & deleted Wall19GIOff and Wall19.

After I deleted these the option to uncheck Side Visible was not there because the Wall Options were not visible. I could not figure out how to access the Wall Options so I selected another Wall which brought up the Wall Options & then I unchecked Side Visible.

When you delete either wall, the Side that would be made visible or invisible is deleted with it, and the wall no longer exists (except in memory) so Options shows the name of the most recent prior selection. When you selected 'another Wall', the Side you then unchecked was part of just that Wall and had no effect on bringing back the deleted walls' Options panel. 
 
To bring them back, go to Edit and click Undo; the most recent deletion will be reversed, and then the one before that, etc. until all have been restored. If things don't behave, exit the table; before it closes, you'll be asked if you want to save changes to the table. Click No and the table will close, and next time you open it, it'll have its original settings. (Screenshot; just for practice)

 Close_only_table.JPG   132.18KB   2 downloads
 

But I got 2 script errors. One was line 1177 regarding “NFadeWim 1, Wall19GIOff” and the other was line 1979 regarding “BallStatus“.

Afraid I don't know about BallStatus, and staring at lighting code makes my learning disabilities kick back in
 

I proceeded to edit the script & it appears all is OK, whether Side Visible is checked or unchecked.

Maybe I misunderstood but it appeared if you unchecked Side Visible then you would not have to comment out “NFadeWim 1, Wall19GIOff” in the script. Could the method I used to access the Wall Options & uncheck Side Visible been incorrect?

I think that's correct. If the Walls are undisturbed, the only change affected by unchecking Side Visible is that the computer doesn't draw there and we see nothing but maybe what's on the surface behind it. All other operations are carried out uninterrupted.

 

[Brer Frog]

Thank you everyone for all the help.

 

GSGregg -

Initially (as of last night) I thought the walls had to be deleted and also unchecked in Side Visible. But it wasn’t possible to uncheck something that was not there anymore. That’s when I thought perhaps the Side Visible was a global setting. So I selected another Wall and unchecked Side Visible. I then selected & looked at several Walls & they had Side Visible unchecked. This made me think is was a global command.

I just now looked at several Walls & they had Side Visible unchecked. But the one that I used to uncheck & recheck (after I had deleted the 2 offending Walls) was checked just like I left it. IOW there are quite a few Walls with Side Visible unchecked, which unfortunately made me think this was a global command.

I know I played with yet another wall after I deleted Wall19GIOff and Wall19, but don’t recall which one. Being so many are unchecked I’ll never figure out which one has to be re-checked. I’ll just start over with a fresh table copy.

 

Again, thanks to everyone.
 

[GSGregg]

No go on just expanding the VPINMame (score display) window to cover the logo?

 

Of course, if you prefer the score elsewhere, the logo gotta go! 

 

(Your last statement just sunk in) Rather than re-download, have you tried clicking NO when exiting and being asked whether to save changes?

Edited by GSGregg, 10 April 2016 - 09:15 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

Guys, this is really a lot more simple then what's been going around here and the energy seemingly spent on this rather trivial matter is surprisingly high for what the task really entails.  Just select the two walls, delete them, comment out the line in the script or, as an alternative approach, select both walls and clear all "visible" checkboxes - done!  

 

If you've messed up the table because you didn't understand that deleting a wall would render it's options inaccessible and started changing other unknown wall objects options afterward, then simply - as you suggest / propose - download the table again and start from scratch with the view changes and these minor editor changes regarding those walls (I'm still trying to comprehend how / why you would think an object would still have options / properties of any kind available after deleting it - for any deleted item in any program for that matter).

Edited by jimmyfingers, 10 April 2016 - 09:58 PM.

[Brer Frog]

I did not try expanding the score display to cover the offending logo because I wanted to use the background from the original DT table in order to dress up things a bit. The logo did lay on top of the replacement background and covered up the pinballs in that corner. Unfortunately I don’t know how the score would have interacted.

Sometimes I click No when exiting but sometimes I click Yes if it seems like a good time to save changes. I had an clean FS table copy so I didn’t have to download again.

 

On a different Centaur note -
There seems to be a sound difference between the original DT table (Centaur_(Bally)_(1981)_VP916 1.2 ) and the FS version. The original DT has a reverb/echo sound when the ball hits the pop bumpers or kickers. It's kind of unusual & different. Is there a hidden setting to make the FS (or FS to DT conversion) table have this sound?