3 replies to this topic

[xantari]

Hi,

 

Very new to the forum and I was wondering if someone could point me to a tutorial that encompasses the following things:

 

     1.  Force Feedback complete wiring how-to for the non-electrical engineer

 

As I understand it, there are basically two ways to setup force feedback. Using Zeb's PacLED64 Virtual Output board or using an LEDWiz, with relays, diodes, etc.

 

The PacLED64 definately seems like the simplest option, but what I'm looking for is the alternative method which as I understand it involves relays, diodes, 12V dedicated power supplies, contactors, shaker motors.

 

There are apparently several things that must be taken into account with the alternatives such as:

 

1. LEDWiz method introduces about a 50ms delay in initiating the contactors

2. You must use relays. What is their purpose? Why can't the LedWiz turn it on and off by itself?

3. Apparently diodes are required somewhere in the chain or you get large amount of EMF that causes the LEDWiz to stop working quickly

4. Apparently there can be fire hazards if a relay or contactor gets stuck?

5. People have recommended putting some sort of safe guard when you open the pinball case that shuts off all the power to the force feedback components so you don't electrocute yourself? How does that work?

6. What sort of life span / maintenance are we talking about with all the force feedback devices, relays, LedWiz, etc

7. What is the recommended # of contactors, shakers, gear motors, knockers. I have heard 10 contactors is recommended as most of the DOF configs use that (what DOF config?)

8. What is the recommended placement of strobes, beacons and quantity of each

9. 12V or 24V contactors and recommended model #'s? As I understand it the wiring and power requirements differ depending on which route you go.

10. Anything else i'm missing :-)

 

     2. How to configure DOF. With an explanation of how it interacts with the virtual pinball games.

 

Sorry if all this has been asked before. I could only find sprinkling of information in bunch of different posts.

Edited by xantari, 16 December 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[xantari]

So I found maxxsinners Pinbal electrical 101 PDF from vpuniverse.

 

Anyone got any more?

Edited by xantari, 16 December 2015 - 06:10 PM.

[gtxjoe]

Good luck - here is some feedback

 

Zeb has the PACLED64 full setup and also the older Ledwiz 32 full setup.   I have an LEDwiz with one of zebs boosterboards and a bunch of RGB amplifiers for RGB leds, strobes, undercab led lighting, beacon and solenoids, no shaker or gear.

 

1. LEDWiz method introduces about a 50ms delay in initiating the contactors

- I would assume PACLED and USB relay boards would have similar delay.  I would be more concerned with anything adding VP flipper button delay

 

2. You must use relays. What is their purpose? Why can't the LedWiz turn it on and off by itself?

- Use of relays allow you use higher current draw toys.  If you draw more current then the Ledwiz/Pacled64 supports you will damage the Ledwiz/Pacled64. In general, RGB led bar draw 350 mA, Contactors/Solenoids vary a lot in current draw. Knocker and Shaker will draw over 500 mA.  Direct connection to LedWiz outputs should be limited to 500 mA. Direct connection to PACled64 needs to be less than 20 mA. So if an  item you are connecting to the output draws more current than supported, you need a relay or optocoupler or zeb booster board or RGB amplifier (for led related toys).  Zeb full kits use the booster boards approach.  

 

3. Apparently diodes are required somewhere in the chain or you get large amount of EMF that causes the LEDWiz to stop working quickly

- Edit:  Correct.  Updated based on Zeb's post below. Included with Zebs full kits and booster boards

 

4. Apparently there can be fire hazards if a relay or contactor gets stuck?

- Don't know enough to comment on this one...

 

5. People have recommended putting some sort of safe guard when you open the pinball case that shuts off all the power to the force feedback components so you don't electrocute yourself? How does that work?

- Use common sense here.  If you are working directly on anything electrical, you should unplug it.  

 

6. What sort of life span / maintenance are we talking about with all the force feedback devices, relays, LedWiz, etc

- Never saw a post saying my xxx is worn out and needs to be replaced

 

7. What is the recommended # of contactors, shakers, gear motors, knockers. I have heard 10 contactors is recommended as most of the DOF configs use that (what DOF config?)

- Create an account on the DOF config tool website and see what toys are supported in the pull down menu.  10 contactors setup is recommend nowadays.  1 shaker, 1 gear, 1knocker is all you need, I dont have these.  Dof Config Tool <--- google search this as we can't even mention the link on this forum

 

8. What is the recommended placement of strobes, beacons and quantity of each

Up to Personal preference.  back of playfield, top of backbox, behind the backbox.  I guess 2 strobes and 1-2 beacons..

 

9. 12V or 24V contactors and recommended model #'s? As I understand it the wiring and power requirements differ depending on which route you go.

No input here

 

10. Anything else i'm missing :-)

 

 

  2. How to configure DOF. With an explanation of how it interacts with the virtual pinball games.

DOF lets you connect ledwiz, pacled, usb sainsmart relays, etc which in turn connect to toys (rgb, solenoids, shakers, etc) and provides an interface to control them via VP table script or VPinmame

DOF Config Tool lets you define your Cab setup/configuration and has table ini files already defined for almost all VP tables.  So when a pinball flasher on the VP table goes off, a real RGB flasher in your setup will also fire.  When a bumper or sling fires on the VP table, the corresponding solenoid/contactor will fire.  You just need to setup an account and define your setup.  You do not have to actually modify each table to do this

Edited by gtxjoe, 17 December 2015 - 04:31 PM.

[zebulon]

On the pacled and ledwiz kits as well as the booster boards there is full diode protection installed onboard.  It still doesn't hurt to install remote diodes at the source (ie: on the solenoid, motor or contactor) but it's not necessary.

 

I wouldn't worry so much about a fire starting from a locked on output, but they do blow the outputs on the boards eventually when that happens and the coils on the solenoid will burn.

 

Pacled and ledwiz output kits have a header for a remote switch that is used as a night mode or kill switch.  It shuts down the triggering to the outputs on the feedback banks for the solenoids and motors but leaves the lighting outputs enabled.  As Joe stated, shut down the main power before attempting service to anything electrical or electronic and you'll be fine.

 

Never had a board come back that was worn out, a few blown up but never worn out from proper use.

 

12V or 24V contactors....really doesn't matter the make or model# but definitely make sure that the coil on the contactor is DC volts or you'll blow an output instantly.  A quick search on ebay will get you options on 12vdc and 24vdc contactors.