111 replies to this topic

[erzak]

I think the reason I was most annoyed is because for the first couple of weeks of trying to get nudging working, I didn't know that changes wouldn't take effect unless you quit and re-start VPX, so more annoyed with myself for more or less accomplishing nothing

[Thalamus]

 

@sniki : I didn't want you to run VP while doing the notepad test. I just wanted to know if there is some other input than a regular T coming from the bob.

Will try your AFM test and report back. I know that I haven't taken those lines out. Just check my script repo and you should see that I don't do that.

I tried it with notepad having focus and nothing appeared and I'm not sure what would do such thing if VP isn't running? Pinscape itself wont send any key presses.

 

 

This shows AFM. Unfortunately i struggled a bit shaking the table and holding the phone at the same time. I should add. My tilt bob is set quite sensitive.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/r6zfGtNLm7Rnn2Dg9

 

You see me getting a warning, (quick poweroff) , then on the next shake where I tilt I heard the bob hitting the metal several times so I was given a tilt correctly. When the ball is laying trapped like that it takes a bit more force to nudge it up the flipper so you recognize it than if it is laying flat.

[sniiki]

Thanks Thalamus! It's clear from the vid that you're not suffering from the same issue. I can record a clip later today just to show how obvious digital/fake nudge is on my cab when bob triggers.

[sniiki]

Here. First the shaking triggers simulated tilt bob and the "digital nudge from hell" makes the ball fly all over. After that I trigger mech tilt directly with 'T' and you see the table to tilt nicely, without digital nudge.

 

https://youtu.be/x_f58zk3Gds

 

 

[Thalamus]

 

Maybe you've got the unrealistic VP9 crap still on ?

[sniiki]

Nope, too easy :/

[Thalamus]

Well. I just checked because I saw your video. And if I press T, sure, it tilts but, no ball action.

[sniiki]

Yea the T demonstration was only to show that script is active and it won't shake with that command directly.
Running out of ideas 😣

[Thalamus]

Try to run Diview.

[sniiki]

Slow reply, been busy with work. For what I should use Diview? I can't get it to record keyboard unless the window is active.

I tried to completely disable tilt by deactivating 'Tilt sensitivity' in settings but it didn't make any difference. Still bounces and tilts like this checkbox settings wouldn't have any effect at all.

[Thalamus]

I want to you to see where the excessive reading is coming from. When I press eg. T. I get a "normal" value - curious to what you are getting. I'm not able to test what I get right now tough. Maybe you see readings coming in all the time from something else attached ot your computer and only when you nudge it goes over the limit ? DiView shows you direct-input values and since this is based "over/on" directx all input that you see is valid one way or other. Long time since I ran that tool myself. But, I believe that I didn't see any data as long as I kept the cab running without touching it.

[sniiki]

Didn't see anything weird when shaking the cab. No keypresses are sent either.

Dont know what you mean by getting normal value when T is pressed? How would keyboard T be affecting Pinscape analog values? I don't believe it's the analog value sending ball all over. I think it's still the fake nudge that for some reason kicks in in my system even with the NudgePlugIn script. Like mentioned earlier, if I comment out from table script those Nudge lines, everything is fine.

 

I'll try this again on my primary PC now that I got a replacement GPU for it.

 

Edit: Ok well unlike I recalled it does the same on my other PC 

Also verified that it's not the Mechanical Tilt causing this bouncing but the CenterTilt ('space' by default) the is sent when simulated bob triggers (script code Nudge 0) but the question is why it wont cause ball to bounce on Thalamus's system.

No-one else is replying here. Would appreciate if anyone else with analog nudge could try this out and (referring to the video posted earlier) check the behavior on their setup.

 

btw. Thalamus, are we testing the same Attack From Mars ? I'm talking about g5k 1.1 version. Just checked your script repo and your AFM script is all different.

Edited by sniiki, 05 November 2018 - 05:58 PM.

[Thalamus]

Yes. It was the g5k version.

[sniiki]

Once again returned searching the reason for this behavior and found that it's because I didn't put NudgeTilt script to Tables folder but kept it in Scripts folder.

I know the script help tells me to put it in Tables folder but then again several topics in forums say that nowadays every script should be in Scripts folder and that they should work just fine in there. I also remember that originally I had this script in Tables folder but some tables didn't like scripts in there (can't remember now which ones).

So, which one is the correct place today and why doesn't it work properly from Scripts folder? Loaded in wrong order?

[Thalamus]

All my scripts are in the correct folder. Scripts. Including the NudgePlugIn.vbs that is renamed from NudgePlugIn_mjrAccelAndTilt.vbs.

Edited by Thalamus, 13 January 2019 - 08:42 PM.

[sniiki]

Could @toxie or some other dev shed some light what's going on in my setup? If I have the same issue on two systems and if it's not issue on Thalamus's system?

Really, if I have the renamed NudgePlugIn.vps in tables folder everything is fine. If I leave it in scripts folder I get the damn "keyboard nudge" during warning/tilt.

 

@Thalamus, did you have real tilt bob or are you using virtual?

Edited by sniiki, 19 January 2019 - 05:52 PM.

[sniiki]

Was reading VP VR thread and there this same issues was discussed. Seems 'T' needs to be assigned to something else in VP and VPMKeys script.

I somehow understood from all this discussion that it specifically needs to be 'T' and nothing else and we only fiddled with Center nudge keys...

 

Is this mentioned in some wiki / guide? If so, I've missed it. Anyway... solved... again. Hopefully finally this time.

[Thalamus]

Odd. I have my tilt plumb assigned to T and never touched vpmkeys.

[sniiki]

And once again for some reason it's giving me the bang back nudge   . Might be that I haven't just paid attention to it for a bit so dunno at what point it arrived or it might even be I just thought it got fixed as sometimes I can nudge a warning several times without noticing it as if the ball is in "air" / not touching anything but playfield this extra nudge can't reach it and bounce it all over. My cab is still running old 10.6 3660 beta so need to update but don't see any changes on this topic in newer build releases.

 

I tried to ask from some of the devs but for some reason they weren't interested so I tried to dig some more.

 

First, I tested with a real bob too and noticed that simulated bob was still tilting my machine eventhought 'Tilt sensitivity' was disabled and set to zero. I then searched Windows registry and found two keys 'TiltSensitivity' and 'TiltSensValue' which both have the value entered in VP preferences but even if it's set to zero, 'TiltSensitivity' in registry still had old value (960 in my case). I zeroed it in registry and that disabled simulated tilt bob properly. I also went through VPX10.5 3750 build source code and found a comment pintable.cpp 

// bug!! If tilt sensitiivty is not set, it's supposed to disable analog tilting, see KeysConfigDialog.cpp

Also in plumb.cpp there was 

// Check if tilt is enabled.
      if (gPlumb.tiltsens > 0.0f)
      {
         // Flag that we tilted.
         gPlumb.tilted = 1;
      }

I also searched for the reason for this extra nudge in source. In plumb.cpp and in pininput.cpp there's

int plumb_tilted()
{
   if (gPlumb.tilted)
   {
      gPlumb.tilted = 0;
      return 1;
   }


   return 0;
}

void PinInput::tilt_update()
{
   if (!g_pplayer) return;


   const int tmp = m_tilt_updown;
   m_tilt_updown = plumb_tilted() ? DISPID_GameEvents_KeyDown : DISPID_GameEvents_KeyUp;


   if (m_tilt_updown != tmp)
      FireKeyEvent(m_tilt_updown, g_pplayer->m_rgKeys[eCenterTiltKey]);
}

So it'll send CenterTiltKey every time the simulated bob triggers. To me it seems quite obvious everyone using simulated bob is getting that extra nudge then? I just wonder why there's no-one responding in this thread
 

Edited by sniiki, 15 July 2019 - 06:50 PM.

[Thalamus]

I think the best guy to answer this is either @mjr or @djrobx

 

They had discussion about nudge and timing down to the tee in a thread about a year ago. Talked to Rob about my only "problem". Stern tables is very lenient when it comes to my mechanical tilt. I've tried to read the code of sam.vbs - but, I was not able to get the full picture. Well, modern Stern' are a bit weird in the real world too so what do I know. I just don't find it realistic. I don't fully understand your problem I must admit. When you say Bang Back nudge - what do you mean by that exactly ? Maybe we're not using the same terminology ?