46 replies to this topic

[Flying Dutchman]

There's even an FS UVP uploaded!

Because of the activity on the Backglass during gameplay there could be a 'stutter experience' indeed.

Cheers,
FD.

Edited by Flying Dutchman, 11 October 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[maceman]

@ Rob- The flippers seemed a tad weak on this end and those settings i showed work great. Did you even try them??


@ FD- Will you be making a "grill" version for us 2 screen people?

Thanx both for your work!
Maceman

Edited by maceman, 11 October 2012 - 08:33 PM.

[mamemaster]

Would love to see this as a B2S as mentioned......

[rob046]

@ Rob- The flippers seemed a tad weak on this end and those settings i showed work great. Did you even try them??
Maceman

Yes I did, it just seems like too much for me & maybe not the right way to go about speeding things up, hence my comment. Also I want you to keep in mind that I'm using JF's flipper tap routine, which means that things like the return speed you gave don't even have an effect on the flippers because its controlled in the code. On top of that, the flipper tap routine can be a little bit sensitive to major settings changes, which again is another reason why I wanted to give my own thoughts on how to speed things up.

Did you try my suggestion? I gave you a way to increase speed but with only changing as little as 1 setting while maintaining the general intended feel of the physics, you can gain all the flipper speed you could want through doing what I said, but with doing it the way you did it, it is kind of like pissing into the wind (sorry but I couldn't think of a better way to describe it!). Just trying to help & give my thoughts on what is best for this table, which can differ from what people would normally do on most tables to achieve flipper speed. Just wanted to let that be known. If somebody goes slapping on settings they like from somebody else's table, it could cause problems. Settings are every bit as flexible as they are on any other table, but they can just be a little different.

I could explain in detail why I am suggesting what I am, if you want. Just know there is a reason for it. Really every setting I put on a table is there for a reason, & often times they kind of work together as a team to achieve the results I want. You don't want to throw off that balance too much which is why the way you might want to make adjustments here could differ from other tables.

Hopefully what I'm saying makes sense. Of course I don't think the flippers are too weak at all. I've played this table a bunch IRL, own my own pins from this era, & even watch some video on the gameplay, so I know I'm in the right ballpark with the feel of this table IRL, on average. Every single shot can be cleanly made as things are, at least on my system. But what I really like about the physics is that if you don't hit a ramp shot clean enough, it isn't going to make it all the way up. If you nip a post or something on the way up, you might lose enough steam to where you don't make the shot, just like in real life. Whereas on many VP tables, sometimes the ball can hit like 5 objects & still fly up a ramp at full speed. IRL, it doesn't take much for a ball to lose its head of steam.
So while you can feel free to speed things up, just know that if you do, the table can still be fun but maybe not as realistic. That is all I was trying to say here, as well as giving what I feel is the best way to achieve more speed to those who want it. Take it or leave it though.

Edited by rob046, 11 October 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[rob046]

Hmm. I just noticed that LH didn't seem to install the B2B collision code properly. I'm working on sorting that out then I'll upload a new version. Another thing I did was shorten the flippers a bit. I finally got around to creating a rough formula to determine accurate flipper sizes for all tables.
So it will be both more accurate & a little more challenging since balls are more likely to go SDTM.
Also, I noticed the ball lock sometimes has issues with the ball registering, which can cause problems. Got that fixed.
Since I gotta do a new version, if anybody else has noticed any bugs other than these, please let me know before I upload the new version possibly tomorrow.

[maceman]

Sounds cool! I appreciate your comments. I was wondering if you had used JF's tweaks, so what you say makes sense as i understand what you mean that the code will affect things.
Okay, I will try what you suggest, tommorow Today was install day and i just finished installing the latest Totan and JP goes and uploads an enhanced version
I am at 322 tables now and it is very difficult to maintain all these with updates and such

Thanx for your work and explanation. Each and every new release seems to raise the bar higher and higher... and i am trying my best to implement these tweaks in my own HM project, which i hope you guys will enjoy once released!

Cheers,
Maceman

[rob046]

Maybe wait until I get this update in today or tomorrow then, before messing with it. I can't keep up with all the tables either. I've got tables I really want to play that were released 2 or 3 years ago that I still haven't got around to playing. I figure I'll get to them eventually & catch up.

[rob046]

I think I need some help. I've got an update here with some upgrades & fixes. One of the main things is that I got the B2B collision working, & upgraded parts of the code to get it working. However, 1 small but annoying issue has popped up after the changes.
When the ball shoots from the PF cannon (cannonkicker) & lands into the broadside kicker (center shot, sw55), I get a strange "object requied" error. However, nothing actually seems to screw up. If I hit OK on the error, things seem to continue normally.

The B2B definitely seems to be working properly, but this is the new version of the code with destruk's addition (as seen on JP's EATPM). Not sure if that matters. I've looked over the code here like 100 times, trying various things, & whatever is going on just seems over my head. I've done everything I can think of. I'll attach the code. I think this code would work normally with the latest release. If not I can also attach a link to the new version. I've spent enough time messing with these updates over the last day or 2 that I hate to give up on it now!

Attached Files

•  BR_code.txt   44.92KB   10 downloads

Edited by rob046, 14 October 2012 - 04:17 AM.

[maceman]

Does the error code give a line?

Anytime i've seen that error, it is because the script is pointing to an object on the table that is either named different than the script or missing altogether. Without a line (red) it is hard to try to pinpoint.

Someone will be able to help better....

Maceman

[rob046]

No, it doesn't point at any line. sometimes it just says "object required" or "object required 0". No red line. Like I said, it isn't even really a normal error because the game continues to play fine once you hit OK. Strange, I never really seen this before.

[jimmyfingers]

Hey Rob,

Found the problem, change this line

cannonKicker.createBall

with this one

vpmCreateBall cannonKicker

With the new / revised B2B code from Destruk any manual kickername.createball function calls have to be changed to vpmCreateBall kickername. The exception is only with things like the vertical popper code where the ball is being created and destroyed for the popper visual without coming into play and doesn't need the CreateBallID / NewBallID followed by ClearBallID commands. I first noticed the vertical popper element when adding B2B to some other tables including I500 and am only mentioning here so, when you look through the script and see that there is still actually a .createball entry, that it's understood why that one can be allowed.

Essentially the vertical popper ball animations are not being tracked and the object destroying it is also not doing a ClearBallID so doesn't get the missing object (the whole process is essentially exempt / removed from processing) and is not a concern when only used for visual aspects.

[rob046]

Hey Rob,

Found the problem, change this line

cannonKicker.createBall

with this one

vpmCreateBall cannonKicker

With the new / revised B2B code from Destruk any manual kickername.createball function calls have to be changed to vpmCreateBall kickername. The exception is only with things like the vertical popper code where the ball is being created and destroyed for the popper visual without coming into play and doesn't need the CreateBallID / NewBallID followed by ClearBallID commands. I first noticed the vertical popper element when adding B2B to some other tables including I500 and am only mentioning here so, when you look through the script and see that there is still actually a .createball entry, that it's understood why that one can be allowed.

Essentially the vertical popper ball animations are not being tracked and the object destroying it is also not doing a ClearBallID so doesn't get the missing object (the whole process is essentially exempt / removed from processing) and is not a concern when only used for visual aspects.

Well I definitely wasn't close to figuring that out on my own! Because I was even looking at EATPM & JP actually used the regular "createball" in that code, & so I didn't think that was an issue, but like you say he used it in a VUK, so it works in that case. & I even tried the vpmcreateball on this too, which didn't work, but I guess I coded it wrong (like cannonkicker.vpmcreateball). I better bookmark this post so that I don't forget in the future!

Thanks for the help.
Now, the update is ready!

v1.3 - B2B collision now working. Rubber hit sounds added. Fixed locks occasionally not registering. Improved a couple sections of code. More accurate flipper size, they are a little shorter now. Lamp interval set to 40 (was 75). Few minor physics tweaks.

Edited by rob046, 15 October 2012 - 02:29 AM.

[ressof]

Hi

Great table, but I think the plunger is to slow. When I press the Enter key it feels like it take ages for the plunger to be pulled back. Is there a setting to speed it up?

[rob046]

Hi

Great table, but I think the plunger is to slow. When I press the Enter key it feels like it take ages for the plunger to be pulled back. Is there a setting to speed it up?

I did this on purpose. When plungers pull back at a fast speed (like most tables), it is nearly impossible to hit skill shots. This is more like in real life where you slowly pull the plunger back, pick your spot, & let it go. You could probably speed it up maybe a little bit & still have some success though. In the editor, it might take a few minutes to properly speed it up. Because what you need to do is speed up both the visual plunger & the physical plunger, & have them pull back at roughly the same speed so that it doesn't screw up your aiming. To speed up physical release speed, simply click on the plunger & increase the pull speed. Then to speed up visual speed, you need to set the PTIME timer lower. This can be a pain to match these up (though if you set plunger to visible, move it, then start the table, you can see both VP's Plunger & the alpha plunger to see if you've synced them up).

A good way to do this would be to do some math. Like if you want the plunger sped up 2x as fast, then you simple double the VP plunger pullback speed. Then you cut the PTIME timer in half. I think that will keep things synced up.

[DreamTrap]

my ball got stuck i think i seen it enter around here somewhere


and this is where it got stuck

[rob046]

Not sure what is causing that. I must have hit that same shot 100+ times while testing this table, never once had that happen. It looks like it might be hung up on that red plastic, but that wall isn't even collidable. & there is roughly 70 units of space in that area between the ramp & that wooden platform, & so the ball (not even 50 units) should definitely not be getting stuck. But then again I don't know what else it could be.

Do you know if this was a real slow shot that got stuck? Normally the ball flies here with a lot of speed, & so if it is moving slow maybe that caused it to get hung up. Have you been able to make it happen again? Just 1 time? One thing you could maybe try is to knock a unit off the wooden platform. Take the top height from 31 to 30.
Has anyone else ever had the ball get stuck in this ramp/loop shot? Even going all the way back to LH's original versions, because again nothing is really changed in that exact area.

[DreamTrap]

it's only ever happened once and i dont know what speed the ball was going the 1st time.

[marcdaddy]

Guys is there no Flasher or Led support, Most tables i have downloaded everything work fine right out of the gate. Im kinda of a noob is there something i need to do in the script?

[rob046]

Guys is there no Flasher or Led support, Most tables i have downloaded everything work fine right out of the gate. Im kinda of a noob is there something i need to do in the script?

I would like an answer to this as well. I know very little about that sort of thing, as I work from a desktop. But most of the code is the same as before, as LH had it. If there is something I could of added to fix this, somebody please let me know, & just keep in mind with any FS I release, that it is not my native play type.

[darquayle]

Has anyone else had problems getting a db2s screen to work with this table?  It says there is a controller error when launching.  No issues when running with UVP.  I have over 160 db2S working tables.  This is the only one I can't seem to figure out.

I've replaced my ROM (BR_L4).  Cleared my rom registry.  Tried other db2s backglasses.  Verified my set controller line is accurate:    Set Controller = CreateObject("b2s.server")

Any suggestions?