25 replies to this topic

[TedB]

Hi,

 

I have had problems with stutter on my cabinet since I bought it. I was able to improve it but never able to solve it. My NVIDIA driver settings are all lowest and all settings in VP aimed at performance.

Alpha ramp accuracy setting in VP is lowest. I don't use B2S for any DMD tables.

 

My set up.

 

AMD Athlon II X2 Dual Core 3.0GHz

4GB RAM
GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1024MB (separate Geforce card for my backglass)
Gigabyte 870 A-UD3 Mainboard

 

The VP devs have done an amazing job and some tables that were basically unplayable a year ago because of stutter are now playable.

Still there are some tables that introduce stutter that I would like to solve and also like to include B2S backglass for my DMD tables.

 

I had an interesting chat with Herweh regarding his coming Apollo 13 release. He let me test the table on my cab and it played pretty good, without noticeable stutter even during the 13 ball multi-ball. I was pleasantly surprised that my cab could handle it. According to Herweh the FPS on the table - average 490 and lowest 350 were pretty high and not mediocre at all.. Fuzzel also told me my set up should be fast enough.

 

Funny thing is that The Shadow from Aaron James has a higher FPS than the Apollo 13 table >600 but still a lot of stutter - even worse than the very demanding CV platinum that is recently released. http://www.vpforums....ic=22503&page=1

 

I wouldn't mind adjusting some tables to make them run better on my cabinet or even change some of my hardware, but then I would like to know what to replace - hardware or adjust - software. Of course a software solution is preferred.

I am also interested what FPS other folk have on their setup for a table like CV Platinum and how it plays then - with or without B2S. It might be interesting to compare setups and by comparing I might be able to see where my problem is.

FPS for CV platinum is average 334 and during multi-ball and high activity 150-300. Lowest I have seen was 109.
 

Some other details:

 

- My NVIDIA driver is 270.61, more recent drivers cause my system to hang - a known issue that more members have (e.g. htamas)

- Overclocked my system before but ran into flipper stutter issues after a while so now back to default. Overclocking was not really noticeable helping anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[koadic]

The only thing I see in your setup that may be an issue is the amd processor... I had a x3 3.4GHz (460 Rana) in the first setup I had when building my cab, and the intel i5 3570k I have in there now is much better performing, but you could probably get away with a dual core i3 2120/3220/3225/4130.

[bosvrucht]

i have similar setup (even have the exact same motherboard). With the recent 9.2 beta releases, this hardware should be enough for 99% of current tables, even with db2s.

 

The question is: are you using a ledwiz. If so: then switch to DOF. This solved all my stuttering issues.

 

This may also be the reason apollo13 ran great:  you probably did not have a entry in your .ini file, so ledwiz was off for apollo13

Edited by bosvrucht, 13 December 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[LoadedWeapon]

From the talk about doing drivers it looks like you talking about xp.. why not try windows 7?

[Practicedummy]

I'm with Koadic on this. I had problems with VP when I had an AMD CPU. When I switched to Intel, the problem disappeared.

[LoadedWeapon]

Yea I know some people prob don't want to hear that because they would have to change the board and cpu but I agree I run an i5 chip with no problems..

Edited by LoadedWeapon, 13 December 2013 - 05:14 PM.

[toxie]

Also playing around with the pinmame settings can be interesting: try switching the direct draw and/or direct 3d settings in the registry for a game that stutters.

Unfortunately for the other options (throttle, frameskip) to work there would have to be some changes in the source, but i already noticed the pinmame devs about this.

 

Then intel vs amd as already mentioned and also the main RAM and GFXRAM speed, and PCIe can be a factor, depending on the table.

 

Also the lamp/timer update speed can be a source for stutter on some tables.

 

 

EDIT: as for FPS, they don't tell you anything about stutter, as the average VP table might just render one/some single demanding frame(s) that take 10x longer than the others and that's also where some stutter can come from. And the FPS counter will simply average these away.

This is actually the cool thing about tables like CV, these will simply have a higher demand/rendering time for the average frame, but thus also avoid these evil peaks for some frames.

Edited by toxie, 13 December 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[DJRobX]

Just yesterday I found that moving my backglass display to the same adapter as the playfield gets rid of stutter when Aero is enabled in win7.    I had to do this for Future Pinball tables to play smoothly with the backglass enabled (I get black squares all over with Aero off).    You might try switching your backglass display just to see what effect it has. 

 

I have an i3 and everything is nice and smooth in VP.

[htamas]

No such problems here with a quad-core AMD Phenom II, so such a blanket statement seems to be a bit far-fetched

The above setup looks pretty good, although I noticed better gameplay when I switched from a GTX 550Ti to a GTX 560 (both with 1 GB memory). Still, that hardware should be powerful enough to run pretty much any table without issues.

 

I have no performance problems with the latest Shadow (I think you meant from Teppotee because I'm not aware of a version from Aaron). It runs fine with no stutter, alpha ramp accuracy at about 60%. Just played a game to see the average FPS and mine is close to 900, even during multiball and with a lot of flashers active. I also use my dB2S backglass with it of course.

 

CV Platinum average FPS is about 390 and I don't see this drop even during multiball, maybe 5 FPS or so. I run rosve's B2S. I get some microstutter with this table on occasion (running VP 9.2 rev.780), but it is not bad, certainly isn't a big deal. With an earlier VP 9.2 revision, I did have a couple of cases when I lost balls due to stutter though, but I don't see them now.

[LoadedWeapon]

Sorry if it sounded like I was saying amd was the prob because I wasent. I have no clue I haven't tested an amd system. Just stating that I know the i5 works without problems. And it could be his video card.I run playfield and backglass off a 660 2g card and dmd on a 610 2g card.. when I tried all 3 on one card it gave slight studder problems.

[PilzTom]

I'm running DMD, backglass and playfield all on a Ti650 SuperClocked (1GB) - works fine for almost all tables. Only new STTNG (GI version) stutters slightly. I first tried to use the i5-internal GPU for Backglass or CPU - but there were lot of stutters even if I disabled B2S and ran DMD on i5 and playfield on ti650. So maybe there is a general (config?, driver?) problem using more than one GPU?

During testing I also had a big performance boost when decreasing resolution of backglass monitor.

[toxie]

multiple GPUs are always a problem, especially if from different vendors and/or different hardware generations.

so i would recommend sticking with one vendor if possible.

this is even worse as VP is still DirectX7, thus also potentially more prone to compatibiliy problems of the drivers (i.e. these will fallback to some slow solution).

[koadic]

Another thing to test to see if you can get better performance (if it is still an issue, haven't seen it brought up in awhile) is to check if the table runs better with the dmd on the same screen as the playfield, as it may help to put the dmd on the same card as the playfield... I know many people put the dmd and backglass on the same card, but I personally run with dmd and playfield monitors on one video card, and put the backglass on it's own (when I have my cab running that is).

[Aaron James]

No such problems here with a quad-core AMD Phenom II, so such a blanket statement seems to be a bit far-fetched
The above setup looks pretty good, although I noticed better gameplay when I switched from a GTX 550Ti to a GTX 560 (both with 1 GB memory). Still, that hardware should be powerful enough to run pretty much any table without issues.
 
I have no performance problems with the latest Shadow (I think you meant from Teppotee because I'm not aware of a version from Aaron). It runs fine with no stutter, alpha ramp accuracy at about 60%. Just played a game to see the average FPS and mine is close to 900, even during multiball and with a lot of flashers active. I also use my dB2S backglass with it of course.
 
CV Platinum average FPS is about 390 and I don't see this drop even during multiball, maybe 5 FPS or so. I run rosve's B2S. I get some microstutter with this table on occasion (running VP 9.2 rev.780), but it is not bad, certainly isn't a big deal. With an earlier VP 9.2 revision, I did have a couple of cases when I lost balls due to stutter though, but I don't see them now.

Yes, this was my friend Teppotee's mod, I helped only with new apron and minor physics.
So many tables/mods I know it's hard to keep track sometimes.

[TedB]

Thanks all for your suggestions! See my comments below.

 

The question is: are you using a ledwiz. If so: then switch to DOF. This solved all my stuttering issues.

 

No, I don't have a ledwiz

 

From the talk about doing drivers it looks like you talking about xp.. why not try windows 7?

 

Might be worth a shot..

 

try switching the direct draw and/or direct 3d settings in the registry for a game that stutters.

Also the lamp/timer update speed can be a source for stutter on some tables.

 

Tried that before, and just tried again for CV to be sure, but didn't have an effect or at least not noticeable. It didn't improve the average FPS.

 

 

Also the main RAM and GFXRAM speed, and PCIe can be a factor, depending on the table.

 

I have tried to overclock my GPU in the past, that didn't help at all. Haven't tried overclocking my RAM before is that what you are suggesting?

 

 

I have no performance problems with the latest Shadow (I think you meant from Teppotee because I'm not aware of a version from Aaron). It runs fine with no stutter, alpha ramp accuracy at about 60%. Just played a game to see the average FPS and mine is close to 900, even during multiball and with a lot of flashers active. I also use my dB2S backglass with it of course.

 

Your setup works a lot better than mine. I have been thinking about investing in a better graphics card like you did, but it seemed not a very major upgrade so still have a risk it will not help too much. Based on the comments I assume going for an i3, i5 or even an i7 will have a bigger impact.

 

I run playfield and backglass off a 660 2g card and dmd on a 610 2g card.. when I tried all 3 on one card it gave slight studder problems.

 

Me too, I have playfield an backglass on a separate (both NVIDIA) graphics card.

 

 

Another thing to test to see if you can get better performance (if it is still an issue, haven't seen it brought up in awhile) is to check if the table runs better with the dmd on the same screen as the playfield, as it may help to put the dmd on the same card as the playfield... I know many people put the dmd and backglass on the same card, but I personally run with dmd and playfield monitors on one video card, and put the backglass on it's own (when I have my cab running that is).

 

Tried that, unfortunately didn't help.
 

 

 

Yes, this was my friend Teppotee's mod, I helped only with new apron and minor physics.
So many tables/mods I know it's hard to keep track sometimes.

 

 

Sorry about that, I only checked and registered who uploaded the table. Indeed Teppotee was also involved in the table I referred to.

Edited by TedB, 13 December 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[fuzzel]

I can recommend to switch to Win7 64bit. I have a complete amd system in my cab and I had stutters under WinXP. After I switched to Win7 64bit everything runs butter smooth. I guess the drivers are more optimized for 64bit systems today but because I'm using a Radeon HD7770 this can be different on your side.

[TedB]

I can recommend to switch to Win7 64bit.

 

 

[PilzTom]

Only bad thing with Win7 is that Nvidia FXAA does not work (but you can use all the different 'real' AA-modes)

or use the VP-built-in-FakeAA

Edited by PilzTom, 14 December 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[htamas]

Only bad thing with Win7 is that Nvidia FXAA does not work

 

Well, FXAA doesn't work for me in WinXP either, because I have to use driver 270.61 to avoid some tables hanging with a newer driver... but 270.61 doesn't yet support FXAA.

[TedB]

Just installed W7, most recent drivers and tried again. Same settings as with XP - so all setting for VP and NVIDIA driver aimed at performance. 

About the same FPS as XP but definitely increased stutter - tested CV. I guess I will be going back to XP again - I installed W7 on a spare HD for this test so I can easily swap drives and try something if someone has an other idea that is W7 specific. 

Unfortunately not the magic bullet I was hoping for.