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#1 analog999

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:57 PM

This is specifically for cabinet owners who use the Full Screen tables. I've found that a lot of the cabinet full screen tables physics settings aren't as good as they could be. Some of the tables are really beautiful (ie any JP game), and most play relatively well, but many of them don't feel like you're playing the real machine - only because the flipper physics settings, or the physics settings for the table are just a bit off. I'm going to use this thread as a way to list the best settings I can find for each table. It will be a work in progress. I will edit the list with other's suggestions as well. Basically, if you want to contribute, all I ask of you is this: you've played the real table enough so that you can determine how shots should behave, and you're willing to experiment with the table settings to find those that match the real thing the best. Others should confirm if possible.

I want to stress that these are the results that I have found work for my cabinet. Your setup may be different and these numbers may not work as well for you. Keep a copy of the original file or write down the settings so you don't have to get the file again if you're not happy with the updates. This saves Noah's bandwidth ($$) and helps him keep it going!

I'm also going to list here what I believe to be what the settings mean, and how they affect the physics performance of the table. I am probably wrong, so I am open to corrections. I'll start the list off, and add as I have time.

Oblique Correction abbreviated as OC - This setting seems to pull the ball more towards the flipper when the number is higher - high numbers will actually make shots that normally would go across the table, backward like a backhand shot.

Speed & Strength - These settings tells how strongly the flipper flips, and the speed determines how quickly the flipper will flip. Very slow speed settings will result in very weak shots. They seem to be tied together, and if you have either speed or strength closer to 1, then the other setting should be closer to 0. Often it seems to me that strength should be the higher number, with speed around 0.2

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Tested Tables That Play Well Without Changes
-------------------------------------------

Back to the Future (JP)
Cirqus Voltaire (JP)
Lord of the Rings (JP)
Bram Stoker's Dracula by JP and also modded by Jimmy Fingers
Twilight Zone Megapin V1.0FS


-------------------------------------------
All settings not listed, table default
-------------------------------------------


Alien Star FS - Improvements by Chas
Align the flippers and rails similar to the IPDb.org screen shot (note: move them down to the darker yellow stripe that comes off the special lights)
Scale the flippers to the correct size and length according to the picture
Left & Right Flippers: Strength on 5, speed 0.075, elasticity 0.45, power law 2, OC 0, Start angle -240/240 the flippers, End angle -295/295.
Notes: After you move the flippers and rails, you'll need to change the apron in order to keep the ball from getting stuck. Reduce the apron OuterWall and Wall7 to below the apron image's yellow and red lines. It will affect the look of the table, but at least it will play better.

Demolition Man v1.06b
Right Flipper: Speed 0.2, Strength 1, End Angle 295
Left Flipper: Speed 0.2, Strength 1, End Angle 65

Diamond Lady 1.0FS
Left Flipper: OC 4.5
Right Flipper: OC 4.5

Gilligan's Island v1.1
Table Settings: Slope Min & Max 6
Right Flipper: Speed 0.2, Strength 0.66, OC 4.5
Left Flipper: Speed 0.2, Strength 0.66, OC 4.5

No Fear 91_x 1.0FS
Right Flipper: Speed 0.2, Strength 0.7, OC 4.5
Left Flipper: Speed 0.2, Strength 0.7, OC 4.5


Star Trek 25th Anniversary v1.05FS & B2S Version
Table Settings: Default
Right Flipper: Speed 0.2 Strength 1 OC 4.5, Start Angle 239, End Angle 300
Left Flipper: Speed 0.2 Strength 1 OC 4.5, Start Angle 121, End Angle 60
Script change: On my friend's real game, right kicker sw40 should kick out softer, search script for sw40 and change the 24 value to 8
Notes: This allows you to make some backhand shots at the center targets. Ideally, you should be able to backhand left ramp & transporter with left flipper, and backhand right ramp with right flipper

Tales of the Arabian Nights TOTAN v3.2FS
Right Flipper: OC 4.5
Left Flipper: OC 4.5
Notes: This makes it much easier to hit the outer shots, specifically the right captive ball, the right orbit and the left yellow target. You'll find it slightly more difficult to hit the main ramp, but this is more how the game plays in real life - it shouldn't be that easy.

Whitewater 1.0FS
Table: 6.5 degree min and max slope, see notes
Left Flipper: End Angle 66, 0.2 Speed, 0.66 Strength, OC 4.5
Right Flipper: End Angle 294, 0.2 Speed, 0.66 Strength, OC 4.5
Upper Flipper: End Angle 265, 0.25 Speed, 0.75 Strength
Table Change: If you want the ball to not bounce off the back of the flippers, move them down exactly 4 points. Shift-Click both flippers, right-click to unlock them, then arrow down 4 times, and re-lock. [maceman]

Notes: I'm still not totally happy with the way this plays, but it is an improvement over the original, for example, it lets you backhand Disaster Drop from the right flipper. There is a little weirdness when the ball is moving, but not terrible. The upper flipper still needs a little work to make it easier to hit the whirpool - this shot feels weird as it is, the ramp is a little klugy compared to real life. The slope settings makes the skill plunge easier, but messes up the bigfoot hideout ramp, so use setting at your own risk. I think a higher slope would be okay if the shooter ramp could be fixed - once you're over the apex, the ball should fall into the upper flipper feed, not back toward the shooter. Also, another glaring problem is that an extremely hard plunge sends the ball SDTM, where it should be hitting the left flipper - at least this happens on my game. Noah says he's played 3 wh20's where SDTM is standard. Another note is that there is a rubber between the bottom and right pop bumpers on my game, I don't know if this is standard or not.


-------------------------------------------
To Do List
-------------------------------------------

South Park - Very difficult to make the right ramp shot. It's kind of hard on the real pin, but not that hard. Both flippers feel off to me, but not too terrible.

DE Star Wars - The v9.1 JP game feels like the left flipper pulls the shots to the left a bit, making the death star shot a little harder than it should be. Also it is easier to trap the ball in real life.

Whitewater - As noted above

Edited by analog999, 09 February 2012 - 08:04 AM.


#2 Slydog43

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:45 PM

I thought people would be commenting on this already. I have made your changes to Gilligan's Island and like them. Will play with them more this weekend and see if the difference is really better or just in my head. Thanks

#3 JAM0

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (Slydog43 @ Dec 8 2011, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought people would be commenting on this already. I have made your changes to Gilligan's Island and like them. Will play with them more this weekend and see if the difference is really better or just in my head. Thanks


Good point. I think a lot of play is often required to get a real feel for what physics changes do to a table and it is quite easy to jump to quick conclusions that are, as you say are "just in your head". I have noticed that that has happened to me a few times. The same has happened to me for other "improvements" such as different video card settings, etc.

I haven't tried these new settings yet and am looking forward to checking them out.

Edited by JAM0, 08 December 2011 - 04:05 PM.


#4 analog999

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:30 PM

I just want to say that I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes. I don't even know for a fact that these will work better for everyone else. I have an ipac card, so if you're using the nanotech board, a hacked keyboard or some other method of getting your button presses, your mileage with these settings may vary. I just know that with some of the tables, shots that are "sweet spot" shots are very hard to hit when they should be relatively easy. Gilligan's is a great example of this - the ramp is a main feature of the game and just by looking at where it lies in the fan of shots, you can tell that shot is meant to be hit a lot. Let alone actually playing the real game and knowing you can hit that shot with relative ease. With the default Gilligan's Island settings, it's nearly impossible.

I don't know if any of the table creators own the games or if they're just guessing as to what settings would be good. For example, on Star Trek 25th, I mention the right kicker is firing too hard. On my friend's machine, it comes out and lands relatively softly in the middle of the right flipper, not hard on the left flipper. It might be that his has the wrong coil in it, or that the table creator's is based on a game that has the wrong coil and so they don't even know.

I personally own 17 machines, and have played many more than that. Most of the Bally/Williams & Stern DMD games, I have a pretty good idea of how the shots should feel.

These settings are just here for reference really, and if people want to try them, they are more than welcome to. And of course, the list is open to suggestion, if you feel like what's listed there is wrong, let's talk about it and try out what you think is better.

Edited by analog999, 08 December 2011 - 09:32 PM.


#5 lettuce

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:35 PM

nice thread, will keep an eye on this

#6 CPSNine

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:15 AM

I like the idea of this thread, I personally don't know how to tweak physics and I haven't access to many real life tables so anybody who can share the knowledge is welcome.
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#7 analog999

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 09:31 AM

Table updated with Totan 3.2FS

#8 maceman

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:29 PM

...keep 'em coming smile.gif
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#9 Arcade4

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 05:28 PM

QUOTE (analog999 @ Dec 16 2011, 03:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Table updated with Totan 3.2FS


Awesome.
Now we just need the ball to eject out of the the bazaar to the correct flipper. smile.gif


#10 thewool

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 05:31 PM

Love this topic - LOVE IT!!! Did you alter anymore settings for TOTAN, are any basic flipper tricks possible?

This for me is VP's final frontier... we have amazing authors, resource makers, contributors, devs, etc. with the results being ace graphics on tables along the tombstone effect to complement them, now little tweaks like this to the physics are the icing on the cake smile.gif



#11 mariozeferino

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 05:46 PM

i ve been trying messing with these settings, i think the ball gains more mass and acceleration.

Tbl Slope Min Difficulty and Tbl Slope Max Difficulty set to 4.5

Gravity Constant set to 2.2

#12 CPSNine

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:03 PM

Yesss!

One of my favorite table, happy to see this thread is not dead.

Will be checking for more!
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#13 analog999

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE (thewool @ Dec 16 2011, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Love this topic - LOVE IT!!! Did you alter anymore settings for TOTAN, are any basic flipper tricks possible?

This for me is VP's final frontier... we have amazing authors, resource makers, contributors, devs, etc. with the results being ace graphics on tables along the tombstone effect to complement them, now little tweaks like this to the physics are the icing on the cake smile.gif


I owned a TOTAN for about a year, but it has been about a year since I sold it. It is the one game I sold that I still really miss, so I'm glad to have it on the hyperpin. It's hard to remember all the shots and how they reacted, but I remember quite a bit. As the table stands without any mods, it's decent, but hard to play since especially that left yellow target is such a major role in certain modes like Sesame. So, the OC mod is a major improvement IMO. Flipper passes from a catch work like I would expect them to on the real game.

One thing I think I remember doing is holding the right flipper up when the ball is draining down the ramp and it would go across to the left flipper. This isn't possible with the default settings. I haven't tried to change the table slope, that would probably fix that, but I haven't had time. Another thing I noticed on this version is that the ball will go into the harem sneak hole (from the pops) too often. I am pretty sure that shot was only if there was a weak shot to the left orbit - not from bouncing around from the pops. Increasing the slope might help as well, although I feel like the slope is pretty good as is. In fact, the main ramp seems to be a little hard, and decreasing the slope might help that. It's barely make-able, strength wise, not angle wise, when it should be relatively smooth and fast. I'm hesitant to change the strength of the flippers, because they seem pretty good for the lower part of the table. It definitely can use more tweaking, but just the OC makes a big enough difference.

I'll have to try those settings mariozeferino suggested. Anyone else have a comment on those?

QUOTE (Arcade4 @ Dec 16 2011, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (analog999 @ Dec 16 2011, 03:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Table updated with Totan 3.2FS


Awesome.
Now we just need the ball to eject out of the the bazaar to the correct flipper. smile.gif


You know, that seemed to me like it came out hard, but I couldn't remember for sure. I do have a friend of mine who still owns a TOTAN, so I'll ask him to verify. Should be an easy fix.

Edited by analog999, 16 December 2011 - 07:41 PM.


#14 analog999

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 12:44 AM

Whitewater added

#15 chas

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:01 AM

you forgot elasticity of the flippers is important.
0.3 is a little flat.
0.4 - 0.5 seems to work well.
similating the real machine is a different story.
we dont have PB anymore.

i did play real PB way back.
played TZone, quick draw, triple action, frontier and a few more.
sorry, i dont completly agree with the youtube videos.
too fast.
the tables are playing way beyond what the eye can see.
the table should play at a comfortable speed for the eye to see.

Edited by chas, 17 December 2011 - 01:07 AM.


#16 analog999

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:25 AM

QUOTE (chas @ Dec 17 2011, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
you forgot elasticity of the flippers is important.
0.3 is a little flat.
0.4 - 0.5 seems to work well.
similating the real machine is a different story.
we dont have PB anymore.

i did play real PB way back.
played TZone, quick draw, triple action, frontier and a few more.
sorry, i dont completly agree with the youtube videos.
too fast.
the tables are playing way beyond what the eye can see.
the table should play at a comfortable speed for the eye to see.



Agreed, elasticity is important. I haven't been adding it because I feel like the tables I've listed so far have been okay for that. I'm not familiar with PB, what are you referring to? Zen's FX2 is way too fast, if it's anything similar to that, I agree, it's bad.

#17 Noah Fentz

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:37 AM

QUOTE (analog999 @ Dec 7 2011, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Notes: I'm still not totally happy with the way this plays, but it is an improvement over the original, for example, it lets you backhand Disaster Drop from the right flipper. There is a little weirdness when the ball is moving, but not terrible. The upper flipper still needs a little work to make it easier to hit the whirpool - this shot feels weird as it is, the ramp is a little klugy compared to real life. The slope settings makes the skill plunge easier, but messes up the bigfoot hideout ramp, so use setting at your own risk. I think a higher slope would be okay if the shooter ramp could be fixed - once you're over the apex, the ball should fall into the upper flipper feed, not back toward the shooter. Also, another glaring problem is that an extremely hard plunge sends the ball SDTM, where it should be hitting the left flipper. Another note is that there is a rubber between the bottom and right pop bumpers on my game, I don't know if this is standard or not.


I can't help but reply to this ...

I did the physics on WH2O, and it plays almost exactly as the one I owned played and all the others I've played. A full plunge certainly does send the ball SDTM on the last three WH2O's I've played.

I guess it's a matter of personal preference whether you want it to play like a real machine or make it easier. Keep in mind, it's supposed to be a challenge to keep the ball in play, not a challenge to overcome the boredom of a 4 billion score.

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#18 analog999

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:21 AM

QUOTE (Noah Fentz @ Dec 17 2011, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (analog999 @ Dec 7 2011, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Notes: I'm still not totally happy with the way this plays, but it is an improvement over the original, for example, it lets you backhand Disaster Drop from the right flipper. There is a little weirdness when the ball is moving, but not terrible. The upper flipper still needs a little work to make it easier to hit the whirpool - this shot feels weird as it is, the ramp is a little klugy compared to real life. The slope settings makes the skill plunge easier, but messes up the bigfoot hideout ramp, so use setting at your own risk. I think a higher slope would be okay if the shooter ramp could be fixed - once you're over the apex, the ball should fall into the upper flipper feed, not back toward the shooter. Also, another glaring problem is that an extremely hard plunge sends the ball SDTM, where it should be hitting the left flipper. Another note is that there is a rubber between the bottom and right pop bumpers on my game, I don't know if this is standard or not.


I can't help but reply to this ...

I did the physics on WH2O, and it plays almost exactly as the one I owned played and all the others I've played. A full plunge certainly does send the ball SDTM on the last three WH2O's I've played.

I guess it's a matter of personal preference whether you want it to play like a real machine or make it easier. Keep in mind, it's supposed to be a challenge to keep the ball in play, not a challenge to overcome the boredom of a 4 billion score.

wink.gif


Noah, first off, let me say that I don't mean to offend you, your work, or any one else's. My goal here is to make the games play as closely as possible to the real thing, on my cabinet at least. My comment on "weirdness" is in reference to shooting off the flipper when the ball is moving, rather than from a catch - it seems to fire the ball further to the left from the right flipper than I would expect, but works excellent with a flipper catch. Those are my settings that I was talking about. As for your settings, it very well may be that settings need to be tweaked on each cabinet setup. I'm willing to bet that it makes a huge difference what kind of interface the buttons have to the PC. It could even be a difference between the types of button switches that are being used - ie a toggle micro or leaf switch, and for leaf switches, how far apart are the switch contacts? Etc.

I will double check (I would right now, but would wake the kid up), but I am pretty certain mine doesn't SDTM on a full plunge. If I'm wrong, I completely stand corrected. Maybe I've never had it happen because maybe I never did a *full* plunge. I'm willing to admit I could easily be wrong on stuff. I want the game to play as close to as real life, so if this is how it should work, then this is how it should be. Could also potentially be that the spring on my shooter rod is wrong if it doesn't.

So I'm curious about your experience with with your default settings, because this thread might be completely useless for anyone but myself if this is the case, and, I might stop adding to it to save confusion. Can you make a backhand up the disaster drop from a caught ball? I couldn't - the best I could do was no way out. Here again, even the coil stop being worn (in real life) _could_ make a difference on this as it would change the stop angle. I am pretty certain I can do that DD shot with my machine. I have played so many games it is hard to remember the original settings now, but I feel like I was able to backhand the left ramp with the default settings no problem. Not possible on my real game. I will double check both of these too in the morning. I will also go back to the defaults on the hyperpin and check my comments.


Other than the Gilligan comment above - has anyone else tried any of my settings on any of the tables I listed? What did you think if you did?

Edited by analog999, 17 December 2011 - 10:33 AM.


#19 analog999

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:53 AM

Speaking of Whitewater.. from a guy's camping trip we did in October...


Pin strapped to the back of my motorhome


In play! (I'm taking the photo, so I'm not pictured)

#20 JAM0

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 11:58 AM

Tried Gilligan's island and Demolition man -- both were huge improvements! Thanks! Will try the others when I get a chance. Nice thread.