17 replies to this topic

[Junkyerd]

Hello!! 

 

Since been a while i have not tried to build my cabinet and been on the forums..

 

 

The first shot i have remember, after discovering mame on 2004 and vpinmame... , was on 2008 and vp6 using rotate screens programs...

 

i remember the beginning of the dream... ultravp server...positioning the table on rotated screen, and showing the backglass via script with ultravp (Manofwar user)

 

I have no idea but i was crossing some spec problems (my single core proccesor was not powerful enough to bring a good playablity in two screens at visual pinball)

 

But, yes.. i have tried all the windows stuff in those days (windows 98, etc..) no results..

 

 

 

Back in 2009 with new pc....i5 3500k and nvidia GT220.... i was able to play all the vp9 stuff, but my graphics card (my proccesor too) bottleneck the vpx version...

 

Now i have a i7 3770 processor and a RX580 card (8gbs DDR5), and i have installed 28gbs ram DDR3 which it´s working 1400 mhz....

 

I have noticed that VPX64bits version 10.8.1271 (older versions the same..) brings to me the worst frame rate playing almost every table (not the case for the Iron man VPW table or some JP tables...)

But  the case its with vp64 bits...i see worst ball movement in almost every table..

 

The 32 version works a little bit better...for me.

 

I have found the best  VP version  which works for me. in almost every table, it´s the vpx7 version 10.7.3 ,(it´s a 32 bits version) 

 

Windows 10 (pro, home, etc..) also brings bad framerates to my system.

 

I have found the best  windows version works for me it´s windows atlas (windows 10 home with some vulnerablities..) i will try in the following days with windows 8 or windows 7 (no problem installing in new hdd and testing hehe). Pinaffinity or other apps really doesn´t help so much for me..

 

So..i have a found a " little -tiny -newbie- tricks"  for bring the best framerate on ball movement in almost every table..

 

1) pressing play and watching the ball moving like...i don,t know...i really hate those moments...in multiball or when some flashers lit up or some things happening at the same time and the balls its appearing and dissapearing and it´s like.... it´s impossible to play at decent levels... you can really notice this it´s going to happen... when you launch the ball for the first time, and you watch the ball movement it´s not 100% well.... so in this cases the first thing for me it´s to pulling out the vp64bits version, the second thing it´s to try the vp32 (10.8.1271), and the last option i(so the first options doesn´t work) it´s to load and save the table on VPX7 version. The vpx7 version it´s like god for me.

 

2)Dissabling reflections in the table vp-editor (the ball reflections and the table reflections ), also selecting the best options for performance in graphics options in the vp-editor.

 

3)So...i work with 4 monitor setup and the puppacks ,in some tables, and i have noticed that the backglass it´s a important thing for solving some bad framerate tables problem... if you have got an animated backglass....you can try to eliminate the animations on b2s server setup screen (right mouse click over the backglass and select quit all animations to OFF)this really works well, in some tables like the goonies, for example, ...or if you have got a heavy weight backglass ...you can try to change it...

For example....The TOTAN 1.5 4k was really unaplayable for me... until i have deleted the 320 mbs backglass and replace it with a new one 16 mbs backglass.

 

4)The 120 hzs in my monitor brings a good experience playing almost every table and 2560x1440.. its the best option for every table...selecting lower resolutions or lower screen framerates doesn´t work for me at all..

 

So after all..i have assumed i am good today..i really need a new graphics card...but will be in a future..

 

Only a few questions...it´s normal vpx64 bits it´s working so bad for me? it´s the spherical movement or the light reflexion from the flashers to the ball? why vpx7 its working for me so perfect in almost every table???..

 

I want to mention the incredible step forwards in future pinball (f-14, star wars, jaws, knight rider, robocop, aliens, blade runner, wow, etc etc...) it´s amazing i never believe watching future pinball in this point.

And being playing with dof and arduino or wemos or kl25z and all the led stuff and the pup packs..it´s really f....amazing..

 

But my love its with vp dudes..

it´s like mini me or scott guys. cheers!!

Edited by Junkyerd, 04 August 2023 - 09:38 PM.

[wiesshund]

RX580 is not a 4k card

It came out when 1080p was king (and still kind of is for competition FPS)
and 2k was bleeding edge and 4k was some twisted fantasy

 

With the right drivers, the RX580 should run VPX just fine though at 2k
Just make sure your drivers are up to date and properly configured.

VPX wise you can pretty much turn everything on
May wanna disable bilateral CAS though.
At 2K you may or may not feel the need for FSAA

And try using frame pacing for sync mode

 

the CPU may be a little on the light side

 

i7 9700k would do much better, if your motherboard won't support newer CPU models

[Junkyerd]

Changing the proccessor I5 3500K to an i7 3770, was a huge step forward for me..

 

The i7 9700 will work like a charm..i didn´t watched so thank you...i was thinking the 3770 was the roof top in LGA1151 socket, hehehe..

 

the proccesor will be fine...but my problem now it´s the graphics card... so there´s a few tables working fine but sometimes the ball movement gets blurry (yes four monitors and several videos at the same time and all the viruses etc)

But i think i will build analogic wood pinball before buying a 350 euros graphics card..

I have prefer wasting my money in drugs (hahaha i don´t use drugs)

[Mike DA Spike]

350 euro for a video card is pretty decent. My first pinball video card was 450 euro and last year I swapped it for a 999 euro card... (rtx 2070 to rtx3080)
But it was worth it. Not only the video card makes a differrent, also tv/monitor.
I never had a good smooth ball on all tables when I use a 40" tv on 60hz. But swapping it for a freesync 165hz, made a huge difference.
Never had stuttering anymore as I could use vsync on my freesync monitor

Edited by Mike DA Spike, 06 August 2023 - 12:27 PM.

[wiesshund]

60hz with sync should be smooth, on a pc monitor anyways
On a TV maybe not, since a monitor and a TV has slightly different opinions on how to do things.

 

It looks good on a ROG 43" but that is not a TV

 

Now Ball shadows, on many tables, will flub things up.
you turn off the ball shadow and ball seems smooth, turn them on and it seems weirdly stuttery/flickery
cause the shadow updates position on a timer and gives the illusion that the ball is jerking when the updates and monitor refresh dont like each other.

 

isnt a problem in 10.8 as fixed ball shadows are no longer needed, so you can actually turn them off (just make the stack of flashers invisible)
or disable them in the script.

[Junkyerd]

Yes i don´t like the ball shadow or the ball reflection in the table..better ball movement without..

 

Sometimes you pay 450 euros and it´s cheaper than 85...my card it´s a problem..

 

But with windows atlas and visualpinballx7 i can play good number of the tables...almost the 90% of the time hehe

 

i can´t afford a new videocard now so i am ok..maybe the processor and a new 200 euros card in a future or a new motherboard with new socket, new ram , argh

 

My monitor it´s not freesync and i have got all dissably in the graphics card...i will try to switch on the vsync...but the real way it`s to get a new graphics card and pure it (the i79700 procesor will help but the bottleneck it`s just the bottleneck)

 

 

Ok thanks guys

[wiesshund]

vsync you can enable in vpx prefs
set sync to 1 (10.8 vertical sync, you can try frame pacing, it may not work for you but no harm in trying, if it works it should perform well)

 

for that card, most likely disable the forced 4x anti aliasing
(in 10.8 super sampling none)

Post process none

Sharpen None
 

Force anisotropic Checked

 

Set max texture size to 3072

 

Try object detail lowest and adjust up until performance is lost.

 

ambient occulsion, uncheck both

 

reflections try uncheck screenspace

Playfield, try static or none (try static 1st)

 

Ball trail/motion blur off

 

Start there and check frame rates.
Then pick one thing to tinker with. checking frame rates.

I know the RX580 can run VPX in full detail at 2k rez (i have an RX580 gaming-X sitting here)
but i do not know about 120fps at all times.
I know it will plow through at 75fps non stop

 

You have Adrenaline drivers, i hope?
Make a profile for VPX
DISABLE morphaligic anti aliasing
Set FSAA to NOT ENHANCE
leave Vsync as app pref

 

Superresolution off
Chill OFF

AntiLag oFF

SHarpness 80

Enhanced sync OFF

AA Method Adaptive

ANisotropic ON 8X

Texture Filtering Performance

Tesselation AMD optimized

OGL triple buffering OFF
Freesync OFF

I am copying these from an RX580 set up that runs VPX perfectly at 2K
and at least on some tables, can far exceed 120fps (not sure about all)
And that machine has VPX 10.7 on it and it has ALL VPX graphic options ON set to highest.

That machine has a Ryzen 5 1500X CPU and 16GB DDR4

 

So you should be able to work through this.

I think it is the CPU intensive things that are holding you back, not really the GPU

So you have to work at it a bit till you find what drags the CPU down where it cant food the GPU fast enough.

You need a CPU upgrade before you need a GPU upgrade

Again, i have a machine with that GPU and a 32" 2k monitor, and for the age of the GPU, it just plows through things.
Even modern AAA games.
The difference is the CPU (and motherboard but that wont factor in much)

 

[Junkyerd]

wow thanks i

 

Yes i think i can handle something with this specs...

and if oneday i will buy something....first will be the I7 9700 processor...

 

I have the latest adrenalyn drivers installed (23.q.1.1) adrenalyn pro edition

 

I have noticed in windows 10 home or pro there it`s no problem with generic drivers...if you don`t install adrenalyn...it works for me as well...

But windows atlas it`s different..you have to install for better performance...

 

I didn´t told you but...hehe...i use two display ports from the motherboard (inteldisplay) for two monitors.. (i think it doesn`t help so much)..

 

Ok i will try your settings for the VP editor and the GPU.

Firstly, i have trust in your experience and i feel grateful about what have you told me in the previous post. ok i will told you how it goes (yesterday vsync in the GPU works really well...better than Radeon enhanced sync (i think it`s something similar, but vsync always activated works better in visualpinballX than radeon enhanced sync (tested on several tables...i see a little tiny bit performance in ball movement ¡, and yes i have 4 monitors and the guns and roses pup pack.

 

This week i will try windows 8 (or 7 if not)

[wiesshund]

The generic drivers are Scheisse, to put it mildly

No real benefit in offloading the B2S to motherboard iGPU
their GPU load is trivial

PUP is rendered ALL on CPU
It does not support Hardware decoding.

You would probably be better not running PUP?

[toxie]

vbousquet also just recently introduced a new vsync option into VPX8:

- Video synchronization and target frame rate are now 2 separate settings and a new video synchronization mode for low latency input/physics/rendering has been added. The choices are:
  - None: no synchronization, VPX just runs as fast as possible. Unless when playing on a very powerful system, this should lead to some input latency (due to lack of input syncing) and render latency
          (due to flooding the GPU frame queue). This setting used to be 'Adaptive Sync: 0'
  - VSync: synchronize on the display vertical blank signal. This can limit stutters and avoids tearing, but will lead to high input latency. This used to be mode 'Adaptive Sync: 1'
  - Adaptive VSync: same as 'VSync', but when a frame is late (=missing the refresh rate), it is displayed immediately. This should reduce stutters but features the same input latency.
                    The DirectX 9 version uses software synchronization, while OpenGL uses hardware (driver) synchronization which should give slightly better results. This used to be mode 'Adaptive Sync: 2'
  - Frame Pacing: *NEW* VPX will try to run the input & physics simulation continuously in real time instead of only once per frame. This lowers the input latency, especially if the
                  computer is powerful enough to run at the monitor refresh rate. This also allows to have the input synchronized to PinMAME when enabling it, fixing some synchronization bugs like in
                  seen in video modes with fast button presses (Lethal Weapon, Black Rose,...).
  Due to these changes, the target frame rate is now a separate setting. If defined, it will lead VPX to perform its own synchronization, trying to achieve the requested frame rate.
  The synchronization settings still apply. Therefore, selecting a frame rate that is higher than the monitor refresh rate requires the use of the 'None' synchronization mode!

The Frame Pacing one is the new recommended setting and may be able to make the gameplay experience a bit more consistent (=the lag for flipper presses more even).

 

 

Then, on top, we hopefully(!) at some point will be able to completely get rid of the windows VBScript interpreter and use the one from Wine, which jsm ported over.

This will avoid all the paranoia script checking which can lead to sporadic hangs, too, plus all the COM interface overhead.

At the moment this is 'only' exposed in the VPX8 standalone beta builds though.

[acovukic]

Disabling external dmd, and using in game one helped for me, i have 10700k and rtx 3070 with 32gb of ram, and in bigus star trek le have 150  fps but, ball is so twichy that game is unplayable. Tried every posble setting nothing helped till i disabled external dmd (freeze). Its those options under F1. restored internal dmd and unchecked external dmd, and now game works graet, no chopines or any other problems.

[Mike DA Spike]

Disabling external dmd, and using in game one helped for me, i have 10700k and rtx 3070 with 32gb of ram, and in bigus star trek le have 150  fps but, ball is so twichy that game is unplayable. Tried every posble setting nothing helped till i disabled external dmd (freeze). Its those options under F1. restored internal dmd and unchecked external dmd, and now game works graet, no chopines or any other problems.

Which version of Freezy's dmdext are you using?

[acovukic]

2.1.2,  many tables that had ball stutters, playing great now.  I was sure it was too mauch lighting, but no, with tables dmd all things are crancked up to max and still runs maxed at 164 fps with to twiching at any moment.

Edited by acovukic, 08 October 2023 - 10:32 PM.

[Junkyerd]

After two ransomwares..

Please don`t install windows atlas..

 

Windows atlas it`s not a good thing at all, i don`t like it..

I have passed a little hell with djvu ransomware.

And my mails are in the deepweb

[garnel]

Regarding "stutter" I just read mjr's guide Chapter 17, Optimizing Performance - then downloaded PinAffinity and followed his suggestion of assigning VPX .exe's to CPU cores 1-3 and leaving the remaining cores for the non pinball processes. This causes VPX to respond immediately to flippers, and other interrupts (bumpers, etc).

 

I'm using a Ryzen 5 5600x CPU and Frame Pacing works, but with pup packs, B2S, Freezy, etc., find that limiting VPX to three cores, as mjr suggests, works even better. However I still leave Frame Pacing enabled. As a test, turned off frame pacing and ran a pup pack table, ZZ Top. as a worst case example. With VPX limited to 3 cores, there was absolutely no stuttering - none. 

 

Pushing F11 to view frame rate and latency showed a smaller latency range in both of my cabs, one with a 60hz display and the other with a 120hz display. The frame rates remained solid on both. Latency averages  a few hundred micro seconds on both cabs. It never get's anywhere near the millisecond range.  mjr's PinAffinity utility is well documented and easy to set up.

 

Limiting VPX to three cores may seem counterintuitive -  but in this case it gives VPX the highest priority to interrupt response - ahead of all non VPX threads. By default, Windows responds to interrupts in a round robin manner, making VPX wait it's turn in the queue to respond, which increases latency. Using the PinAffinity utility causes flipper, bumper, and all other VPX interrupt inputs to be serviced much faster.

 

Thank you Michael Roberts for your incredibly well documented build guide!

Edited by garnel, 14 February 2024 - 07:47 PM.

[Junkyerd]

Setting up three cores to VPX and five cores to every  process not related to VPX its a little bit complicated..

 

First i think you must download processhacker nightly build (cpu affinity in windows it`s not good enough, CTRL-SHIFT-ESC)

 

Nightly - System Informer (sourceforge.io)

 

With this program i am able to see which programs i dont need:

 

Cortana, windows cloud updates, windows weather or news, razer synapse software etc etc...

 

Everything uninstalled

 

My problem it`s setting up thrre cores to VPX...

 

I am able to set Pinupdisplay, VpinballX64, Vpin studio server (java 611 mbs ) b2sbackglassserver ,pinupplayer , pinvol,  dof process and doflinx

 

Everything related to vpx it`s set up to the first three cores, and everything not related to vpx it`s set up to the last five cores.

 

But i am not able to find the  vpinmamme process 

And svchost.exe it`s a problem..i don`t know where to start

Edited by Junkyerd, 21 February 2024 - 11:18 AM.

[garnel]

Setting up three cores to VPX and five cores to every  process not related to VPX its a little bit complicated..

 

First i think you must download processhacker nightly build (cpu affinity in windows it`s not good enough, CTRL-SHIFT-ESC)

 

Nightly - System Informer (sourceforge.io)

 

With this program i am able to see which programs i dont need:

 

Cortana, windows cloud updates, windows weather or news, razer synapse software etc etc...

 

Everything uninstalled

 

My problem it`s setting up thrre cores to VPX...

 

I am able to set Pinupdisplay, VpinballX64, Vpin studio server (java 611 mbs ) b2sbackglassserver ,pinupplayer , pinvol,  dof process and doflinx

 

Everything related to vpx it`s set up to the first three cores, and everything not related to vpx it`s set up to the last five cores.

 

But i am not able to find the  vpinmamme process 

And svchost.exe it`s a problem..i don`t know where to start

If you download PinAffinit;y, it's already set up for VPX with the 3 core assignment as default. It's all done for you. Run it in background when running VPX, close it otherwise.

[acidjazz59]

Many thanks for the hints on improving the quality, my pincab now run nice with VPX 10.8 

config I5-3570 8GB / RX580 8GB 

2screen full HD