18 replies to this topic

[Fitz80]

Hi All, 

 

I'm a grade 7 teacher who has been integrating robotics, programming, 3d printing and maker space projects in my room for about 10 years.  I see all of these unique learning experiences coming together with pinball.  From game design, physics, 3d printing and math, there really is no limit.  But, the kids have never seen, nor played a pinball, an experience that will hopefully ignite the learning journey.  

 

The good news is I have a pretty good computer, designed for vr headsets:

intel core i7-8700 CpU @3.20 GHZ 3.19GHZ

Ram 16

64 bit OS on windows 11

 

Graphics cards:

Intel UHD graphics 630

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080

 

My computer knowledge is lacking, so what monitor quality would make the most sense for this setup?  From 4K to 1080P with a high refresh rate, I'm not sure what would make the most sense...this is all coming out of my pocket and I'm trying to stretch the dollar but keep the quality high.   I'm also thinking wide body.  

 

Based on what I've read, I found a new bestbuy screen that seems to check off a lot of boxes.  Do my computer specs match the screen...or is the screen overkill.   Your advice or input would really be appreciated before I buy a screen, I'm new to all of this.  I'd hate to buy a screen and discover that the computer isn't powerful enough to run it.  

 

Sony X85K 43" 4K UHD HDR LED Smart Google TV (KD43X85K) 

43-inch screen supports 3840 x 2160 resolutions with a 120Hz refresh rate for ultra-clear picture quality

4K HDR Processor X1 boosts picture detail, ensuring your screen is always blur-free and vivid

Enhanced by Triluminos Pro for colours that are more true to life

Supports Dolby Atmos for a cinematic sound experience

Includes a table-top stand to enable a better viewing angle

 

Exclusive PlayStation 5 features improve the picture quality for a better gaming experience

HDMI 2.1-enabled to support important gaming features like variable refresh rate (VRR) and auto low latency mode (ALLM)

Motionflow XR technology reduces picture blur when playing fast-paced games, giving you the competitive edge

 

 

would the  monitor quality would make the most sense for this setup?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[charley]

if you really want to do this....this is just my opinion.

dont want you spend a lot of $$ then it didnt work out.

i played real PB when PB was everywhere.  

your PC is fine.  the 43 monitor is too small to simulate PB

Widebody tables won't work.  

WB tables will be squeezed, images distorted, the ball will get stuck in the lanes etc.  btdt

right now i have a 48class 1080  24x42.  it's maybe 4-6inches short of a real table at 46-48inches

a 50 class is @ 26x44  this might be a better choice for WB tables

 

WB tables     https://duckduckgo.c...ll table&ia=web

standard tables     https://www.dimensio...inball-machines

Edited by charley, 27 February 2023 - 08:28 PM.

[Fitz80]

Thank you so much for the response!  What size of screen would you recommend?  I'll be building everything from scratch; I'd like to get it right.  I've seen some going for 50 inch.  Also, based on the computer, what quality of tv should I be shooting for.  All opinions are welcome!

this is just my opinion.

dont want you spend a lot of $$ then it didnt work out.

i played real PB when PB was everywhere. 

your PC is fine.  the 43 monitor is too small to simulate PB

Widebody tables wont work.  

the table will be squeezed, images distorted, the ball will get stuck in the lanes etc.  btdt

 

WB tables     https://duckduckgo.c...ll table&ia=web

standard tables     https://www.dimensio...inball-machines

Edited by Fitz80, 27 February 2023 - 09:01 PM.

[charley]

 

Thank you so much for the response!  What size of screen would you recommend?  I'll be building everything from scratch; I'd like to get it right.  I've seen some going for 50 inch.  

this is just my opinion.

dont want you spend a lot of $$ then it didnt work out.

i played real PB when PB was everywhere. 

your PC is fine.  the 43 monitor is too small to simulate PB

Widebody tables wont work.  

the table will be squeezed, images distorted, the ball will get stuck in the lanes etc.  btdt

 

WB tables     https://duckduckgo.c...ll table&ia=web

standard tables     https://www.dimensio...inball-machines

again this is just imo from real PB, if you want to play standard tables and WB tables you will need 2 different

screens like i mentioned in the links above.  WB tables won't work in a screen less than 26x46.  

start out with a 1 monitor setup on a budget to get the kids a taste of PB

if you like it you can always move up to a full cab with the 2 and 3 screen setup.

the 48-49class screen is probably a good choice and close to a real table 24x42 

the 50class might be best for WBody at 26x44

some are using a 43 because of space and cost saving.

btw, a 60hz will work.  my 48class is 60hz.  its up to if you if want a120hz

read the links and do your homework before you make a decision.

Edited by charley, 27 February 2023 - 09:28 PM.

[charley]

Fitz.....

a 50 will work for both standard and WB tables

you can change the dimensions of the table in the backdrop settings in the desktop exec for standard and WB tables. 

there might be a small 2inch gap at the edges in the standard tables because the 50class is 26inches and the standard tables

 are 20-22inches. 

the desktop exec will have X Y backdrop settings to expand or shrink top, bottom, sides, move left or right to fit the screen to what you want

Edited by charley, 27 February 2023 - 11:03 PM.

[Jewer76]

If you haven't already done so, may I suggest that you check out Way of the wrench's YouTube-channel? He is a Canadian Shop teacher that is documenting his pinball cabinet build and turning it into a learning channel.

He is very focused on cost and stretching the dollar and in one of the episodes he goes into detail about choice of screen.

I am not arguing with what Charley said, but for me at least, this is still just a simulation and a 43" tv in a widebody cab is perfectly fine to get the feeling of playing a pinball table.

[wiesshund]

I am not arguing with what Charley said, but for me at least, this is still just a simulation and a 43" tv in a widebody cab is perfectly fine to get the feeling of playing a pinball table.

 

It is exactly what Noah puts into his widebody cabs at Virtualpin, and what most others here put into their fullsized cabs as well

[charley]

If you haven't already done so, may I suggest that you check out Way of the wrench's YouTube-channel? He is a Canadian Shop teacher that is documenting his pinball cabinet build and turning it into a learning channel.

He is very focused on cost and stretching the dollar and in one of the episodes he goes into detail about choice of screen.

I am not arguing with what Charley said, but for me at least, this is still just a simulation and a 43" tv in a widebody cab is perfectly fine to get the feeling of playing a pinball table.

well, ok, but for me i played real PB.

i dunno if could get with a small 43.

Edited by charley, 01 March 2023 - 04:23 AM.

[wiesshund]

well, ok, but for me i played real PB.

 

 

i dunno if could get with a small 43.

 

This is little?

 

 

It's a full sized Williams Widebody Cabinet for cripes sakes

It's a damned sight larger than any pinball machine from 1960 1970 was

[charley]

 

well, ok, but for me i played real PB.

 

 

i dunno if could get with a small 43.

 

This is little?

 

 

It's a full sized Williams Widebody Cabinet for cripes sakes

It's a damned sight larger than any pinball machine from 1960 1970 was

 

i dunno, i cant tell.  the pic is not very good.

it looks ok. 

what are the dimensions of the PF

Edited by charley, 01 March 2023 - 04:27 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

RAW LCD Sizes, does not account for side lighting assemblies, framing etc
43" is 37.5 x 21.1
50" is 43.6 x 24.5
55" is 47.9 x 27
 

SOME pinball dimensions
Dimensions of course include parts that most people are half shoving off the screen on a VPin, like the apron

Company Type Style Inches Alvin G SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Alvin G SS Mystery Castle 20.25" x 46.00" Atari SS Widebody 27.00" x 45.00" Bally EM Standard 20.25" x 41.00" Bally SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Bally SS Widebody 26.75" x 40.50" Capcom SS Standard 20.25" x 46.00" Data East SS Standard 20.25" x 46.00" Data East SS Widebody 25.00" x 51.75" Game Plan SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Gottlieb EM Standard 20.25" x 41.00" Gottlieb System 1 Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Gottlieb System 80 Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Gottlieb System 80 Widebody 23.75" x 46.50" Gottlieb System 80 Circus (Extra Wide) 26.75" x 46.50" Gottlieb System 3 Standard 20.25" x 46.00" Stern Electronics SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Stern Electronics SS Widebody 23.875" x 45.00" Stern Pinball SS Standard 20.25" x 45.00" Williams System 1-11 Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Williams System 1-11 Widebody 27.00" x 42.00" WMS WPC Safecracker 16.50" x 41.50" WMS WPC (through 1987) Standard 20.50" x 42.00" WMS WPC (1987 on) Standard 20.25" x various Wh2O=44.5" BSD=45" WMS WPC Superpin (Widebody) 23.00" x 46.00" WMS Pinball 2000 Standard 20.50" x 43.00" Zaccaria SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00"

The most you can possibly get into a normal Widebody cab is a 50" screen
Probably STRIPPED naked, down to the bare LCD, which means there are certain screens you can not use because they have stuff on the sides
That  means you have 0 warranty now after laying out all that cash for a 50" 120hz display
It also means risk of breakage increases exponentially. 
If one is intending to shove in in a real Pin cabinet with real dimensions.

If one is doing a custom cab, obviously you can do whatever you damned well please, but i would seriously recommend you DONT have your raw LCD
even remotely thinking about touching the sides of the cab at all, or you can, and see what takes place after the cab in nudged bumped moved or transported a bit.
55" of fractured or delaminated LDC is neither fun nor amusing.

 

And they dont much make 48" panels any more, which you can probably barely wedge in, intact, in a widebody cabinet
LynninDenver did, barely

You are talking a mere 6 inches of additional length
Which may be empty depending on source table playing
and 3 inches width.

Which doesnt amount to much when you are standing on top of the thing, and real pin vary that much anyways
or used to until there were almost no real pin manufacturers around.

 

But to say 43" is too small "because i played a real pinball machine" is plain silly.

[charley]

 

 

RAW LCD Sizes, does not account for side lighting assemblies, framing etc
43" is 37.5 x 21.1
50" is 43.6 x 24.5
55" is 47.9 x 27
 

SOME pinball dimensions
Dimensions of course include parts that most people are half shoving off the screen on a VPin, like the apron

Company Type Style Inches Alvin G SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Alvin G SS Mystery Castle 20.25" x 46.00" Atari SS Widebody 27.00" x 45.00" Bally EM Standard 20.25" x 41.00" Bally SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Bally SS Widebody 26.75" x 40.50" Capcom SS Standard 20.25" x 46.00" Data East SS Standard 20.25" x 46.00" Data East SS Widebody 25.00" x 51.75" Game Plan SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Gottlieb EM Standard 20.25" x 41.00" Gottlieb System 1 Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Gottlieb System 80 Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Gottlieb System 80 Widebody 23.75" x 46.50" Gottlieb System 80 Circus (Extra Wide) 26.75" x 46.50" Gottlieb System 3 Standard 20.25" x 46.00" Stern Electronics SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Stern Electronics SS Widebody 23.875" x 45.00" Stern Pinball SS Standard 20.25" x 45.00" Williams System 1-11 Standard 20.25" x 42.00" Williams System 1-11 Widebody 27.00" x 42.00" WMS WPC Safecracker 16.50" x 41.50" WMS WPC (through 1987) Standard 20.50" x 42.00" WMS WPC (1987 on) Standard 20.25" x various Wh2O=44.5" BSD=45" WMS WPC Superpin (Widebody) 23.00" x 46.00" WMS Pinball 2000 Standard 20.50" x 43.00" Zaccaria SS Standard 20.25" x 42.00"

The most you can possibly get into a normal Widebody cab is a 50" screen
Probably STRIPPED naked, down to the bare LCD, which means there are certain screens you can not use because they have stuff on the sides
That  means you have 0 warranty now after laying out all that cash for a 50" 120hz display
It also means risk of breakage increases exponentially. 
If one is intending to shove in in a real Pin cabinet with real dimensions.

If one is doing a custom cab, obviously you can do whatever you damned well please, but i would seriously recommend you DONT have your raw LCD
even remotely thinking about touching the sides of the cab at all, or you can, and see what takes place after the cab in nudged bumped moved or transported a bit.
55" of fractured or delaminated LDC is neither fun nor amusing.

 

And they dont much make 48" panels any more, which you can probably barely wedge in, intact, in a widebody cabinet
LynninDenver did, barely

You are talking a mere 6 inches of additional length
Which may be empty depending on source table playing
and 3 inches width.

Which doesnt amount to much when you are standing on top of the thing, and real pin vary that much anyways
or used to until there were almost no real pin manufacturers around.

 

But to say 43" is too small "because i played a real pinball machine" is plain silly.

dude, stop nit-pikin and what not

i said i will look at it.

then i might need some time to decide what i am going to do so leave it alone for now.

the PB table pic in this frame is too small.

looks like a 43.

Edited by charley, 01 March 2023 - 05:58 AM.

[Conehead]

I don't know why there's even a debate regarding knowledge/credibility in this space.  Wiesshund has contributed 9,311 posts to this forum, just second behind Noah himself, while receiving 3,747 "likes", so he obviously knows what he's talking about.

[garnel]

I've build two full size tables with three displays and all the toys. One standard with a 40" Vizio 4k display and one widebody with a 42" LG OLED display.

Over the last couple of years Wiesshund has helped me on this forum more times than I can count - and saved me from a butt load of frustration.

[charley]

i never undermined weisshands abilities or anybody here.

maybe nobody has made an effort or knows how to read the program to fix anything.

you guys have only been here 3yrs.

i've been here for 13yrs since 09.

the forum should have stayed with one program and improved on it

the program has become a mashed complicated mess from all the different ideas of how it should work.

it's amazing it works at all.  

Edited by charley, 01 March 2023 - 10:57 PM.

[Conehead]

Just because a person's profile says "Member since..." doesn't necessarily mean that it's accurate.  Ever think of that?

[xenonph]

i never undermined weisshands abilities or anybody here.

maybe nobody has made an effort or knows how to read the program to fix anything.

you guys have only been here 3yrs.

i've been here for 13yrs since 09.

the forum should have stayed with one program and improved on it

the program has become a mashed complicated mess from all the different ideas of how it should work.

it's amazing it works at all.  

Do you not understand how things work? I mean you have been here for 13 years?

 

Do you complain to the people who built the Playstation 5 to upgrade their Playstation 1 that was built years ago?

And since they don't upgrade the old Playstation 1, do you tell them they must not know how to read the program to upgrade the Playstation 1?

Why doesn't Nintendo go back and fix the horrible graphics on the NES? Do they not know how?

Maybe we could get Atari to put better graphics on the Atari 2600?

 

No it is because each of these things have been upgraded, and new features are added each time.

Better Graphics, better sounds, and alot of new things added.

 

Are you mad because you can't rotate a VP8 table with VP8.exe?

Maybe nobody knows how to read the program or fix anything on VP8.exe?

Do you see how stupid and disrespectful that sounds?

 

Show some damn respect for all the work that has been done.

They all are volunteers, and use their own personal spare time, upgrading these programs for all.

Edited by xenonph, 02 March 2023 - 12:29 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

Why doesn't Nintendo go back and fix the horrible graphics on the NES? Do they not know how?

 

 

Hey now!

My NES had Phenomenal graphics
On my 13" color TV

[charley]

Just because a person's profile says "Member since..." doesn't necessarily mean that it's accurate.  Ever think of that?

yeah, youre right.

ive been in and out of here many times

things change.

sorry.........no beef with you

 

i never undermined weisshands abilities or anybody here.

maybe nobody has made an effort or knows how to read the program to fix anything.

you guys have only been here 3yrs.

i've been here for 13yrs since 09.

the forum should have stayed with one program and improved on it

the program has become a mashed complicated mess from all the different ideas of how it should work.

it's amazing it works at all.  

Do you not understand how things work? I mean you have been here for 13 years?

 

Do you complain to the people who built the Playstation 5 to upgrade their Playstation 1 that was built years ago?

And since they don't upgrade the old Playstation 1, do you tell them they must not know how to read the program to upgrade the Playstation 1?

Why doesn't Nintendo go back and fix the horrible graphics on the NES? Do they not know how?

Maybe we could get Atari to put better graphics on the Atari 2600?

 

No it is because each of these things have been upgraded, and new features are added each time.

Better Graphics, better sounds, and alot of new things added.

 

Are you mad because you can't rotate a VP8 table with VP8.exe?

Maybe nobody knows how to read the program or fix anything on VP8.exe?

Do you see how stupid and disrespectful that sounds?

 

Show some damn respect for all the work that has been done.

They all are volunteers, and use their own personal spare time, upgrading these programs

>>>>Do you complain to the people who built the Playstation 5 to upgrade their Playstation 1 that was built years ago>>>>>>

not PlayStation but yes, i complain to customer service

>>>>They all are volunteers, and use their own personal spare time, upgrading these programs>>>>>>>>>

....nvm....carry on....its over...

xeno...you got it all wrong.

im not picking on the table authors.

the tablees are fine.

its the program.

im kind of picking on the bug report team.

the same old bugs were  still in VP9 program for yrs to the end.

the program could be great if the bug report team did something.

 

Edited by charley, 02 March 2023 - 04:19 AM.