27 replies to this topic

[Shoopity]

Here is a summary of the ideas in the original VP10 ideas thread as of 05-30-14.  Please note the following:

I simply went through the thread and copy-pasted the posts with ideas; I may have missed some ideas because it was buried in a post that was mainly about responding to a previous post.

Because I just went through, there are probably some duplicate ideas; I didn't want to be the judge on deciding whether an idea was dup-ed or not since I'm not the one programming

I included the name of the author of the post more so anyone can ask them a specific question about said post

I included the number of likes a post got solely so the devs can possibly get an idea of how important an idea is to the community

On with the list:

 

Joe, 2 likes:

64 bit build

multi core / Multi threading

 

atlantis1982, 2 likes:

Mac and/or Linux support.

 

slydog43, 4 likes:

multiple formats in 1 table file (ie cabinet, desktop, Hybrid all in 1 file)

version control of some sort, like auto updating table to latest version

 

zany, 6 likes:

Global/ambient lightning...instead of day/night versions.

 

fuzzel, 3 likes:

proper lighting: The idea here is to make it as easy as possible to lighten a table, bulb support, real shadows or at least ambient occlusion

material editor: Instead of applying physic settings for each wall again and again, you define a material and assign that material to a table element

physics engine update

library support such like in FP to exchange materials, sound and stuff like that

improved visual effects based on shaders

editor improvements and clean ups because of the mentioned features

 

mukuste, 4 likes:

HDR rendering, this will improve the appearance of lights and also make night mods etc. easier to make by simply having a slider for overall brightness of the scene

real per-pixel lights, possibly shadows, more realistic GI light bulbs

fake indirect lighting from the playfield to make lit insert lights etc illuminate nearby objects

increase the physics framerate from currently 100Hz to something higher (this is already working pretty well in a branch I'm working on)

eliminate FPS dependence of physics (ditto)

true simulation of ball spin and its effect on ball movement and collisions

improve flipper-ball interaction by simulating contact effects properly

 

loadedweapon, 2 likes:

if the editor could be more like FP it would be so much easier to build tables for noobs

 

unclewilly, 2 likes:

a primitive based shapable rubber object similar to fp s rubber object 

 

mfuegemann:

editor options from FP in VP

 

StevOz:

Corrected nudge physics for desktop usage

 

Melon, 3 likes:

Rubber object. Now I'm making it with 6 ramps with different heights and colors

Guide object.

Sensor object

target and droptarget object made with a primitive.

New bumpers (nobody uses the default bumper as is)

B2b collision integrated in the engine. 

Transparent walls, not only ramps.

Wire ramps really need to be updated. I don't think the solution is making it with Future pinball, exporting to blender and exporting to visual pinball.

Light/Flasher object. We specify a point where there is a bulb/ flasher.

Playfield reflections. This adds a lot of realism, I think this is very important. Not everything needs to be reflected, we could have a property for that for every object.

Holes in the playfield

 

gtxjoe, 1 like:

Investigate flipper accuracy

Add more standard objects as melon mentioned, including typicall used posts/standoffs, screw/bolt tops. lamp bulbs, light inserts that look like real playfield inserts.

 

kiwi:

two points at the beginning and at the end of the ramp, instead of one, to create ramps that start in diagonal and perfect connections between ramp and ramp.

 

s1500, 2 likes:

Use the P-ROC sw architecture for modes, which would make programming deeper rulesets 100 times easier. 

 

djrobx, 3 likes:

better performance settings management

 

banzaidrop, 1 likes:

screen option for multiple monitors

full screen or fake full screen option

orientation/rotation option for custom screen setups (90/270° etc.)

 

unclewilly, 5 likes:

back glass integrated into vp similar to fp

 

kiwi:

The plunger launch and nudge controlled by the mouse.

 

Swisslizard:

properly shut down SBScript one the player exits the table

 

Swisslizard, 2 likes:

multi monitor support

 

arngrim:

be able to switch from DOF ini files from feedback to nofeedback files

 

unclewilly:

Wire ramps with 3 sections that are selectable per control point like the fp wire ramps.

With maybe the option for a ring at the control points

 

melon, 1 like:

For primitives and ramps, add a slider for the transparency

And the posibility to add rings at the wire ramps would be sooo great.

 

faralos:

stretchable rubbers like the ones used in FP for custom shaped posts and plastics

a moveable spotlight that can be repositioned or turned off (into another color perhaps?)while playing

the ability to import full motion video clips into the pins... again like FP has

 

arngrim, 3 likes:

Separate sound system for the mechanical sounds, so we can deactivate them more easily

 

bananaboat:

An in game, on screen menu to allow you to make adjustments in real time, such as table size, depth etc...

 

kiwi, 1 like:

It would be nice to have the objects in the editor of different colors depending on the type.

 

freezy, 2 likes:

Define global options in VP that can be read in a table script

 

ClarkKent:

All objects should be mirrored in the playfield, not only the ball. And all objects should draw shadows 

 

slashbot, 2 likes:

analog nudge under the keys section

 

kiwi:

add handles to the control points as in Inkscape

More image formats can be imported.

Negative playfield working, visible objects even under the playing field.

 

unclewilly:

punch holes in a surface

 

clarkkent, 2 likes:

more sounds for the ball bumping into any object on the table (included in the editor, not having to script it)

 

There was quite a bit of discussion about this; how it's achieved now (through lots of scripting and the author having to include the sounds in the table),

and how it's suggested that much of this should be included in the program automatically

 

antropus:

add support to normal maps, specular maps, ambient occlusion and so on

 

kiwi:

the chance to see the skeleton of the objects in addition to the solid

 

sunskift:

An improved standardized plunger interface with increased resolution would be great. 

 

sanovine, 1 like:

Measurements in milimeters, not arbitrary units.. 

 

Lots of talk of using BAM (Better Arcade Mode) with VP.  Does this mean VP is moving into the full 3D realm?

 

Lio, 2 likes:

walls with a given thickness that can be shaped using only one control point (like in the FP editor), (shapeable) rubber object like in FP and wire guides just like in FP.

 

ClarkKent, 1 like:

(Better object selection) (sumarized by shoopity)

 

Pinbotfan, 2 likes:

It would be nice for the editor, especially the backdrop editor to have a setting for 4/3 16/9 16/10 etc. and portrait/landscape.

It would be nice to be able to hold the mouse buttons to adjust the table angle, POV, layback, etc. and maybe shift key and mouse (throw in cursor keys too) for offsets. With visual feedback. Maybe spikes that would show the result of layback. This is a great deal of trial and error for me as it is now.

The plunger needs as high of resolution as you could give it. Count the pixels of an average plunger on the screen. 256? 230 of motion? The plunger needs to be ideal for it to become a standard.

Rubber bands. It's time for VP to get rubbers. A few nice beveled posts thrown in just because.

Isdropped = true and false as the start of a motion, not an end result

 

rysr:

create a new registry location other than the currently new VP9 location that will be for the latest compability release for main use.

 

Javajack:

full polygonal display with ortho/perspective toggle. One table can then work for ANY view angle/cab/desktop.

The editor could have a sideways "elevation" view alongside, and aligned with, the standard top-down view (for Blender users, the "Right Ortho" view, but rotated 90 degrees anticlockwise). In this elevation view you could drag any item to adjust its verticality.

In tandem with this elevation view, the ability to adjust the verticality (and perhaps width) of each point on a ramp. (I've been out of the VP scene for a while. Maybe 3D meshes fulfill this now?)

Others have already suggested it: tubular rubbers (no more fake stacks of walls or ramps to make rubbers look dimensional)

No more storing music in a common folder. It should be with the table itself.

This has also been suggested elsewhere: modular file format.

Commonsense and trivial ergonomic things like making the "Manager" dialog boxes resizable.

 

ClarkKent, 1 like:

Grouping objects

 

Mitchell:

Reshape the flippers.

Use light bulbs instead of bumpers and lights to make those. Flat top and round top.

Spinning lights.

Sideway spinners.

Better sling shots. More real looking.

Better kickers and drains. More real looking as well.

Better ramps.

 

tipoto:

An option to disable Anti-Aliasing on the EMreels.

 

Javajack:

a crash reporter something like Firefox uses

Smooth points and sharp points on walls distinguished by colors so you can see them at a glance.

Change a smooth point to a sharp point and vice-versa by clicking it with a certain key held down such as shift.

Wall Bezier curve editing with control handles like Illustrator/Inkscape.

Ability to scale/rotate items with mouse like Visio/PowerPoint.

 

A lot of talk about using primitives and meshes, what should be included in VP or just have the ability to import from external programs

My personal note here: "Basic" items should be included; wire guides, rollovers, RUBBERS, plastics, screws, etc.

 

javajack:

A more true-to-life default table. That is, instead of the one classic mega-wall for everything, start with:

Playfield 20.25 inches wide

Life size flippers instead of the giant defaults

Realistically-sized wood rails on the outermost edges and bordering the shooter lane

Realistically proportioned thin walls under the flippers down to the drain

Realistically proportioned thin wall arch around the top of the playfield

 

kiwi:

An object that simulates the kicking target,

and an object which when hit by the ball, send the vibration to an other ball, moving it, like a captive ball, maybe fatibile modifying the sling of the wall.

 

v1kt0r52:

Add the using of the 'CurrentAudioDevice' property of the VPinMAME Controller

 

Parcticedummy, 1 like:

Instructions narated by ME

 

javajack:

A "lip" width setting for plastic ramps/habitrails, as well as radius settings for beveling between the walls, floor and lip of ramp

Being able to change the font of the script editor

An explicit way to change the pitch of a sound (as opposed to the recently-added pitch randomization).

 

Shoopity, 1 like:

Common program uses such as middle-click drag = pan

Redo function

 

icpjuggla:

Angle walls

 

unclewilly:

implement convert wall/ramp to primitive

Edited by Shoopity, 30 May 2014 - 08:09 PM.

[fuzzel]

oh man, I like short to-do lists

[Shoopity]

Well, like I said, some of those are duplicates, so you can shorten the list by about... 2 lines ;-).  Plus, some of the suggestions are already in 9.9, and some them are already in 10, and some I know you've said you are already working on putting in 10.

 

As I was making this, the big things that seem to stand out (or maybe the resonated with me simply because I agree with them) were:

#1 Proper rubbers - in the editor this would be a lot like a ramp except it's a closed loop (the end point connects to the start point), you tell it what surface it's on and how high above that surface to "float"; in the simulator it would render as a tubular object (maybe use a 1 wire ramp like JPS already suggested).  Combined with a material section like you already suggested, I think it would be great.

 

#2 Better wire ramps - could just be more options such as where to put rings.

 

A lot of talk about included objects.  I honestly think if you guys just implement the library system like FP has (and as you yourself mentioned), that should honestly be the most work you need to concern yourself with.  Maybe to also include in the program by default an agreed upon, community created set of objects, but you guys don't need about to worry about actually making the objects yourselves.

 

The other stuff like Back Glass inclusion, multi-monitor support, making it full 3D in my personal opinion should be put near the bottom of the list (unless they're very easy to do).  My personal opinion is that you guys (is there really only 2 of you?) should focus on A) making the simulator look better by including today's technology (and you're already well on your way with this) and 2) making it easier for a designer to make a good looking table.  A total noob to the program should be able to come in, put down a slingshot and a light bulb inside of it and have it look like a slingshot that gets illuminated from underneath very easily.  I would even settle for having to "build" it (i.e. put 3 posts down, wrap a rubber around them, put a plastic on top, put screws on top of the posts, and tell the program which side of the slingshot is the actual slingshot).

 

I really hate always bringing up FP, but it got a lot of things right when it came to the design aspect and I don't think it would hurt take a page from it.

Edited by Shoopity, 30 May 2014 - 06:51 PM.

[mukuste]

Thanks for doing this! Was helpful to read over it again in a condensed form. Here's my own list for VP 10.0, mostly items from this wishlist which I consider doable and important for VP:

VP10 TODO

*) Implement Guide (fixed-width wall/wire)

*) Implement Rubber

*) Implement Height for ramp control points

*) Implement rings on wire ramps

*) Implement collidable moving primitives

*) Finish physics overhaul
   - implement ball/ball friction
   - reconcile ball Mass and CollisionMass
   - change slingshots?
   - fix any remaining bugs

*) Implement a ball/ball collision event

*) Implement portrait mode/proper scaling instead of stretching to the viewport

*) Animation for drop targets

------------------------ DONE ------------------------

*) transparent walls
*) get a list of all active balls from script
*) get a list of all table elements from script
*) access an object by name

It's still a pretty long list as you can see

 

In my mind I've postponed all pure editor improvements (colorized outlines, sideway view, UI conveniences...) to later since they don't affect backward compatibility and are easy to add in revisions after 10.0.0.

 

I also think that we should wait with a completely new lighting/rendering pipeline until a later version just because, well, it's a huge project and there's enough on the plate already...

[unclewilly]

could you add

implement convert wall/ramp to primitive

[mukuste]

Yes, I want to have that... but it's a pure editor feature with no effect on backwards compatibility, so maybe after 10.0.0...

[RYSr]

@Mukuste

 

Don't forget to add Analog nudging code revision and update to the VP10 release,

 

Did you get your Virtuapin Controller yet for testing?

 

Rich

[mukuste]

No, I didn't (only Slashbot's U-HID G, thanks). What do you want changed about the nudging code?

[unclewilly]

I think the global difficulty level should be removed.
As I understand it this setting has a direct effect on global and individual object settings like friction elasticity ...
I think this is confusing and makes things harder when it comes to fine tuning a table

[lio]

I agree with uncle willy - at least for now it should be removed and just maybe be reintroduced later on when everything is in place otherwise it's just asking for additional trouble.

[Pinbotfan]

Are you guys suggesting that a setting of zero on global difficulty does not negate the need to get rid of it? If so then I third that. Get rid of it.

[mukuste]

I can agree with that; as far as I remember, the difficulty setting mostly affects slope and scatter, but nobody seems to really use it anyway and it makes it harder for table authors to dial in the right settings, so I think it'll go.

[BigBoss]

I think a proper global difficulty should do things like adjust flipper bat length, outlane posts, and slope. I agree it should be gone in its current state. Adding scatter sounds horrible.

[RYSr]

No, I didn't (only Slashbot's U-HID G, thanks). What do you want changed about the nudging code?

 

In previous posts about adjusting the keyboard nudging you mentioned that the code for keyboard and analog should all be rewritten similarly

 

The present code seems unstable at times to me and seems to favor nudging to one side more than the other at times.

 

I just though after what a fabulous job you did on the table/ball physics and keyboard nudging, Analog nudging is just a little bit jealous

 

In the attached test table the ball rolls in the direction of the nudge similar to (but not as strong) as the old keyboard nudging did before you modified it. The analog nudge should work similarly.

 

Rich

Attached Files

•  z Accelerometer Level Test FS.vpt   88KB   7 downloads

Edited by RYSr, 01 June 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[Pinbotfan]

Priceless

[Slydog43]

+1 for analog nudging fix, actually only if it could not be fixed later as the list does look quite long and ambitious.

[mpad]

Hey you forgot my idea of multichannel speaker setup or proper 5.1 / 7.1 support No I really just like to know if this is on anybody elses wishlist or totally off? Idea was the ability configure output for every channel. For example I have front speaker in the Backglas, surround down in the middle of the cab and center down at the coin door. It would be great to redirect physics and sfx to surround for that purpose. And better use for standard pc audio system fo cab builds.

Edited by mpad, 07 June 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[Shoopity]

Hey you forgot my idea of multichannel speaker setup or proper 5.1 / 7.1 support No I really just like to know if this is on anybody elses wishlist or totally off? Idea was the ability configure output for every channel. For example I have front speaker in the Backglas, surround down in the middle of the cab and center down at the coin door. It would be great to redirect physics and sfx to surround for that purpose. And better use for standard pc audio system fo cab builds.

 

Actually, that might be pretty cool for some of the environemental sounds... like, any sounds that VP makes (ball rolling, flipper, wall hits, etc) would be positional but Pinmame only uses the primary left and right (of course, any change to ROM sounds would have to be done by VPM anyway).  Although, for original tables there were have to be the distinction between environmental sounds and game sounds.  But still, I'm not sure I've heard fuzzel or mukuste ever comment on positional environmental sounds.

[neohusky]

Any chance of adding the ability to use 2 separate joystick inputs. 1 for plunger and another for analog nudge?

[Carny_Priest]

 

Hey you forgot my idea of multichannel speaker setup or proper 5.1 / 7.1 support No I really just like to know if this is on anybody elses wishlist or totally off? Idea was the ability configure output for every channel. For example I have front speaker in the Backglas, surround down in the middle of the cab and center down at the coin door. It would be great to redirect physics and sfx to surround for that purpose. And better use for standard pc audio system fo cab builds.

 

Actually, that might be pretty cool for some of the environemental sounds... like, any sounds that VP makes (ball rolling, flipper, wall hits, etc) would be positional but Pinmame only uses the primary left and right (of course, any change to ROM sounds would have to be done by VPM anyway).  Although, for original tables there were have to be the distinction between environmental sounds and game sounds.  But still, I'm not sure I've heard fuzzel or mukuste ever comment on positional environmental sounds.

 

 

First mention of 5.1 setups made me think. Is this serious? What are you going to do? Pipe in ambient arcade noise behind you? But I get it, and I'm warming up to the idea. 

 

Backglass sounds can already be split from table sounds in VP. I have my playfield screen connected via HDMI to an NVIDIA GTX660. The card has audio drivers, so it is putting out an audio signal through HDMI as well as a video signal. I simply have VP direct table sounds to the TV and then turn up the volume.

 

Due to the screen orientation that means left TV speaker is located at the top of the playfield and right TV speaker at the bottom. I don't know if any authors make use of this to locate sounds with one speaker or another. It may all be mono.

 

It's an interesting idea that it may be possible to position environmental sounds in five or seven different areas under the playfield. In practice, the inside of the cabinet is really close quarters. There may not be enough separation for the human ear to distinguish that closely versus stereo, especially over the usual backglass/game output.