17 replies to this topic

[pharaoh]

OK.. I think we have enough "fantasy type" dB2S submissions Let's try to go for authentic representations.

I know people prefer backglass mods as close to the original tables as possible but are not speaking up. so I will

Fantasy type.. BOO Authentic Type.. YAY

[Bob5453]

Simple. Don't download the fantasy Backglasses if you don't want them and create the authentic backglasses you want and upload them for everyone.

There can be multiple backglass versions just the same as there are multiple table versions, so get to work.

[TedB]

OK.. I think we have enough "fantasy type" dB2S submissions Let's try to go for authentic representations.

I know people prefer backglass mods as close to the original tables as possible but are not speaking up. so I will

Fantasy type.. BOO Authentic Type.. YAY

 

 

People should do what they like to do. You don't have to download them. I appreciate both the fantasy and the authentic dB2S submissions. 

[ArcadiusMaximus]

Which is why some people suggested both an Authentic and Fantasy back glass section. Besides, some back glasses are just a static image...Whats the fun in that?? To say "we have enough" is kind of rude considering this is all being done on free time and given a way for nothing......You trollin' Bro?

Edited by ArcadiusMaximus, 19 February 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Aurich]

I couldn't care less if they're accurate or not. I care with the table, that's gameplay and it matters. The backglass is purely for fun (minus the ocassional Scared Stiff spider) and people should do whatever they like.

If you don't like it make your own, the tool should be available for anyone soon.

[Fulltilt]

Having a section for both Authentic and Fantasy would  be a good idea i think, even though I will download and try both ..I prefer to see the imagination and creativity in the fantasy BG's. 

[Aaron James]

I absolutely LOVE the fantasy ones!!!!! IMO, the more flashing lights the better.

[AaronShupp]

Pharaoh nothing is stopping YOU from making authentic ones if you'd rather see those hosted here. Don't bite the hand that feeds you or you won't be eating at all.

[Aaron James]

Haha, I actually wish attack and revenge from mars had MORE backglass activity, haha, and that has plenty! We have so many talented and giving people on this forum, why stunt the creativity? Bring on Riverboat Gambler enhanced backglass!!!!!!!! :-)

[rob046]

Well, this forum is mostly dedicated to recreated pinball tables, so I don't think its a crime for a member to wish for more efforts to go toward true reproduction rather than fan fiction art.  I personally don't like it either as I'm a bit of a purist & think it can be disrespectful to alter things too much but still call it a recreation, & potentially dangerous as you don't want to anger original game manufacturers or designers by messing with their designs too much.  Or, if you want to alter art, go all the way with it.  Like do what Bob sometimes does which is use a classic layout, but put all of your own art on it & your own spin on the game.

 

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, it is actually a legit concern that we in the hobby need to be careful about.  & out of all things, pinball artists over the years have spent most their time on backglasses, the true art piece of every pinball game.  & so for that reason I really don't like seeing people instead downloading something thrown together in photoshop instead of, say, a Youssi classic art piece that he spent months on.  The point of recreations is to preserve machines that we all aren't able to experience, & see what they are like.  I'm not saying people can't or shouldn't try custom BG art.  This is just my personal feeling on the matter.

 

However, I don't even use B2S so what do I care?  Although I do think these BG's not being labeled as "fantasy" or "alternate" in the file name is an issue.  I know in the descriptions it might be explained, but I think it should be in the file name too just to make things clearer for everybody, plus not everybody takes time to read file descriptions, especially when you are only downloading a backglass.  & also not everybody is aware of what the original BG art to a game looks like, & so even through a screenshot they might not know any better.  You don't want anybody quickly grabbing a file & them not knowing they don't have the original backglass art.

I'm all for the creativity on original tables though.  This is exactly what original tables are for, to be creative.

[ArcadiusMaximus]

I think you may be misinterpreting the 'fantasy' part. It's not a fantasy glass in the respects of a custom backglass image being used vs the original. It's more of a custom lighting scheme that is being implemented. I'm pretty sure every b2s that has come out so far has used the actual tables backglass art, just some of the lighting effects have been enhanced. The enhancement was more of a test really to see what the Directb2s server could handle and not cause performance issues. I guess in terms of being accurate you would be cncorrect so I can see where you're coming from. In another sense some glasses are just utterly boring. So I guess its up to the end user which one they would like to use. I'm sure once the editor comes out there is going to be a massive in flux of new glasses both accurate and fantasy.

Edited by ArcadiusMaximus, 20 February 2013 - 03:16 AM.

[rob046]

No, before I posted I was just looking at a couple BG's that art wise are nothing like the originals.  Star Wars for example.

Yes there are some ugly backglasses that use photos that I'm all for replacing, as some people even replace those in real life, like some mid 80's Gottlieb stuff.  But in general most real backglasses are worth looking at.

Edited by rob046, 20 February 2013 - 03:28 AM.

[The Loafer]

Hmmm, are there not alternate backglasses that people use in real life?  I suspect that would piss off the original backglass artist more than what we see here, which is a few more lights flashing around which 90% plus fantasy backglasses seem to reflect thus far.

 

I do understand and agree with part of it, but I would challenge the "careful" comment considering we are using unauthorized art to begin with.  if there's an area that would piss off artists more, its people using their art, period.  If one was to look at being careful from your POV, we should probably look at redraws that are not 100% as to some artists could be seen as insulting as a misrepresentation of their artwork and quality as artists (never mind the fact without redraws, we wouldn't have any decent art for many of these pins since they just don't exist in decent shape!).  I have to agree with your comment that the backglass is where the art really shines on a pin though, some really are works of art, I just am not convinced that's an area of concern more than any use of copyrighted stuff we currently do.  Your POV was well explained though and certainly can make us think on this.

 

I think fantasy stuff can be cool, look at the entire Flash table retheme, that's a pretty cool idea, well implemented.  But I have to agree I do think it can only help the membership if we categorize these though, so that's a great idea and I support it completely.

 

I don't think anyone has any problems with a member hoping there are more "real" b2s backglasses then fantasy, the only issue is ask for it in a way that seems less to do with entitlement.  In saying that, those smilies were there for a reason, I do think the comments from Pharaoh were very much tongue in cheek.

[Aurich]

potentially dangerous as you don't want to anger original game manufacturers or designers by messing with their designs too much

Please. Can we leave the ridicoulous hyperbole out of this conversation? No one is endangering the hobby by adding some animated lights to a backglass, let alone making new ones like that Star Wars one.

[Liteuser]

I agree that fantasy BG art should be labeled as fantasy. It just makes it clear to everyone that its not the real deal art work.

 

On real BG images some times its hard to get the right lighting for a good photo and some times the photo maybe a little blurry. When you don't have a good looking BG image to use for a table you have to search for better or take what you can get for now. Usually that is the case as most real BG images are not perfect because they are made with photos and not a true scale scan of the actual back glass art work.

 

B2S is nice and all but i only use a desktop PC for VP and FP and a static BG image is good enough for me.

[marauder]

This topic has been floating around on other threads too. I think that the general consensus is that everyone is fine with "enhanced" or "fantasy" backglasses as long as we all know which is which and we can tell them apart from "recreations".

I always faced retro gaming emulation (whether arcade or pinball) as an effort in preserving a bit of history from the 20th century. That's why I prefer more accurate recreations but that doesn't stop me from having enhanced backglasses on my cab alongside the recreations. They're just so damn cool! I just want to know which are recreations and which are fantasy.

[faralos]

so drop a label on the fantasy ones to keep them separate from the 'real' ones and all is solved

I don't use any of these fantasy bg's since I still play on a desktop monitor

but it sounds like a cool concept to make a static (i.e. boring) bg 'come alive'

from the use of a few well placed lights and such on it!

So where and when is the editor for making these cool B2's coming out?

Even though I don't use them doesn't mean I can't make 'em for others to enjoy!

and as for 'pissing off the designers' I highly doubt they even know of these sites

 let alone actually follow what we are doing with their artwork and pins

and even if they do I'd hope they'd think it's a cool idea

to preserve what may be long gone in the real world

[troyguitarman]

If you didn't like fantasy, wouldn't you be playing real machines instead? Visual Pinball means a fantasy of real pinball for me. No matter how good a simulation is, it is never gonna be real, it is going to be fantasy

Edited by troyguitarman, 23 February 2013 - 09:42 AM.