17 replies to this topic

[teppotee]

File Name: X-Files FS GI BMPR MOD
File Submitter: teppotee
File Submitted: 24 Jan 2013
File Category: VP 9.x MOD Cabinet Tables (FULL SCREEN)
Author(s): jpsalas
teppotee
Manufacturer: Sega
Year: 1997
Permission to MOD?: No

This MOD is a update to master JP's X-Files table and released with his permission.
 
I know JP's doing an update round of all his tables but here's a version with some new features while waiting for the official update

My changes:
- Redrawn lights
- Darker playfield
- B2B and BMPR ball routines
- New alpha ramp textures
- Flasher Halo effetcs
- Slingshot flasher effects
- Physics tweaked
- Layback settings
- New scripted GI effects
- New flasher effect on the file cabinet
 
Thanks to jimmyfingers for the flasher halo graphics and the original BMPR scripting.
 
Regards,
-Teppo-

Click here to download this file

[bolt]

Thank you for release.

[thewool]

Another quality mod Teppotee - cheers for sharing! 

 

IMO this is an underated table with a good theme and some decent modes. JP really did this build justice well, I really like most of your tweaks. Again the overall lighting seems really effective to me. Halos look really good. Sling flashers still a touch too bright for me, pf colours are too saturated (repeating myself ).

 

On the BMPR, while I am a fan of Jimmy's mod and think it does get closer to realism. I think sometimes it can make the ball feel like it does not have enough mass. A pinball is a weighty object and sometimes the implementation of BMPR can make it feel light, move too fast and make the effect of rubbers feel exaggerated. That said I think you've used it well in your mods, but is there an easy way to disable it? I've played the real X-Files and had my previous VP version well setup, it would be interesting to try both sets of settings just to compare.

 

Cheers once again for uploading!! 

Edited by thewool, 24 January 2013 - 11:40 PM.

[maceman]

Well, you've made me load up the cab now!  Looking forward to trying these new releases!

Thanx again!

Maceman

[jimmyfingers]

On the BMPR, while I am a fan of Jimmy's mod and think it does get closer to realism. I think sometimes it can make the ball feel like it does not have enough mass. A pinball is a weighty object and sometimes the implementation of BMPR can make it feel light, move too fast and make the effect of rubbers feel exaggerated. That said I think you've used it well in your mods, but is there an easy way to disable it? I've played the real X-Files and had my previous VP version well setup, it would be interesting to try both sets of settings just to compare.

 

Sorry, but I fully disagree with you about the BMPR making things lighter (when properly implemented).  It was the foundation of why I built it as to make the ball feel heavier BUT it needs the friction set much higher and works better with slightly higher gravity as these two things are a foundation for the BMPR to achieve this effect (all of these recent BMPR mods by Teppotee have the friction at .0025 which is too low for working as intended with the BMPR’s augmenting ball speed algorithms).  Also, the slopes have to be dropped down when the BMPR is used as mentioned numerous times.  These physics increases gave the ball extra weight and slowed it down BUT then the routine could kick and be responsible for helping augment it’s travel and so it didn't  drag slowly down table, fail to make it across the table laterally, or die out on an apex up table. 

 

Please, once again, be careful of how the system is judged while people other than myself are attempting to implement it as many things are missed and not set the same as one of my BMPR MODs which I spend many many hours assessing and tweaking . For another thing on these tables is that there is no rubber / table object physics adjustment and dampening routine implementation which essentially a big part of my physics tuning even though not incorporated directly into the BMPR (without it the balls bounce too soft at spots or can fly off of a rubber on a hard hit).  This dampening mod and rubber turning on it’s own and without the BMPR would be an improvement to the physics but is just part of a suite of routines and changes that are made when I’ve done a BMPR release.  If you play the Sorcerer BMPR MOD or BSD, I really can’t see how you can think that the ball does not look more weighty and realistic and when you see it in an upcoming PIN-BOT MOD, I’ll be very surprised if people really can’t tell me that it plays quite realistically, slower (but with appropriate acceleration), and with ball weightiness.

 

I appreciate people's interest and the goal is for people to add it (effectively) on their own but when parameters are changed greatly and people judge the BMPR just because someone has attempted an implementation without my other routines and hours of tweaking, I feel it actually does the reputation of the routine and my work a disservice. 

 

I’m not trying to discourage people from adding it, appreciate Teppotee’s work, and others trying to work with it, but I AM trying to discourage inaccurate views that arrive from tables that have the name BMPR MOD but stray greatly from my parameters and are absent with regards to the auxillary routines and tables tweaks.

[thewool]

Hello jimmy, like you physics are critical to me. Part of the fun of VP is getting a table to behave like the real thing. I mentioned i'm a fan of Your routine and Your mods have all been top drawer. I was not referring to your tables, on that score you are preaching to the converted But you said it, i said it, only when it's properly implemented and this is the challenge as its complex. You're its Dad so you should know the nuts and bolts

For other people's mods and tables it would be nice to have an on/off option if possible but i don't think its this easy? The vanilla VP physics have really come on with people trying new things, people who own or play real pins. To the point where they can come really really close. All i was saying was that i'm not sure if the routine has added a lot to this particular table and i Would like to tinker with the standard physics.

Regardless, still a great mod

P.s. excuse the syntax, bloomin tablet... & lookin forward to pinbot have played the real one a lot

Edited by thewool, 25 January 2013 - 12:52 AM.

[jimmyfingers]

For other people's mods and tables it would be nice to have an on/off option if possible but i don't think its this easy?

It is actually quite easy to turn off as I've incorporated, in the coding of the routine, a one line parameter that you can set to false "const MomentumEnabled=True" (change to False).  However, do me a favour and before you just disable it entirely, try out the values I posted in the Tommy thread first (or after) but at least if you're going to disable it, give the quick and dirty settings I posted a whirl (won't do anything about flippers or rubber objects / routines but it will be noticeable).  Heck, try out some other values as I've put internal documentation in the routine to explain basically what each parameter does (play around with them and even use extreme values if you want to exaggerate the effect and visually see what the more subtle values would be doing)

 

You're right, I am BMPR's daddy and as such am pretty passionate about it.  If all I ever did was add it to my cab / personal modded tables and enjoy it with my friends and family it would have been worth the work - but I want other people to be able to experience the increase in virtual pinball enjoyment that I have and give back to the community.   But yes, it is complicated (admittedly even more so that most stuff in VP which is already a bit of a beast in some regards), especially with utilizing the other suite of physics related routines I've created, so it is not immediately easy for other's to add or understand.  I'll try and set aside a weekend to write a tutorial and see how things go from there.

 

Thanks again Teppotee for releasing your work and I don't want the discussion about the BMPR / physics to side track from the work you've done and sharing your efforts with us.  I know it's a beast on it's own to simply get the B2B portion working, so a big thanks to you and anyone who releases tables with even just that bit added.

[teppotee]

Heh... the funny thing is that jimmy pointed out in a PM that the momentumTImer is disabled by default in this release and it's not doing the BMPR processing

 

It's just funny how the perception of the ball movement can change when you think it's doing something when it's not! I have changed the settings so many times that I just uploaded the wrong version (no other changes).

 

I will probably release another version once I have had time to work on the BMPR a bit more (hopefully with jimmy's assistance). I really think it can add to the experience when done right.

 

I tried different values for the BMPR script for this (and 2 other MODs I just released) and tried on purpose to make the effect a bit more subtle. Maybe just because I didn't have the skills to start going through all "rubber / table object physics adjustments etc.". But obviously it requires more work to get the full benefits of BMPR (like in jimmy's own releases).

[teppotee]

Howdy... Just uploaded version 2. I suggest to give it a shot!

 

Added a lot of new GI so it looks MUCH better in action.

 

I also adjusted physics to make it play a bit slower and more realistically (and the BMPR is activated this time although this is not yet jimmyfingers approved BMPR MOD ). I'm sure there is still room for tweaking but I think it plays much better now.

 

I actually had a change to play a real pinball machine for the first time in almost two years (they are really rare here in Finland and I just don't have room to own one ). So it truly made me realize how much more work / adjusting there is to make VP play realistically. So if anyone has time / knowledge to tweak the physics more then please let me know!

[thewool]

Hello Teppotee, thanks for making some further changes

 

had some games on this tonight and here's some comments which I hope you find constructive.

 

The way the ball moves generally around the table seems good and fairly realistic. Thats said at times the flippers seem too strong, one chance hit and the ball moves faster than the eye can see. Jimmy seems to recommend a higher gravity setting and higher contact friction but I see you stuck with the more standard settings so I'm not sure if this is a factor. Did you add Jimmy's flipper tap routines, there did not seem to be much control at the ends of the flippers.

 

There is something going on with the GI textures. They seems to be moving slightly when activated, I think this was also happening in Batman?

 

Last thing and it may be a personal preference but I think you've overcooked the lighting. When the playfield is dark everything looks nice, but when lit there is a lot of oversaturated images from the playfield to the ramp decals to the plastics. The colours have maxed out and look very unnatural. When the GI is on, Mulder and Scully look like they have spent far too much time on the sunbed.

 

I really hope you keep working on this mod. It is a great table that and the mod has the potential to be fantastic with some more fine tuning.

 

Cheers! 

[htamas]

Actually, the flippers sort of remind me of FP flippers

At least proper aiming and making a shot is almost just as hard and unpredictable.

I'll try to tweak some settings to make them more realistic, although I have to admit, I'm not really good at this.

 

Other than this, I really like this table, good job. Thank you.

[thewool]

Actually, the flippers sort of remind me of FP flippers

At least proper aiming and making a shot is almost just as hard and unpredictable.

I'll try to tweak some settings to make them more realistic, although I have to admit, I'm not really good at this.

 

Other than this, I really like this table, good job. Thank you.

 

I disagree, not saying thet could do without further tweaking but shot wise I was doing ok hitting the ramps, orbits, targets, filing cabinet, hole, etc. It was the inconsistent speed and ball and lack of control that occasionally let things down.

[htamas]

Try to hit the file cabinet from a cradled ball or one that's coming though the inlane. It's nearly impossible because the flipper at the base is similarly weak like as if I'd play a FP table.

Now try to make the same shot with a ball coming from somewhere the middle of the playfield, hitting it closer to the tip of the flipper. That will be a lot easier but this is not how a real machine would behave IMO.

[maceman]

This plays FANTASTIC, so I am not sure if my cab plays different or what.

 

This plays fantastic, one of the best mods i've seen actually.

 

Maceman

[thewool]

Try to hit the file cabinet from a cradled ball or one that's coming though the inlane. It's nearly impossible because the flipper at the base is similarly weak like as if I'd play a FP table.

Now try to make the same shot with a ball coming from somewhere the middle of the playfield, hitting it closer to the tip of the flipper. That will be a lot easier but this is not how a real machine would behave IMO.

 

 

May I suggest a test using a flipper speed of 0.8 and a strength of 0.17 (might be able to reduce it further). Also you could bump up the power law in small increments.

[teppotee]

Just uploaded version 2.1.

 

I tried to fix all reported graphics issues including image alignment and "sunburnt" Mulder & Scully. Added and redrawn some other GI as well.

 

I also changed the flipper settings totally. (I took the settings from my GNR MOD). I didn't have that much time to test those but at least they made hitting the cabinet in the middle easier and also I didn't get those super-fast shots anymore.

 

I'm hoping that the graphics are now done. If there are things to tweak further in the physics department -> please let me know if you have better settings to try. I don't think I can make it play any better anymore.

 

-Teppo-

[htamas]

This is excellent now, thank you very much for the update.

[maceman]

Fantastic! Thanx again for your work on this. It is a fantastic table.

Maceman