17 replies to this topic

[xio]

I'm trying to learn how to build VP tables, and I think I need some help.

I began with this great tutorial from wtiger, and then trying to reproduce the lesson on recreating Twister table.

1. Here's what I've done so far. I stopped when reaching the lights part, thought it was better to redo the beginning with another table.




I cannot find the old "upload image" function, where is it ?

As you can see, the flippers look transparent, whereas rubber color is black, what could I've done wrong ?

2. wtiger gives some textures & images in his tuto (metal for guides, lockdown bar, for example). Is there a place where we may find this kind of ressources ?
(I found some images in the ressource section but it's only old style bumpers/targets)

3. Is there others step by step buiilding tutotrial like the one above ? Any volunteer to finish the Independence Day tuto ?

4. Rails (p7 on the tutorial) : why do we need to have 4 objects (2 wall & 2 ramps) to make the siderail, 1 wall or ramp wouldn't be enough ?

5. I found some Twister pictures, but cannot find good pictures of the decals. Does anyone have high resolution pictures ?

6. I'll need to convert the table to FS when it's done (in a few years... ), do I have to pay attention to something while building the desktop version so the FS conversion will be easy ?


Thx for help, and let's hope I'll be able to release some tables to the community one day

[Noah Fentz]

I'm trying to learn how to build VP tables, and I think I need some help.

I began with this great tutorial from wtiger, and then trying to reproduce the lesson on recreating Twister table.

1. Here's what I've done so far. I stopped when reaching the lights part, thought it was better to redo the beginning with another table.




I cannot find the old "upload image" function, where is it ?

At the very top of every page, you'll see 'VPF Image Host'. Click on that.

As you can see, the flippers look transparent, whereas rubber color is black, what could I've done wrong ?

Change the color to something not RGB 0,0,0. Pure black is transparent in the editor.

2. wtiger gives some textures & images in his tuto (metal for guides, lockdown bar, for example). Is there a place where we may find this kind of ressources ?
(I found some images in the ressource section but it's only old style bumpers/targets)

Under Design Resources at the top, you'll find some bumper caps and target images. If you'd like something specific, just ask.

3. Is there others step by step buiilding tutotrial like the one above ? Any volunteer to finish the Independence Day tuto ?

4. Rails (p7 on the tutorial) : why do we need to have 4 objects (2 wall & 2 ramps) to make the siderail, 1 wall or ramp wouldn't be enough ?

Not sure on these, as I am not familiar with the table tutorial anymore. Not sure there has ever been a more detailed tutorial, either.

5. I found some Twister pictures, but cannot find good pictures of the decals. Does anyone have high resolution pictures ?

I'm sure I have more pictures of Twister. I'll have to dig them up.

6. I'll need to convert the table to FS when it's done (in a few years... ), do I have to pay attention to something while building the desktop version so the FS conversion will be easy ?

That question could result in a very long answer. Just keep in mind, anything made 2D to fake 3D can and will be affected by POV changes.

Thx for help, and let's hope I'll be able to release some tables to the community one day

Looking forward to it!

[faralos]

Rails for balls use invisible walls for the collision factor it's the ramps on top of them you actually see
usually with a 'wire' image of some color on them and set to wire form. Check out Itchigos table template
or most of my pins. Okay see that upload list box under Noahs' and my avatar pics, clicking on that opens
a new window with all that persons pins and other things made with vp or fp.
All my tables also are free to tear into to look at code or table building
along with how graphics are used (sound effects and music too)

[xio]

At the very top of every page, you'll see 'VPF Image Host'. Click on that.

Thx Noah for taking the time to answer, I think you've got a lot on your plate atm with the new forum. Got the Image host back !

Change the color to something not RGB 0,0,0. Pure black is transparent in the editor.

The wall with pure black top or side do look black, why isn't it the same for the flippers ?

Under Design Resources at the top, you'll find some bumper caps and target images. If you'd like something specific, just ask.

My question was more about textures, lights, and every image that wtiger uses in his tutorial, just like it's pulled out of a magician hat
I thought there might be a place with this kind of ressources organized by type (bumper texture, rail texture, wire texture, lights, lockdown bar, .... ) so developers only ask when needing something that's not in the library.

Not sure on these (q3 & q4), as I am not familiar with the table tutorial anymore. Not sure there has ever been a more detailed tutorial, either.

I made a few tries and undestood why there was 2 ramps and 1 wall to make the siderail, but I don't understand the use of the first wall (bottom = top = 50).

This tuto is a really good way for beginners to learn how to build a table, still looking for volunteer to help finishing it !

I'm sure I have more pictures of Twister. I'll have to dig them up.

It would be great, for decals/plastics right now but I'm pretty sure I'll need other images later.

That question could result in a very long answer. Just keep in mind, anything made 2D to fake 3D can and will be affected by POV changes.

Fake 3D should be the way wtiger did his vuk. Is there an alternative to do it "FS compliant" ?

Rails for balls use invisible walls for the collision factor it's the ramps on top of them you actually see
usually with a 'wire' image of some color on them and set to wire form. Check out Itchigos table template
or most of my pins. Okay see that upload list box under Noahs' and my avatar pics, clicking on that opens
a new window with all that persons pins and other things made with vp or fp.
All my tables also are free to tear into to look at code or table building
along with how graphics are used (sound effects and music too)

Thx Faralos for giving permission to use your tables. I also found an image pack from you that should be helpful in my search for ressources.
About the rails/collision factor I didn't understand whay you mean (sorry english is not my native tongue), is it an answer to my siderails question ?

[faralos]

side rails like the type used for ball guides is what I meant
any graphic questions or if you want some help
just ask I can help you as you go along with things like plastics,
and textures and such
also that pin you are learning on for better looking plastics set their sides
either to invisible or to a dark blue not white like they are now.
White just looks weird.. or you can make a real thin rail
around their outsides to simulate ink on clear plastics
since that said rail will look like the outside wall.
Okay I am probably getting beyond you here so continue going and let us know
if you have any problems.
oh what I like to use for ball images is a 64 by 64 bmp image
jpegs for back glass images usually 800 by 600.
It was mentioned you can export a blueprint of the play field.
You can also do the same for the back glass once you set your text boxes.
That is how you work on the art for your backdrops if you want one.
Look there is w-a-y too much stuff to tell you about here,
but like I said earlier tear into a few pins look at how stuff is set with images.
play around in art programs...have fun and keep us posted...

okay here is what I meant Table and image too

Attached Files

•  Ball Rail Guides.JPG   49.66KB   19 downloads
•  Rail Guides.rar   126.4KB   3 downloads

Edited by faralos, 24 September 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[xio]

Indeed you're much beyond me I'll check your table & the others, and hope I'll be able to see what you mean.

I met another problem while continuing wtiger tutorial, at this step with the LOCK images : everytime I import the svg file in Gimp, it's either grey or too large (and become grey when I reduce it). What should I do to have a "small" image with real or better black letters ?

[faralos]

when you see grey in the background ion Gimp that means you are using either a png or a gif
when you load up a jpeg or bmp you get no grey in the background
to get rid of it try saving either as a bmp or jpeg
here is the chiller font I used for my Childs Play pin. I saved the letters as bmp 600 by 800
you can then go into Gmp or Photoshop to redo any font you desire letter by letter if necessary
if you are still lost on what to do PM me and give me an idea of the effect you are looking for
and I will do it for you

Attached Files

•  letters.JPG   40.88KB   8 downloads

Edited by faralos, 26 September 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[xio]

Still building and trying to learn, I've reached the end of wtiger tutorial and I find myself with a pretty table but not playable.

I tried to make the next steps : scripting the plunger, adding light & lightcontrol routines, adding switchs.

If anyone wants to have a look on what I've done so far & tell me the things that are wrong, it could be helpful. Here's my tmp table : http://www.mediafire...adk3xb5dkfaesap
You'll see that there's a problem with the ramp finishing in the right outlane : it was working well but now the ball is blocked by something but I cannot find what.

There's something in particular that I don't really get : the difference between the solcallback = x.solout and the same subroutine ?

Example for plunger scripting :

SolCallBack(17) = "TroughLock"

Sub TroughLock(Enabled)
If Enabled Then
Trough.ExitSol_On
BallRelease.CreateBall.Image="Ballimage8r2"
TroughUpKicker.AddBall 0
End If
End Sub
Sub BallShooter_Hit:AutoShooter.AddBall 0:End Sub

Before looking in Neatron's table I had only SolCallBack(17) = "TroughLock.SolOut" but nothing was happening
=> What's the difference ?
=> Why is the BallShooter_Hit needed ?


Also, I copied code from JP's tables in order to make my future lights : am I allowed to do this ?

When I feel I'm done enough with ID4 to be able to start scripting I should get into Twister : good quality pictures are still needed for this one, can u check your archives ?

Edited by xio, 03 October 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[faralos]

Most of the table builders who are actively creating pins will let you take
their toys and use it providing if there is Remmed out code that shows their name
by all means save that too to show you did not make it but are just incorporating it into your pin
that is just good manners and most likely assures use of their toys in your future endeavors.
But for future builds why not just use one of the many existing table templates?
They have start and end code and a few use custom plungers too for nicety.
All you have to do is add your custom stuff into one or look at them to learn from.
Most of us do as it's far easier too to not have to code start and end routines (if known how to too!)
as well as build our monstrosi...creations!

Edited by faralos, 03 October 2012 - 02:00 PM.

[xio]

Thanks Faralos for answering. I won't forget to add names of those I'll take code from, as you're telling.

I don't really know about tables templates, but for now I think building from the beginning is a better way to learn.

I finally found out why my ramp was blocked (an hidden collidable ramp), but now the same problem is happening with the VUK, and I cannot find what is blocking the ball.
Here's the new tmp table : http://www.mediafire...v76d7omiuydb6j0 , hope someone can tell me about this problem and/or any other errors I could have made.

I spent one hour to make my "subway" work, and I'm not even sure it does work the way it should (reading scripting 102 and using RIBON as an example) .... I'm having trouble finding which is the right switch to activate or what does need a solenoid (trough or VUK), I've still a lot to learn so every hint will be appreciated.

That's really too bad that the tutorial stopped before reaching this part, wtiger was really well explaining things.

Note for Noah, if you're reading : why is this topic not in the "latest posts" list ?

Edited by xio, 04 October 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[faralos]

Are you doing a rom table? See I just make ones that use NO roms
just complete originals, so I am a little lost on some of that coding
but the vuk block problem I can probably help with if not outright fix
I was gonna point you to the download area for table templates
but this is far easier just download this:

http://www.speedysha...er-Template.zip

as I could not get a link to happen for the darn thing on this site
Tim or rather Itchigo made a basic table that is a four player one
these templates lay out basic gameplay a few sounds and that's about it.
But they are FAR easier to build a custom pin into than to try it from ground up
as you are doing and again learning is half the fun so glean what you can from that template
and most of all have fun...(amidst all the cursing and throwing things!)

Please do understand that not everything needs a callout to the author. Like posts, rubbers, slings, etc
these are for general use by anyone. Only special things (jp's fantastic animated plunger that resides in all Itchigos template)
toys that require lots of code ( cannons, spin discs, animations, etc.) should

[faralos]

Woohoo! I found your vuk ball sticking problem!
I had to go back into Wtigers tutorial to find why though
your ramp is too low for proper clearance
look at the heights of his and yours, yours sits too low
and therefore the ball hangs up on the ramp under it

Attached Files

•  1 correct ramp height.JPG   114.29KB   13 downloads
•  2 your ramp height.JPG   107.95KB   15 downloads

[xio]

I think it cannot be this ramp : it's only a copy/paste from the 180 height one but with a 6h wall, to make a shadow of the 180 ramp. You should find the 180 ramp if you delete or move the 174 one.
Furthermore it's not collidable, so it wont block anything.

[faralos]

darn it! I thought I had it too oh well back to the ol' drawing board I guess
I'll take a more in depth look into it today...sorry for raising false hopes

[xio]

I got it, it was the long ramp below that was blocking the ball. I had to delete every ramp one by one to find out, but now I've raised the VUK ramp from 125 to 130 and it's working.

Now back to the script, any help about what I've written so far is welcome !

[xio]

New version with virus hole, lights, and the two flashers that wtiger made us draw : http://www.mediafire...47r4br4n1zr77xj
New version = new problems :
- some lights just stay yellow, whereas they should use the different PF as images
- the virus light looks ON on start
- the ball sometimes is blicked on the long ramp from up-left to bottom-right
- no idea how to make these flasher flash
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure I've tested the new virus hole :/

Note for Noah following precedent note to Noah : the topic does now appear in the latest posts list, thanks !

Edited by xio, 06 October 2012 - 11:29 AM.

[xio]

The lights are now working, I found on the forum that the circle lights don't work with PF images so I replaced them with custom shapes.

Thanks to JP's explanation about the way he gets the solenoid number, I made the two flashers work. But they just look bad, not like flashers that enlight everything around them. I don't know if it's possible with VP to make more "dynamic" lights ?

I can't explain why the ball get stucked sometimes on the upper-left to bottom-right ramp, can someone have a look on it ?

Last version, which is quite playable imho : http://www.mediafire...20yr3zd6kukbyvg


Now I think about going back to my Twister wip, but got too few and too poor quality pictures to make something good, can anybody help with that ?

Edited by xio, 07 October 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[faralos]

lights in vp do NOT reflect at all anywhere else
that is they will NOT bathe an area in any type of glow
to cheat us to think it is you must either make new plastics (with the lit effect on them)
or make a new pf image ( showing the circle or area of light) and show that when the light is lit