20 replies to this topic

[lucasbuck]

Technical question. I'm working on plastics for a table. On the real ones there's a clear edge that you can see through. (Remember, I've never built a table). Do I need to draw that with some kind of transparency, or do I just draw the colored part and let the table builder lay it on top of something he makes with a clear edge? And either way, I'm not sure size wise. Looking at the white part on the table underneath the plastic. Does the colored part come to the edge of that and the transparent plastic hang over, or does the edge of the transparent plastic match up? Hope that makes sense, I took a picture.

[maceman]

Clear = Black (0,0,0)

Opaque= White (255,255,255)

Your transparency will be based on any blend of grey, the more darker grey, the closer to black you are getting and thus more transparent.

So in Photoshop (or whatever), make your colours on a layer, and then make sure the outline(edges) as it's own layer or background that is completely black so they(the edges) will be clear.

This only will work with BMP (32bit)or PNG because they save the alpha information (8 bits).

If you save as 24 bit or lower, you will lose the last 8 bits which make up the alpha channel and thus have no results to show for.

Maceman

ps. once you make you plastic,if you used black for the edges,make sure when you import the image that you pick the colour box and select black so that you tell VP that for that image black is transparent.

Edited by maceman, 19 November 2011 - 04:04 PM.

[Bob5453]

The plastic image you have drawn is perfect for building the table. Your job is finished.

[lucasbuck]

So the transparency is part of the plastics image, its not something the image lays onto? (Like a 'part' of the table with a decal)

And also, on a real table, what edge matches what? As in, that underneath white piece on the playfield. Does it match up with the colored part of the plastic and the transparency overlaps, or does it match the edge of the transparency?

Okay, thanks to you both! It's just hard on a photo to tell what is bigger, and what overlaps. But if I did it the right way by leaving a white edge, then I'll leave it at that.

Edited by lucasbuck, 19 November 2011 - 06:48 PM.

[maceman]

I never use white myself. Black is clear.

I would cut out the colour part of your pic,and lay it on a black (0,0,0) layer instead of white and just make that a nice habit,then you wont get weird edge or funny results.

Technically, you can use white and select white in VP as the transparency..... You need to look at the colour scheme you are using and stay away from an edge colour that is the same as your image, else whatever colours are similar will go see-through as well. Black edges are best. For example, if you do use white, the word impacto will also become see through, if that is what you want, then go for it!

So yes, transparency is part of the plastics image. As far as what matches what lined up, remember, it will depend on your angle as well. If you look from FS birdeye view,it wont matter much, but the more layback and what not it will appear to move somewhat....

Edited by maceman, 19 November 2011 - 04:57 PM.

[Bob5453]

When redrawing the playfield and plastics for a table, you need to end up with 2 images. One image for the playfield and one image for the plastics. Draw them in the colors that are on the table, don't worry about any transparencies, just recreate the playfield and plastics. Yes, place the plastics in the correct position on the plastics image. You would only have one psd file, but it is great for the builder to not have playfield and plastics on the same image to build a table.

We will fake the transparent edge on the plastic with tricks, so you don't need the transparent edge.

Here are 2 images pulled from JP's Dolly table, that will give you an idea of what I mean. The images have lighting effects on them, you don't do that. He will have a full size image of the playfield with the lights on and off in the editor also, if he uses fading lights, then he needs a full size image of each stage of lighting, but the table builder will do this.

Attached Files

•  plastics.jpg   491.28KB   38 downloads
•  pf_b.jpg   1.16MB   40 downloads

Edited by Bob5453, 19 November 2011 - 05:44 PM.

[lucasbuck]

See, I thought there was a edge defined somehow that would have some kind of milky transparency or something, to make it look like a clear plastic edge. Also, I figured I'd need to do a lit and unlit version That's what I did on Big Hit for Itchigo. This is only the second one I've done. But I guess if you're making it specifically when working with someone, I should just ask.

And I'm doing them in layers, the playfield and the plastics, so they match up. Then just pull them separate and do to images. If you wouldn't mind, let me know if these edges are what I should be doing or not. I left the gap because it's clear there, so you can see the white underneath. (Sorry if I'm being dense)



Also, I'm OCD and I think I'm trying to be too perfect with everything. Even FS I don't think many of the little blemishes will show up. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bob5453]

I guess you need to know who is going to make the table and ask them how they want them. The plastics edges are done in 4 or 5 different techniques that authors use, some don't put them on at all.

I use photoshop and make a new image for plastics edges, a gray shade, save them in png at about 65% and then place them on a ramp at a height just under the plastics walls, so only the edge shows, so i wouldn't need them on your plastics graphic at all.

Here's an example of what my transparent plastic edges png graphic looks like from Knockout, this is straight from the editor. It doesn't have white on it, the image is blank, except for the gray plastics, I don't think I can display transparency in the forum attachment. Then the other pic is how it looks on the table as a plastics edge.... Not the greatest, but I am not a top table maker, nor am I OCD.

Attached Files

•  PlasticsEdge.png   67.01KB   46 downloads
•  Knockout_Plasticc.jpg   167.68KB   54 downloads

Edited by Bob5453, 19 November 2011 - 08:53 PM.

[faralos]

some people also use a skinny gray colored ramp around the outside of the plastic
to simulate that edge, again it will be grey or a solid color not an image tho like in your pic
make a ramp of around 4-6 in width at the same height as the plastic and a bit bigger.
I think there is a plastic or two in Ithigos table template that uses this approach

[unclewilly]

What i usually do on my tables is add all the plastics with a hard edge at to colored boarder. Then i export a blueprint. With the blueprint i trace the plastics then i engage each one slightly and fill them with a grey solid color adding a leveled edge and satin in the blending options. Then reduce the capacity to around 65% and have the background completely transparent. Save it as a png file. Then when you import into the table you can use one large non cognizable ramp with no visible walls with the texture as imagemodeworld set at a height .5 below the plastic height and it will show throw transparent boarders.

Take a look at my kings and queens or fathom table and you can see how i did them.

Redraw looks great by the way

[Itchigo]

I think there is a plastic or two in Ithigos table template that uses this approach

No, sorry. I've never learned to make plastic. Grizz did it on my recreations, and I used walls on my earlier tables. I cheated. I made plastic by: Taking transfullblue color and expanding it untill you can see between the dots, taking a section and making it a texture of it's own (clear), and adding a wall on top of it for the design. Make the edge of the plastic a dark color so you can see it's there. Not Monk approved, but it worked and I came up with it 15 months ago when I knew next to nothing. (Still do).

Attached Files

•  Rube_Goldberg_2_Pinball.JPG   160.86KB   13 downloads

Edited by Itchigo, 22 November 2011 - 12:13 AM.

[CONRAM29]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but I am having some trouble with plastic edges.

 

 

Please help.

 

Thank You

CONRAM29

[Bob5453]

You will see that you have your alpha ramp set to ImageModeWrap and you need to set it to ImageModeWorld.

Edited by Bob5453, 31 January 2013 - 03:26 AM.

[CONRAM29]

You will see that you have your alpha ramp set to ImageModeWrap and you need to set it to ImageModeWorld.

Thanks for helping Bob, but I have tried wrap & world , with no difference. I saved the table and restarted VP hoping it was a glitch in the program, but get the same results. I have resized the image to 1024 by 2048 and get the same results. The image is a png also, I will try a bitmap and see if that helps.

 

Thank You

CONRAM29

[Bob5453]

if the table image and the plastics image is the exact same size, it should work. Make sure it says ImageModWorld when you select it, sometimes it doesn't register. Bmp won't work as you can't set it to a 65% transparency like you can a png image.

[CONRAM29]

Thanks again Bob, I will give it a another try tomorrow ( need to get in bed 5:30 comes early), I think you may have hit something with table size. I not sure what size 952 width & 1927 height are in vp units compared to pixel size in photoshop. Sorry if I dont make sense "sleepy". I will update you tomorrow.

 

Thank You

CONRAM29

[pinuck]

That reminds me of my problems trying to 4:3/WS Abra Ca Dabra.
On my dev machine, the plastic edges ramp was stretching out and overlaying a weird area once I rotated and got into desktop space:


Trying to solve that problem was one of the many reasons why I gave up trying to make desktop versions (that I have zero need for) of my tables.
Looking at the nature of my existing tables and my personal expectations, the proverbial "5 minute conversion" is a complete fallacy.

But like I said on one of my recent table threads, if anyone wants to work all that crap out and make a decent WS version, I'm fine with it being released, I'm just not at all interested in doing it myself.

but i digress, sorry conram i don't have an answer for why it's doing that, but I think we might be experiencing the same problem?

[CONRAM29]

Hey guys I believe it is video card related, the first pic above is with hardware device rendering turned on. This is with hardware device rendering turned off, notice the plastic edges are in the proper place. For the record i am using an old ATI Radeon x300 video card.

 

 

I will just stick with the ramps I used on SureShot.

 

Thank You

CONRAM29

Edited by CONRAM29, 01 February 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[Bob5453]

CONRAM29, how do other people's tables look on your pc that use this method? If they are all screwed up, then there are a lot of new tables you can't play? If you don't see this problem on other tables, then you could send me this table and I could fix it for you, but only if you don't see the problem on other tables as you want to be able to play your own table without glitches.

[CONRAM29]

Thanks Bob, I just checked and I do have the same problem with tables that use this style of ramp/edges on my "builder computer". I never noticed on my arcade cab, but I'm running a nvidia on it. I would use my arcade cab to build tables on, but it is very frustrating trying to use the mouse and not hit buttons.I was actually planning on asking you & pinuck to test my table again "you guys have good eyes for details". So if you wanna try the ramp go for it , I will be able to play it on my arcade cab. I will p.m. you when I have the table ready (if your ok with it).

 

Thank You

CONRAM29