1353 replies to this topic

[Shockman]

Looks like you would have about 50 different objects to do that, if I'm understanding correctly.

[fuzzel]

The animation sequence is mainly for bones/hierarchical animation where you deform a mesh like character movements (walking, moving an arm and so on). Moving a mesh along a path could also be possible but I didn't test it. And yes you need a separate object for each frame (in your example for each dot and dash). The reason for that is that the obj format doesn't support animation at all. If you export an animated object in Blender to obj you will get lots of separate files for each frame. The second reason for supporting animation this way is, that it can be really complex to add all kinds of animation types and depending what 3d tool you are using you have to convert the key frame information.
Oh btw: the animation works only if the sequence uses the same number of vertices as the base mesh and the same face information. It won't work if you try to morph one mesh into another where the second mesh it's totally different from the first one.

Edited by fuzzel, 31 July 2016 - 06:30 AM.

[toxie]

Moving a mesh along a path should rather be done in script, otherwise you waste too much memory for the different frames, plus overhead/performance penalty.

 

 

 

Which thread do you mean?

Sorry.

http://www.vpforums....ic=25888&page=2

 

So did I understand that correctly that you want to adjust every vbs script that handles the VPM keys to add this line: "If Keycode = MechanicalTilt Then vpmTimer.PulseSw vpmNudge.TiltSwitch" ? I don't have a tilt bob so I can't test it.

 

 

 

Let me answer this way and hopefully I am speaking for all guys who have cabs WITH a mechanical tilt-bob.

 

Ideally, I would want to install VPF and have the mech. tilt (tilt-bob) work properly with out the need to patch scripts, like what I just did with the help of HocusLocus. Maybe if there were a VP  options setting for the tilt-bob (enable Mech tilt-bob) that could be activated, VP could refer to the correct set of scripts that will ensure this functions works correctly. Otherwise, it would refer to a different ones as to not impact Desktop and cab guys WITHOUT a tilt-bob.

 

So I guess I am saying...have two identical sets of scripts. One set (set A) is what we have today for the DT and cab guys without a MECH tilt-bob. The second set (set B) would have the revisions similar to what Hocus Locus created.

 

Then add "Enable Mech. tilt bob" to the options in prferences/keys. Unselected uses set "A". Selected uses set "B". This way, no patching is required when new scripts are released.

 

I can think of one other use for this feature for us cab guys. I dont like the PF image shake I get when the tilt-bob activates since I have a cab. If I am correct, I currently have to revise each tables properties in order to disable this. I would love it if there were an option to disable that function too.

 

Does all that make sense?

 

 

The PF shake you can already disable in the video preferences (visual nudge strength).

As for the script changing: As mentioned you can already choose between different sub-scripts by a simple rename of the file. Maybe you could contact mjr though what he suggests. He's still the specialist for all nudging and plunger.

[dark]

@hauntfreaks

I would say a general guideline would be that authors should always try to animate primitives/objs via VP script since this would be most efficient in terms of performance and the new "import animation sequence" found in the primitive import options should only be used as a last resort for objects that have animations that are just impossible to recreate with basic scripted movements (xyz move/scale/rotate).

 

This sort of issue has come up a number of times in the past, to cite a good example is the tube dancer in BBB, it really wiggles around!

 

What prompted me to try to catch Fuzzel's ear in regards to this issue was one of my more recent projects - the Cactus Jack WIP Bodydump has been working on.  I made the dancing Cacti, and we knew from the start that getting these guys to dance like they do on the table was going to be challenging especially since the arms shake around at different rates than the main body.

 

The instances where we need this option are probably few and far between but it's going to make a huge difference for when we do need it, with that said if anyone takes on a VP project that includes a table toy with some kind of complex animation like one of the toys mentioned above feel free to send me a PM and I'll try to help you out with it.....this is the sort of challenge I'd actually enjoy doing.

[fuzzel]

Correct! And also keep in mind that if you do an animation with a lot of frames and also have a high poly mesh the memory consumption will be huge. VP saves x/y/z and the normals for each frame. One coordinate is 4 bytes long one. So one vertex uses 24 bytes. The cactus has something around 2200 polygones that makes 24*2200*100 frames = 5.280.000 bytes or 5MB for only the animation

[dark]

Correct! And also keep in mind that if you do an animation with a lot of frames and also have a high poly mesh the memory consumption will be huge. VP saves x/y/z and the normals for each frame. One coordinate is 4 bytes long one. So one vertex uses 24 bytes. The cactus has something around 2200 polygones that makes 24*2200*100 frames = 5.280.000 bytes or 5MB for only the animation

Neat, I like seeing the actual breakdown of how exactly the face count will affect performance.

 

I tried to make the cactus as low poly as possible (though I'm sure I could cut down a few more faces) because I knew we'd need three of them dancing, luckily it's a fast animation sequence so I don't think I'll need anything near 100 frames for one cactus.....maybe 100 or less for all 3.

[fuzzel]

I have to update the animation functions again. At the moment you can only step one frame and no half frames. So with the next update I will change the animation functions in a way that you can define a speed and the frame number is a fractional number (float).

[hauntfreaks]

thanks fr all the answers .... I do have a plan for an odd animation like i described... but its not some that would be used very much or at all....

 

another question... if you had an animation that ran in a stationary spot... say , someone's arms moving

could that animation be moved ?.... so it would be a moving or animating animation .... this is a hard one to explain 

 

Drak I will PM you my idea

[fuzzel]

rev2731 is up:

 

- the primitive animation functions support floats as frame number and a frame rate

- lot's of bug fixes in the animation code introduced with rev2729. One problem was that after each play of a table the complete animation was added twice to the animation list. This is fixed now.

 

regarding the float frame numbers and frame rate:

I changed the functions so you can use half frames like 1.5, 1.7, 2.0 instead of just 1,2,3... VP will interpolate between subframes so you can speed up or slow down the animation. If you just want to play a single animation you can call

prim.PlayAnim 0, 0.5 which will play the animation from frame 0 with half speed. If you need more control of the animation you have to implement your own player with a timer and use the prim.ShowFrame function. Each time the timer handler is called increase/decrease the frame number as you like (1.0 or 0.9 or 1.4 or whatever) and check the frame boundaries then call ShowFrame with that number and VP will render only that frame.

[freezy]

Something else: I finally want to get rid of this uuuuuultra old visual pinball logo and adapt a new one (but still using Fuzzels cool pinball pic with the X). For whatever reason, wikipedia had this one since quite some time (and finally a new table pic after the previous 10 year old since today ):

https://upload.wikim...nball_cover.png

Who actually made this?

 

Any other suggestions?

 

I've had a try with this hipster logo over a year ago

[Ben Logan]

I like your logo, freezy. Nice and clean.

[DJRobX]

@StevOz: Thats exactly what the texture setting already does. So i fear that something else slows the tables in question down.

If you press F11 you'll get some stats. If you post a screenshot of that with a slow table here, i could say more.

 

So I looked into this a bit, because I see the same issue (my low-endish cab almost, but can't quite, pull off the "4K" tables).    It looks like the code that I had added to preserve aspect ratio has been commented out.   The reason I had put it in there is for exactly this scenario.

 

Without the aspect ratio code, a 4028x2048 playfield is re-scaled to 2048x2048 with the 2048 setting.    It will improve things, but not as noticeably if you scale the PF all the way down to 2048x1024, which is the resolution a typical "non-4k" table will have.  1024 not an ideal setting either.  That scales to 1024x1024 and you lose half of critical horizontal (really vertical on a cab) resolution. 

 

In other news, I need a new video card.  

[chepas]

Fuzzel, will you provide a simple example of model with anim in table to make it faster to learn from?

[fuzzel]

I can make one later sure...

[toxie]

 

Something else: I finally want to get rid of this uuuuuultra old visual pinball logo and adapt a new one (but still using Fuzzels cool pinball pic with the X). For whatever reason, wikipedia had this one since quite some time (and finally a new table pic after the previous 10 year old since today ):

https://upload.wikim...nball_cover.png

Who actually made this?

 

Any other suggestions?

 

I've had a try with this hipster logo over a year ago

 

 

Looking good in general, but not very Pinball-ish..

 

@StevOz: Thats exactly what the texture setting already does. So i fear that something else slows the tables in question down.

If you press F11 you'll get some stats. If you post a screenshot of that with a slow table here, i could say more.

 

So I looked into this a bit, because I see the same issue (my low-endish cab almost, but can't quite, pull off the "4K" tables).    It looks like the code that I had added to preserve aspect ratio has been commented out.   The reason I had put it in there is for exactly this scenario.

 

Without the aspect ratio code, a 4028x2048 playfield is re-scaled to 2048x2048 with the 2048 setting.    It will improve things, but not as noticeably if you scale the PF all the way down to 2048x1024, which is the resolution a typical "non-4k" table will have.  1024 not an ideal setting either.  That scales to 1024x1024 and you lose half of critical horizontal (really vertical on a cab) resolution. 

 

In other news, I need a new video card.  

 

 

True, but i don't remember the exact reasons why this was done.. :/

Maybe i'll just reenable it then and we'll see what happens..

 

EDIT: just reenabled it, and replaced the oldskool 512 limit with a new 3072.

Edited by toxie, 01 August 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[fuzzel]

rev2734 is up:

 

- fix file detection of animation sequence
- replace 512 max tex limit with new 3072 one, and reenable aspect ratio downscale for textures
 

[ClarkKent]

It would be cool if a selected object displays the layer in the options menu.

[gtxjoe]

MInor bug.  Using the Camera/Light mode and making changes, is not detected as a change to the file, so you can exit VP and lose your changes (No popup dialog with "File has changed, do you want to save?" is triggered)

[fuzzel]

MInor bug.  Using the Camera/Light mode and making changes, is not detected as a change to the file, so you can exit VP and lose your changes (No popup dialog with "File has changed, do you want to save?" is triggered)

Thanks will talke a look.

 

@all: rev2735 is up with just a minor but terrible stupid bug in the animation handling. Sorry!

[dark]

 

 

@all: rev2735 is up with just a minor but terrible stupid bug in the animation handling. Sorry!

 

 

Thanks!  Much better!