258 replies to this topic

[hauntfreaks]

 

Well this thread has been entertaining for sure.

 

Yes, for sure

 

mj.gif

 

And since we all like analogies... I'm sure you all have heard about this experiment:

Monkeys.jpg

 

Keep posting new monkeys!!!

 

 

why not just knock the ladder over... 

[freneticamnesic]

Quit putting bananas on the damn ladder ffs

sick. just sick.

Or how about this, everyone gets their banana, we all suffer the same number of showers, today it's my turn to get the banana so you guys enjoy your shower. 

[hauntfreaks]

well since we know one of the rungs on the ladder must have a load sensor or some kinda switch on it ... we send over a couple of the smarter money to disable , since the powers that be can't be watching 24/7

[Drybonz]

I feel like, during the course of this thread, we made a lot of progress with both the ladders... and the bananas.  I want to thank everyone for opening the lines of communication and working together.

[Spektre]

Blah, blah, blah. Call it what you like. We're not going to promote sites that knowingly and intentionally host content that violates Stern's wishes. Period.

 

Get over it. It's not going to change.

 

It has zero to do with business and everything to do with ethics.

 

Blah, blah, blah, Justify it as you like.  Whether you LIKE the definitions of your action or not, your actions meet the defintions of censorship.  Period.

 

Get over it.  The definition isn't going to change.

[freneticamnesic]

[dark]

I wouldn't direct anyone to the b2s over there, myself, whether or not they hosted unauthorized content.

First, and foremost, the site was born on the premise of lies about me and for the sole intent of 'going to war with VPF'. Oh, and to make Dazz money, as he expressed a YEAR before it was even a thought.

Secondly, the webmaster was banned from here for being grossly disrespectful to Randy, you know, the guy that made this all possible?

And finally, the b2s themselves are rips of Flying Dutchman's UVP work. How do I know? I can review download logs and see that every b2s over there was released within 48 hours of that member downloading the corresponding UVP. There's so much bullshit on that 'other' site that I, and others, find offensive, I would filter it regardless.

If you want to refer people to that site, have at it, but you won't be using our resources to do it.

Thank you.

 

I can understand the ill intent from Dazz being a motivator to ban him and censor his site, I know that was a real shit storm.  

 

The b2S is a whole other topic, while they maybe Dutchman's UVP work, UVP is obsolete, so someone had to at least do the work to convert these into b2s and there are many tables that you get here that don't have corresponding b2S's so in other words the only one(s) putting in the work to fill in that gap is banned here.  It maybe unethical if Dutchman has expressed that he doesn't want his resources altered or distributed (I don't know) but in any case there's a big gap of work to be done that's not being done here.

 

Back on topic though,  so yes I can understand V-P U being censored or what ever you want to call it - I get it, I really do, Dazz was malicious.  However, that brings me to the question I'd like to raise, what did randr do and why is v p inball.com censored?

 

The short answer is SAM tables are acceptable there, so it doesn't follow the same rules as here but it doesn't seem (to me at least) to merit blocking links to that site.  I only came to realise this because I wanted to link one of my WIP's to a blog I was starting there.

[Noah Fentz]

Blah, blah, blah. Call it what you like. We're not going to promote sites that knowingly and intentionally host content that violates Stern's wishes. Period.
 
Get over it. It's not going to change.
 
It has zero to do with business and everything to do with ethics.

 
Blah, blah, blah, Justify it as you like.  Whether you LIKE the definitions of your action or not, your actions meet the defintions of censorship.  Period.
 
Get over it.  The definition isn't going to change.

Oh! Since you put it that way, it must be true.

Heh.

I wouldn't direct anyone to the b2s over there, myself, whether or not they hosted unauthorized content.

First, and foremost, the site was born on the premise of lies about me and for the sole intent of 'going to war with VPF'. Oh, and to make Dazz money, as he expressed a YEAR before it was even a thought.

Secondly, the webmaster was banned from here for being grossly disrespectful to Randy, you know, the guy that made this all possible?

And finally, the b2s themselves are rips of Flying Dutchman's UVP work. How do I know? I can review download logs and see that every b2s over there was released within 48 hours of that member downloading the corresponding UVP. There's so much bullshit on that 'other' site that I, and others, find offensive, I would filter it regardless.

If you want to refer people to that site, have at it, but you won't be using our resources to do it.

Thank you.

 
I can understand the ill intent from Dazz being a motivator to ban him and censor his site, I know that was a real shit storm.  
 
The b2S is a whole other topic, while they maybe Dutchman's UVP work, UVP is obsolete, so someone had to at least do the work to convert these into b2s and there are many tables that you get here that don't have corresponding b2S's so in other words the only one(s) putting in the work to fill in that gap is banned here.  It maybe unethical if Dutchman has expressed that he doesn't want his resources altered or distributed (I don't know) but in any case there's a big gap of work to be done that's not being done here.
 
Back on topic though,  so yes I can understand V-P U being censored or what ever you want to call it - I get it, I really do, Dazz was malicious.  However, that brings me to the question I'd like to raise, what did randr do and why is v p inball.com censored?
 
The short answer is SAM tables are acceptable there, so it doesn't follow the same rules as here but it doesn't seem (to me at least) to merit blocking links to that site.  I only came to realise this because I wanted to link one of my WIP's to a blog I was starting there.

It's been our, and I say OUR, because it wasn't solely my decision, it was a consensus amongst staff, VIPs, and prevailing community policy, that sites hosting unauthorized content would be filtered. I didn't just one day put this site up, I consulted many people to create our policies.

By unauthorized content, I am referring to anything unauthorized, be it unauthorized MODs, software hacks, or tables not on the 3 year list.

This isn't new information. To the best of my knowledge, both sites opened knowing full well they'd be filtered here, so I'm not seeing how I'm censoring anything when it was 'pre-censored' by our prevailing policy we've had here since day one.

[arngrim]

so many b2s, and all the recent ones from v-p-u are not using dutchman resources, the quality of the images are much better than the "originals"
i just read 5 tapatalk pages to have news from jp ghostbusters, aftet i saw the picture, hope it is available somewhere, and i don't care where, like the current community, world evolves

[Noah Fentz]

Indeed. I find the world more selfish and disrespectful every day.

As for the b2s topic, there's more to a backglass than just an image, and it takes a shit ton of research to do them properly. No point in researching, if someone else did it already, right? FD all but quit as a result. We've had so many great members quit as a result of disrespect than I care to count.

To answer one of dark's earlier points, it's not putting in the work that got the ban, it's taking from and not giving back to the community that's the issue. Especially, being petty about it in the process. F that.

[bent98]

That's like saying people aren't suppose to reuse table scripts other people came up with because the initial person did all the work to figure out how things work.

[Noah Fentz]

I think that would depend on the script, don't you? Destruk gave blanket permission to use any of his script.

 

FD wasn't even asked.

 

So, what I am saying is, FD was shit on with every intent to shit on him and, of course, to spite me. C'mon, you guys know how it went down, and you wouldn't put up with that shit, either.

 

I think I'm more than fair and reasonable about enforcing our policies. I have a real passion for this hobby and this community, and I'll be damned if someone shitting on our members will ever benefit from links here.

[dark]

Firstly I'll say this isn't any kind of counter point, it's just some points hehe.

 

Yes there's a huge effort required to do just about anything here "properly" which is exactly why the community needs to band together to get stuff done and not fight over who has what rights to who's work.  Most of the people I've worked with here either give blanket permission to mod their work or have very liberal permission policies for other people using their work for exactly this reason - so long as their work is respected. [edit][ respected/credited.]

 

Personally I've poured countless hours just into the 3D part of VP and that's just one small department, or aspect of the builds we have done here.  Play fields, plastics, lighting, scripting, back glasses, it's a lot of work to bring everything together all for free and very little thanks.  That's just the way it is, either you can find some joy in doing this work or you'll become miserable looking for all the credit and praise you probably deserve for all the effort.  There's just so many grey areas in this hobby it's really easy for the waters to get muddied but at the end of the day we all love pinball and want to play more of it (virtually) for years to come.

Edited by dark, 09 September 2016 - 10:39 PM.

[Noah Fentz]

Ensuring 'togetherness' is impossible, so I strive to provide the best possible atmosphere, where the work you do has every opportunity to be shared, collaborated, and appreciated. This means there has to be certain policies in place.

The MOD policy has been in place since 2002. If you use other's work, you must get permission prior to uploading.

It's extremely disrespectful to come here and use someone's work from here without even asking, all with the intent of posting on some other site, especially given the origins of that site.

I don't know why this is so difficult to accept.

[randr]

I sure hope [site reference removed] is not referred to as "the" other site!

Its just another web site thats all and no bad feelings between Paul and i and all!

I just wanted to make a [site reference removed] site for EVERYONE to use, link to information to all sites! Please don't confuse [site reference removed] with the "other" site! 

I am typing this and when i hit send i assume it will remove links to site i mentioned.

[Noah Fentz]

We've already had this discussion, Jason.

No ill feelings here.

Edit: I fixed it for you.

[freneticamnesic]

lol....... oh that's a censorin' waiting to happen

[hauntfreaks]

as far as i can tell.... every policy here at VPF is being broken at Jason's place

Edited by hauntfreaks, 09 September 2016 - 11:14 PM.

[bent98]

Atleast it's not the "other site".

Edited by bent98, 09 September 2016 - 11:23 PM.

[randr]

I just dont want to be referred to as "the" other site. I have "A" site. Nothing else.

As for the rules here I have always felt Paul has every right to do whatever he wants! its his site! 

 

Now i dont see a problem collecting a bunch of pictures off google of ghost busters and having i good discussion about how its not ethical to emulate it. I agree emulation of ghostbusters should wait! its not even possible to emulate the game so its a non issue.

 

If someone wanted to script all by hand i see no issue with a complementary vp version but thats me. no emulation i agree but a half ass recreation bring it on!