192 replies to this topic

[Slydog43]

let down here too, at least until there is portrait/cab support.  I will be in then though

[TheMcD]

Personally, I'm kind of impressed. Call it pseudo-impressed. There's obviously something good in here, but a million little annoyances nibble away at my enjoyment.

 

Like the fact you can't do the Wizard Challenges in the same game you complete the Standard Challenges in. Twice now I've managed to clear at least a few, if not all of the Wizard Challenges in one game, but because I finished the Standard ones in the same game, it didn't count. Annoying.

 

The fairly spartan settings, the crashes that occasionally just pop in, the annoyingly priced "pro table" crap, buggy achievements (I unlocked the Wizard achievement for Class of 1812 by doing the Standard Challenges), buggy challenges (more than a few times I'd achieve something only for it to just straight up not register), it all adds up to something I can very much enjoy, but for 70€ of my money, I expected more. And I don't even care about this cabinet business, so I can only imagine how it must feel for them.

Edited by TheMcD, 06 November 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[bodydump]

One of my biggest fears when doing a PF redraw is making a typo while doing text.  They managed to pull that one off:

 

[chepas]

Oh dear. That is one prime example of a rush job.

[TheMcD]

Thank God my resolution is small enough I can't notice that kind of stuff. I bet there's more out there - it just seems like that sort of project.

[Practicedummy]

I think I am going to wait for when The Pinball Arcade is on a Steam sale. No excuse for typos.

[TheMcD]

I think I am going to wait for when The Pinball Arcade is on a Steam sale. No excuse for typos.

 

It's never going to be on sale. I can almost guarantee that, because the tables aren't stocked in the regular Steam store, and are instead "items" sold akin to the items in TF2's cash shop. And while there have been sales on TF2 items, I doubt the same thing is going to happen with TPA's tables, especially because the prices are also written into the game. Beyond the cheaper bundles, you're SOL.

[kristian]

It's not perfect but it's good enough that I suspect there's no going back to VP for me anymore.

 

I mean I love VP as much as anyone... hell I was living and breathing VP in the early days... and I know it's hard to admit for many that time has taken its toll with it. Or maybe that's unfair to say... but PA has took a step upwards without a doubt.

 

Future Pinball had bad enough ball physics and everything was scripted so it was never a real challenger. But this is.

 

There's a limit what you can do with VP... and you guys have pushed it constantly in the last years. But take a look at Whirlwind on PA... that level of detail, the spinners on the middle... the atmosphere. I don't think you can ever duplicate anything like that on VP. The physics are very good on PA... the more I play, the more I like 'em.

 

VP can compete with some of its best solid state table creations... take PacDude's Firepower, Vector and Blackout for example... Scapino's Flash Gordon... but the more modern and technically complex tables can be implemented much better on PA and its new technology.

 

But then again I'm talking only from the desktop players' perspective... I have never tried the cabinets and I have no intention to do so.

 

Maybe you disagree... maybe It's just my over enthusiasm with this new toy.... I'd love to be wrong because I will always miss the adjustability on VP... and the free stuff... the friendships. But it's like looking at the mirror... one day you have to admit that you're not 20 anymore.

Edited by kristian, 07 November 2013 - 12:20 AM.

[chepas]

You have some fair points there but it's ultimately boiling down to graphics & not the playablity. All in all , you're enjoying it and that's what really matters!

 

I just can't pull the trigger to buy any of them yet. My expectations were obviously way too high for what it's turned out to be.

 

Quality of models, hexangonal plastics, walls, ramps & leaf targets. Low res textures. Bad flipper physics. No amount of fancy GI will change my view on it.

 

Also I cannot see how their "portrait" mode will be any different from FP.

[kristian]

No... you got me wrong... it's definitely the playability. I've played it for 2 days straight now and I can safely say the physics and playability are just as good as on the best VP tables... if not better. I've played pinball for decades and I don't agree with you about the "bad" flipper physics. Maybe you didn't implement the "flipper lag" tweak for NVidia?

 

Great graphics... well... always a great addition... but they'd be useless without good physics... (see FP). And PA definitely has good physics. From the players' point of view the only department that VP wins is the adjustability... slope settings,.. flipper strength settings... ability to make your own little tweaks, etc. I'm definitely missing those.

Edited by kristian, 07 November 2013 - 01:54 AM.

[chepas]

I'll always be comparing to the real thing, not to VP, FP or PP.

 

Show me some flipper passes, cradles, live catch. If that's possible then maybe I do have flipper lag. If you're into just knocking the ball up & down the table, fair play.

 

If they didn't claim to be exact replications I wouldn't have a problem.

[Zeiram]

One of my biggest fears when doing a PF redraw is making a typo while doing text.  They managed to pull that one off:

Good eye! I had to pull up Genie on my iPad, and sure enough the typo is there too! Never spotted it before...

Edited by Zeiram, 07 November 2013 - 02:18 AM.

[kristian]

@chepas: I respectfully disagree... nothing can be compared to the real thing... so it has to be compared to its counterparts (imho). Yeah... "exact replication" is not what it is... it's just a video game. That's just a typical marketing gimmick.

 

Let's take an example... you know the way ball "bounces" over the flipper rubbers when you make a "dead ball" in the real thing... it feels much more authentic in PA... you get the same "restless" bounce. That was never on VP... the ball always behaved very "static". Centre shooting with flippers is also MUCH better in PA.

 

This feels a LOT like ProPinball... I gotta install those ProPinball tables back to my system... when it was about ball physics we kept that as a "measuring stick" in the old days of VP... I have to make a straight comparison.

 

All solid state tables aren't that well done... I gotta admit that. They almost feel like playing FP. But then again they're scripted and will be emulated later.

Edited by kristian, 07 November 2013 - 02:23 AM.

[chepas]

I might of have some flipper lag as you say but it wasn't really noticable to the eye.

 

I'm finding that I can "light flick" it a bit more than before now without it post passing, but it's still kind of strange. If you do flick it lightly and try again as you would for a flipper pass, it doesn't quite hit the ball but looks as if ball has hardly left the flipper.

 

All of that is possible in recent VP tables, probably jimmys flippers?

 

Will knock up a video and that should explain it a bit more than I can with text.

[kristian]

i had a small flipper lag until this one fixed it. After the fix flippers become fast and smooth.

 

http://pinballarcade...lease-read-this

 

It might be your problem as well.

 

PS: Another tip: Button "C" changes the angle and "V" disables/enables the playfield scrolling. Changing the angle on the fly is a fantastic feature and PA should be tried from the lower angles... looks amazing.

Edited by kristian, 07 November 2013 - 03:36 AM.

[maceman]

I have to agree with Chepas. As much as I LOVE pinball arcade, I mentioned the same thing in regards to the flipper physics and I have implemented the said fixes already. I find it is too bouncy myself and have huge trouble controlling the balls the same as with other emulators.

I find everything else superb, but would like the option to be able to tweak ball bounce.

 

Now having said that, someone mentioned that the possibility to change slope may exist? Maybe that was only for PFX2, but if it could be done on PA I would maybe try to see if that helped. Maybe this really is good physics and I just don't know it...but after playing VP/FP for 3 years, I can at least say i've had some experience and PA feels so different. I like the physics on PFX2 (other than closeness of flips) as well.

Heck, I think our VP guys do a better job actually.

[kristian]

It could be just that you have gotten used to VP so much... how it feels and plays. It's almost like a "real" machine or a "standard" after all these years.

 

I haven't played VP that much lately... but I remember when we made Baby PacMan conversion with Steve Ellenoff and I couldn't make the flippers aim on the center target. There was just no way. That was VP8 days though... I don't know how much this has been improved.

 

The "bounce" that you describe as an annoyance is an improvement to me. It bounces like the real thing. OK... maybe a tad too much.

 

Just give this some excessive playing and use the lower angles. You'll get used to it.

 

I'm the biggest VP fan on earth... always have been.... spent my childhood playing real pinball... authored/co-authored 50 VP tables... there is no way I'd easily side with a commercial product.... but Pinball Arcade is simply better... I don't understand how you guys don't see it. Maybe I'm wrong... or maybe, just maybe it's like finally divorcing your fat, nagging old wife.... too big and bold step to make.

Edited by kristian, 07 November 2013 - 03:49 AM.

[The Loafer]

I Love PA, been enjoying it on the iPad with "retina" resolution for a while and both the graphics and gameplay are awesome. Great game. In saying that, I really think you need to play Some of the more recent vp tables, especially anything with BMPR adjusted physics by Jimmy Fingers. I don't think VP is better or worse than PA, but it certainly is pretty awesome in its own right and the big VP advancements ar not only in toys or graphics, as the gameplay is much better.

[faralos]

It's not perfect but it's good enough that I suspect there's no going back to VP for me anymore.

 

I mean I love VP as much as anyone... hell I was living and breathing VP in the early days... and I know it's hard to admit for many that time has taken its toll with it. Or maybe that's unfair to say... but PA has took a step upwards without a doubt.

 

Future Pinball had bad enough ball physics and everything was scripted so it was never a real challenger. But this is.

 

There's a limit what you can do with VP... and you guys have pushed it constantly in the last years. But take a look at Whirlwind on PA... that level of detail, the spinners on the middle... the atmosphere. I don't think you can ever duplicate anything like that on VP. The physics are very good on PA... the more I play, the more I like 'em.

 

VP can compete with some of its best solid state table creations... take PacDude's Firepower, Vector and Blackout for example... Scapino's Flash Gordon... but the more modern and technically complex tables can be implemented much better on PA and its new technology.

 

But then again I'm talking only from the desktop players' perspective... I have never tried the cabinets and I have no intention to do so.

 

Maybe you disagree... maybe It's just my over enthusiasm with this new toy.... I'd love to be wrong because I will always miss the adjustability on VP... and the free stuff... the friendships. But it's like looking at the mirror... one day you have to admit that you're not 20 anymore.

what does age have to do with pinball? many of us here are over 40 heck I am 54!

at my age yer right many guys have houses/mortgages/ kids car payments etc.

BUT they are also here building the pins and rewriting the code for us so we can further enjoy vp

but Que sera sera...

[kristian]

 

It's not perfect but it's good enough that I suspect there's no going back to VP for me anymore.

 

I mean I love VP as much as anyone... hell I was living and breathing VP in the early days... and I know it's hard to admit for many that time has taken its toll with it. Or maybe that's unfair to say... but PA has took a step upwards without a doubt.

 

Future Pinball had bad enough ball physics and everything was scripted so it was never a real challenger. But this is.

 

There's a limit what you can do with VP... and you guys have pushed it constantly in the last years. But take a look at Whirlwind on PA... that level of detail, the spinners on the middle... the atmosphere. I don't think you can ever duplicate anything like that on VP. The physics are very good on PA... the more I play, the more I like 'em.

 

VP can compete with some of its best solid state table creations... take PacDude's Firepower, Vector and Blackout for example... Scapino's Flash Gordon... but the more modern and technically complex tables can be implemented much better on PA and its new technology.

 

But then again I'm talking only from the desktop players' perspective... I have never tried the cabinets and I have no intention to do so.

 

Maybe you disagree... maybe It's just my over enthusiasm with this new toy.... I'd love to be wrong because I will always miss the adjustability on VP... and the free stuff... the friendships. But it's like looking at the mirror... one day you have to admit that you're not 20 anymore.

what does age have to do with pinball? many of us here are over 40 heck I am 54!

at my age yer right many guys have houses/mortgages/ kids car payments etc.

BUT they are also here building the pins and rewriting the code for us so we can further enjoy vp

but Que sera sera...

 

 

Age? WTF... Obviously you didn't understand the symbolic meaning of that sentence. And don't give me any lectures "what you guys do here with VP and how much you sacrifice" and all that stuff... new boy.

 

@Loaf: What are those Jimmy Finger tables? Any desktop versions? I'll check them out.