294 replies to this topic

[djmichaelbasic]

Thanks Rob. Yea I know about the colors as per our previous conversation. It's all vector so it's one touch with the paint bucket to change any color throughout. I'll take a look at the plastic colors but on most tables I've done, the plastic colors don't match the playfield very well. Probably the same color just different base materials causing a shade difference. Concerning the upper diamonds, on the overlay they appear to be the same color as the knight in the upper left corner. However, in some other photos, they appear to be a different color. Which is the true? I'll take a look at the plank lines also. I'm doubtful that they'll even show up in VP once the thing is darkened up, etc.. Obviously I like to be as accurate as possible but there does come the point of diminishing returns. As for the lights, right now I just used the overlay. I always leave those on their own layer, so that'll be an easy fix. Please keep letting me know what you see wrong.

Super excited about this...this was my absolutely favorite childhood pinball...looks amazing so far!

[rob046]

Thanks Rob. Yea I know about the colors as per our previous conversation. It's all vector so it's one touch with the paint bucket to change any color throughout. I'll take a look at the plastic colors but on most tables I've done, the plastic colors don't match the playfield very well. Probably the same color just different base materials causing a shade difference. Concerning the upper diamonds, on the overlay they appear to be the same color as the knight in the upper left corner. However, in some other photos, they appear to be a different color. Which is the true? I'll take a look at the plank lines also. I'm doubtful that they'll even show up in VP once the thing is darkened up, etc.. Obviously I like to be as accurate as possible but there does come the point of diminishing returns. As for the lights, right now I just used the overlay. I always leave those on their own layer, so that'll be an easy fix. Please keep letting me know what you see wrong.

True, maybe don't use plastics for colors, just use pics. I think my pics will help. The diamonds, yeah the knight on the upper left plastic is more red than those diamonds should be. Diamonds should be a little more on the brown side (see attached pic). Same with the tan diamonds, on the overlay they look a little too saturated.
Also, one thing I noticed right away with the overlay, notice on the lower PF, the backs of the chairs seem to be the same color as the rug, table & other areas (this is even more noticeable in other pics I have without flash, will attach). But see the pic of my original PF, the backs of the chairs are a little more red than the rug, table, etc. Which are a little more brown.

I can take pics in better lighting if you want, but to me this pic shows a pretty accurate example of what I see in RL. Though keep in mind this pic was taken before cleaning up the PF a bit, & slightly dark lighting, so colors might appear a tiny bit darker than in RL, but not much...


& here is a pic without any flash, bad lighting but you can see what I was talking about...

[bodydump]

Thanks for the pics. I was looking around yesterday and noticed the rug and table coloring you're talking about. It's all the same color on that overlay. They must have wanted to save money at the printers by using less colors. I'll work on correcting those areas. Thanks.

[rob046]

Thanks for the pics. I was looking around yesterday and noticed the rug and table coloring you're talking about. It's all the same color on that overlay. They must have wanted to save money at the printers by using less colors. I'll work on correcting those areas. Thanks.

Yeah, the overlay isn't "official". Well, Gottlieb just doesn't allow "official" overlays, they won't license them. So you get this instead. Its probably illegal, the guy who sold it to me probably shouldn't of. I was pissed too. He gave me an EBD & an HH overlay, I kinda traded him an EM for the overlays, which I was OK with since good overlays can be $150+ each.
But a few days later when I rolled these out (& took these pics), I noticed right away that both of them didn't match my original PF's. I thought that at least the EBD would be good, but that is an overlay that has been licensed. But what I got, like the HH overlay, was just a scan from probably a used PF, touched up.

The overlays are nice in that everything lines up perfectly & would be easy to apply. But IMHO is that this guy (this dude who gave them to me prints them himself) simply cheaped out on the printing, didn't use enough colors. Not acceptable for me, but I"m pretty anal. Plus my PF's are in good enough shape that I wouldn't use an overlay on my games unless the overlay were perfect.

If your redraw fixes some of this stuff, I wonder if it can be used to where I can create a new overlay with the art? Its vector right? This is something I've been thinking about with some of your redrawers, why limit the benefits of your work to just VP? Redraw has to be pretty spot on though for people to accept it for overlays or re-printing (which is done these days).

But anyhow, so yeah I have these 2 overlays for great games, on real nice overlay material with great cutout areas (cept for the stupid green insert problem mentioned on HH)... but I have no use for them. However, for anybody with an EBD or HH that is totally trashed, these would be 10x better than just having a trashed PF! I've seen these same overlays installed, they really aren't bad at all. So if somebody has or wants to get a completely trashed HH or EBD, let me know I'll hook you up!

Still pissed at the dude who sold me these though, telling me they were perfect, stupid on me for taking his word for it. He's one of those pinheads (he has an amusements business) that hates his job & wants to squeeze every cent out of people even if it costs him his soul. I only dealt with him cuz he was willing to buy 3 of my games at once & had the truck to take them all at once.
Also for the EM, he did throw in a real Black Hole PF for me, semi populated. As well as an extra HH lower PF. I can use them for parts, maybe I'll clean them up, strip them & touch them up one day, try to sell them. Now I'm more enclined to maybe get a Black Hole next, knowing I have plenty of parts & can replace the PF.
Btw, HH should get most the attention, but Black Hole gets overlooked as well, it isn't far behind HH in terms of being an awesome game. & despite the similarities between both games (both widebody, both with exact same basement area), they are actually VERY different style games.

Bodydump, you or anyone working on Black Hole? If so I can help a lot with resources.

[bodydump]

I doubt my redraw could be used for an overlay since I drew it from pics. In order to get it perfectly sized/flat/proportional it would have needed to be done from flat scans of the overlay. If you decide to strip that lower HH playfield soon, get me some nice flat pics of that. I saw a place online offering a free (with donation) scan of EBD to print yourself. I wonder if thats what the guy used. As far as Black Hole, I think Grizz did some redraws of targets and apron and stuff. Don't know if he started or was planning on doing the PF. I'm sure if you get some pics, one of us will do it.

[rob046]

I doubt my redraw could be used for an overlay since I drew it from pics. In order to get it perfectly sized/flat/proportional it would have needed to be done from flat scans of the overlay. If you decide to strip that lower HH playfield soon, get me some nice flat pics of that. I saw a place online offering a free (with donation) scan of EBD to print yourself. I wonder if thats what the guy used. As far as Black Hole, I think Grizz did some redraws of targets and apron and stuff. Don't know if he started or was planning on doing the PF. I'm sure if you get some pics, one of us will do it.

Maybe if I scanned my overlay (which I know lines up perfectly), then your art could be tweaked to fit over top of it? It sounds interesting though, to maybe just print my own overlays. I've still yet to install one, but I'm kinda a fan of overlays as a way to restore trashed PF's, especially for games that don't have repro PF's available. I just see all these great redraws & do sometimes wonder if they could at least be a starting point to making a good overlay.
Where did you see this link to the free EBD overlay? I'm very curious to check that out.

As mentioned, I actually have a spare lower PF for HH. I can certainly get pics. It might even be stripped already, I don't remember, I have it in my shed. What are you currently working with for the lower PF, does your pics even have the protective plastic removed, with the web on it? I do have a nice Canon, 14 megapixel. So I assume this would be a worthwhile picture upgrade for you to work with?
However, the spare lower PF I have has more wear than the one in my game. It isn't bad, just a few spots above the flippers are worn to wood. But the one in my game is pretty nice, it has a few wear spots but they are very small, so 99% of the art should be visible & good to work with.

I still have yet to clean & polish it, but its still decent, & actually its pretty easy to get a good pic of it. Just need to prop up the main PF then you get a clear view of it, & I can easily remove the protective clear plastic. That much I can do right now, though I do plan to strip it & clean/polish it while I put new rubbers on. Just not sure how soon I'll be doing that. How important is it that the lower PF be stripped for the pic? Doesn't seem like much, if any, art is blocked by objects. I'll probably strip everything when I get to cleaning it, maybe not the flippers though, but I think its all black under them, so they aren't covering any art. How soon will you be working on the redraw? Maybe I can try to get it done by whenever that might be.
Either way I can definitely get you whatever you need with the lower PF or whatever else.

[bodydump]

Not really free since it requires a donation. Obviously it's not official and there doing some convulted shit to avoid legal problems:
EBD playfield scan

It's probably not that important to strip the lower. I already have a bunch of pics of it, so it's not absolutely necessary. I'll let you know if I need any detail photos once I start working on the lower.

[StrawberryPrincess]

...............................

Edited by StrawberryPrincess, 09 October 2011 - 06:41 AM.

[Mitchell]

I'm so piss off that I can't find my Microsoft Pinball Arcade CD anywhere. I must've sold it in a yard sell. I really want to play this game in good graphics.

Take your time on it. I will play this after your done.

Edited by Mitchell, 19 October 2011 - 12:30 AM.

[bodydump]

OK, thanks to Rob046, I think we're getting close to having the colors sorted out. Here's the latest update. Just a few things left on the main PF then it's on to the basement.

[gStAv]

Great work there Bodydump! What a feast for the eye!

Remeber this as one of my first pinball machines ever played. Tunis - Africa of all places!
You had to stand on a piec of wood not to get yourself electrocuted! Thouse where the days!

[kevinleedrum]

Very impressive work. I think I'm looking forward to this table more than any other right now.

[bent98]

OK, thanks to Rob046, I think we're getting close to having the colors sorted out. Here's the latest update. Just a few things left on the main PF then it's on to the basement.

Looking good Tom

[triplesixes]

I have been looking to buy one of these and found one in fantastic condition. Here are some nice pics, hope it helps with your project.
http://www.facebook....2...3793&type=3

Thanks Rob. Yea I know about the colors as per our previous conversation. It's all vector so it's one touch with the paint bucket to change any color throughout. I'll take a look at the plastic colors but on most tables I've done, the plastic colors don't match the playfield very well. Probably the same color just different base materials causing a shade difference. Concerning the upper diamonds, on the overlay they appear to be the same color as the knight in the upper left corner. However, in some other photos, they appear to be a different color. Which is the true? I'll take a look at the plank lines also. I'm doubtful that they'll even show up in VP once the thing is darkened up, etc.. Obviously I like to be as accurate as possible but there does come the point of diminishing returns. As for the lights, right now I just used the overlay. I always leave those on their own layer, so that'll be an easy fix. Please keep letting me know what you see wrong.

True, maybe don't use plastics for colors, just use pics. I think my pics will help. The diamonds, yeah the knight on the upper left plastic is more red than those diamonds should be. Diamonds should be a little more on the brown side (see attached pic). Same with the tan diamonds, on the overlay they look a little too saturated.
Also, one thing I noticed right away with the overlay, notice on the lower PF, the backs of the chairs seem to be the same color as the rug, table & other areas (this is even more noticeable in other pics I have without flash, will attach). But see the pic of my original PF, the backs of the chairs are a little more red than the rug, table, etc. Which are a little more brown.

I can take pics in better lighting if you want, but to me this pic shows a pretty accurate example of what I see in RL. Though keep in mind this pic was taken before cleaning up the PF a bit, & slightly dark lighting, so colors might appear a tiny bit darker than in RL, but not much...


& here is a pic without any flash, bad lighting but you can see what I was talking about...

[bodydump]

Now onto the basement:

[JAM0]

Now onto the basement:

Beautiful work bodydump

[lettuce]

Now onto the basement:

A thing of beauty!!!!

UW are you taking this on??...if so any chance this will be an xmas present??

[maceman]

Now onto the basement:

gorgeous man. Congrats and thank-you very much!

[lettuce]

Any WIP of the basement redraw bodydump?

Just a massive shame this wont be ready for halloween....but im super happy its finally getting a well deserved update for VP9!!!!

[bodydump]

Any WIP of the basement redraw bodydump?

Just a massive shame this wont be ready for halloween....but im super happy its finally getting a well deserved update for VP9!!!!

Woulda been a great Halloween release but we'll be lucky if finish my part by Halloween

Anyway, here's where the basement stands so far: