1002 replies to this topic

[unclewilly]

I can't wait to look at this and I've been meaning to try out my mb update as it is on an elevated wall and all the holes are actual holes

[boiydiego]

UW is there a change you will update a bingo table with new holes and physis update if this works ?

[unclewilly]

Never done a bingo but I'd be willing to try

[boiydiego]

  great to hear you say that UW , if you look after a table to do http://www.ipdb.org/...ine.cgi?id=5658 this was in lots of cafe's in belgium , also great for db2s creators the will have a blast what a big backbox thinking of building a second backbox and putting a wide screen screen on its side for it as backbox to get the stretched effect to match the playfield like a realy bingo table  and i just can switch backboxes when iam in bingo vibe

Edited by boiydiego, 24 May 2014 - 12:20 AM.

[Pinbotfan]

I tinkered with your example,

 

- Lowered the height of the wall from 50 to 12

- Made the hole just a bit bigger and much rounder

- Put a ring of a few ramps going from the 12 surface to zero bottom of hole (the bevel)

- Put a VP kicker in the hole (scripted enabled =false)

- Put a ring shaped trigger (around the hole but inside the bevel (the ramps) to disable the kicker

- Put a trigger over the hole ( trigger1) when hit will set the Kicker timer 500  (enables the kicker and sets the kicker timer to kick later)

- Put a drain on the small wall this is all on. the kicker kicks up and most often the ball will drop back in the saucer , but if not that drain creates and kicks a ball from the top kicker which kicks towards the saucer

- Bottom walls keep the ball moving around until it hits the drain and is recreated and shot towards the cup or hits the cup. so you can sit back and watch and will see the ball enter or get rejected from any angle

 

The physics work great, but then again they always have in a case like this. a ball rolling straight in without too much speed will drop straight in. Off a bit and it will lip and even orbit either falling in or falling out. Too much speed and the bevel has not enough effect. You can use the trigger timers to enable the kicker just before it kicks if you want a soft hold that you could nudge the ball out of the saucer, or early for a strong hold. 

 

I would just post a pic or the .vpt example, but the ability to perform that service is not something I can afford nor willing to pay for anyway.                                     

[mukuste]

The physics work great, but then again they always have in a case like this.

 

If you try my example in VP9, you'll see that the ball either drops in straight (if its center moves over the hole) or bypasses the hole completely. There's no inbetween case where it would lip or orbit.

 

You can upload your example on any external file host for free by the way.

[boiydiego]

like muskuste says pinbotfan it does not cost money + you help the vp communitie in making vp stronger and better ..

[Pinbotfan]

Here is a mod of muskustes' hole test. Also a dual slope table (shift keys and CTRL keys for flippers)

 

 

Edit:

correction- On the hole example the table surface is 13, not 12 (visual difference only) the ramps are 12 high at the high end. This allows the cut hole to represent the hole and not the top edges of the ramps that are a straight line. 

 

This is not what kicker holes should be. It is just to show how they could act.

 

It's posted here.

http://www.pinballni...0802#post100802

Edited by Pinbotfan, 24 May 2014 - 03:11 PM.

[boiydiego]

thx pinbotfan for the upload will try this evening , in this video @ 5:13 till 5:25   also from 5:45 to 5:55 when its swirled out of hole 21  http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mfuF4jb-Cqc its a nice example how the ball must react when you pull the cabinet  or let the ball go on its own ,ball goes nicely from hole 3 to hole 2 .

 

also on this video http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2IS-q57BNcQ the ball to hole action hole 9 @ 5:10 lots of difrence with just being sucked like a maniac in the hole the ball just rumbles with the hole time enough to reacted with a nudge to deflect it ..

 

@ unclewilly the video above is great to view gameplay and features of the bally continental

hoping it will inspire you

Edited by boiydiego, 24 May 2014 - 05:02 PM.

[mukuste]

Thanks, I like the saucer test. The ball still snaps into the Kicker object in an unrealistic way when it's enabled, so I hope we can do away with that somehow.

 

I noticed you set the gravity to 4 on the dual slope table; I think that's not a good idea since it will mess with friction (which depends on the normal force) and make the ball fall much too fast if it's ever airborne.

[boiydiego]

Thanks, I like the saucer test. The ball still snaps into the Kicker object in an unrealistic way when it's enabled, so I hope we can do away with that somehow.

 

I noticed you set the gravity to 4 on the dual slope table; I think that's not a good idea since it will mess with friction (which depends on the normal force) and make the ball fall much too fast if it's ever airborne.

 

liking the first sentence so much like gold in my ears .

Edited by boiydiego, 24 May 2014 - 04:29 PM.

[Pinbotfan]

The kicker is not really needed for capture, only for kicking. If you set trigger timer from 500 to say 1000 then the ball settling down into the hole will last longer. You would not need to enable the kicker except for a kick.

 

You can also make the hole much more or much less sensitive by setting the friction of the bevel (the ramps) higher or lower. The hole could catch a very fast ball if that friction is high enough. The physics I'm talking about here have nothing to do with a kicker grabbing the ball, but only the ball and the hole. You might want to take the kicker out of the hole and observe just the basic physics.

 

If you gave the kicker a hit threshold like slings have then this could go much farther.

 

The bad part about this is the wall it is all playing out on. I think it need to happen on the playfield surface, as well as any surface, but if we can not cookie-cut real holes then a raised playfield surface will be needed to be built in, or user made templates will be making the default table look pretty lame..

[boiydiego]

looking at the saucer hole and ball reaction the potential is definitly there . the table you upload is great for watching the ball behavior .

[Pinbotfan]

I think what would complete this would be a deep enough hole but same slope on ramps (ramps not going to bottom but to a smaller hole). The depth where the bottom of the ramps or maybe the hole walls, would be at the right size and height to do the grabbing and holding. A timer would ensure that the kicker receives the ball, but only after it has been held still. 

[boiydiego]

indeed the hole is not deep enough and maybe must be a little bit smaller the hole , did you see the last video i posted pinbotfan on the time where you see hole 9 action?

Edited by boiydiego, 24 May 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[unclewilly]

Would it be possible to make the kicker not register a hit until a ball is in it rather then above it. So kind of like it was not enabled until a ball actually touches the object rather then is above it

[Pinbotfan]

indeed the hole is not deep enough and maybe must be a little bit smaller the hole , did you see the last video i posted pinbotfan on the time where you see hole 9 action?

The bevel has No friction. Friction on the ramps would act like a steeper bevel. A deeper hole and steeper bevel might be what you want though. I was not trying to recreate anything specific. I watched the video but found myself yelling shoot the damn ball already! And I know what a ball rolling into a saucer looks like.

 

UW. The kicker in not enabled on an encounter. This kind of kicker cup use to be a lot easier to do years ago and worked just as well. The kicker did not have a hit height though. If the kicker acted properly and did not have anything to do with the ball unless there was actually contact between them then yes it would work like you want and would expect. I screwed around changing this value, but got tired of trying to find the place where the supernatural action would not occur. 

 

Like I said. This is no proper way to make a saucer. It's just better that what VP has now. But it could be used now and dialed in. Tweaking it would involve at least one or more of :

 

-hit height, if this actually works and you can find a working value

-hole depth and size

- ramp angle

-ramp friction and maybe elasticity and other settings

-Trigger timers

-Kicker timers

-Table physics

[neohusky]

Hi mukuste Just wanted to say a big thank you for all your hard work. These physics updates are nothing short of awesome. Keep up the good work!

Edited by neohusky, 24 May 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[arngrim]

someone knows if it is possible from pinballx to handle 2 vp versions? and how?

i have some tables that i need the vp physicmod5 and vp 9.9 for the rest

[unclewilly]

Can't you just set it up as another emulator.
I don't know, I'll be installing pinballx tonight.