85 replies to this topic

[chas]

ok, this is kind of a foreign language

i have my current settings in pinmame and VP:

Lnudge, 45, 1

Rnudge, 315, 1

Center nudge, 180, 1.25

i felt 355/5 will be the same as as a center nudge.

with the original nudge settings you would have to kick the table hard to get that nudge effect.

i remember when nudging a real table i would bump the corners with my palm.

 

could you explain each line for what it is and how for direction and strength to get the same.

will my current settings work if i change it and not get a "cannnot open core error?

the first line has the "if aDir<=5 while the other lines the arrows  (> <)  is reversed "if aDir>=5

please explain how you set it up for L/R and Centernudge direction and strength in the latest VBSscripts 3-39.

 

If aDir < 5 or aDir > 355 Then aDir = aDir + 0 : aForce = 1.2 : ReturnPercent = 50

If aDir >= 5 and aDir <= 175 Then aDir = 60 : aForce = 1 : ReturnPercent = 90

If aDir >= 185 and aDir <= 355 Then aDir = 300 : aForce = 1 : ReturnPercent = 90

aDir = aDir + (Rnd-0.5)*15*aForce : aForce = (0.6+Rnd*0.8)*aForce

Nudge aDir, aForce

Edited by chas, 23 March 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[rob046]

I'm a desktop user, and I remember VP8 nudging. I think VP8 nudging was perfect for desktop use. But for cabinet use it was good that's why the "VP9" nudging were invented.

Why not add both to the VP code? And simply selected from the script?

 

It really was about as perfect as you'll get for digital nudging, which is all the more disappointing that we no longer have it.

I also still fail to understand why it can't be incorporated in some way.  I can think of a couple ways.

I guess this is why some desktop users would get angry at this subject & think there was some conspiracy of certain people only caring if cab users are happy since that is what people spend money on.  I won't go so far as to say that. 

 

I can definitely see why some things turn off desktop users though.  & this nudging issue is certainly one of them, I know it is definitely wearing me down as a user.  If I don't use the above conservative settings on blur's code, I can keep a ball in play almost at will, which isn't very enjoyable.

I fired up some original VP9 tables last night, & on some of them they just can't even be played unless you forgo nudging altogether. 

I sure do hope something can be done, but I said that a couple years ago as well.  With VP being open source now, you just wouldn't think an issue like this would persist for so long.

Edited by rob046, 23 March 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[koadic]

Alright, I have updated the core to v3.41 which includes the ablity to create a NudgePlugIn.vbs file to override the default nudging included in the core. Feel free to create one of your own, or use/modify the one I am attaching to this post...

 Custom Nudge.zip   47.98KB   115 downloads

The zip file contains a NudgePlugIn.vbs file, a nudge.mp3 and tilt.mp3 file based on Blur's 3.33 version of the core.vbs available in his signature. You can use it as is, or you can modify it to your liking. Any future update of the core will not overwrite your nudge settings and they should be autoloaded with newer versions.

[rob046]

Alright, I have updated the core to v3.41 which includes the ablity to create a NudgePlugIn.vbs file to override the default nudging included in the core. Feel free to create one of your own, or use/modify the one I am attaching to this post...

Custom nudge.zip=Nudge.zip

The zip file contains a NudgePlugIn.vbs file, a nudge.mp3 and tilt.mp3 file based on Blur's 3.33 version of the core.vbs available in his signature. You can use it as is, or you can modify it to your liking. Any future update of the core will not overwrite your nudge settings and they should be autoloaded with newer versions.

 

Thank you!  Works fine with the new vbs.  The above is the old outdated code though, I went ahead & put in my latest version of blur's code, for those who don't mind a more realistic & challenging nudge.  But this version of the code is also a little easier to tweak for those who want to do their own thing, & with the individual return percentage settings as well.

Might be good to sticky this plugin now that this custom nudging has a permanent home & people don't have to worry about updating it with each vbs update.

Attached Files

•  Custom_Nudging_Plugin_rob046_Tweaked.zip   1.51KB   47 downloads

[chas]

robo, you deleted the nudge sound in the script.

does it still play the tilt and nudge sounds?

and how do we change the L/R and Centernudge direction and strength?

if i tweak it to my own will it play the tilt/nudge sound?

 

koadic, if i tweak it custom do i need to keep the nudge sound in the script for it to work?.

 

some tables i have the script in the table folder.

it got a script error.

i took  the blue ball table out of the table folder into the vp9x folder with the scripts in the table folder and the scripts in the pinmame script folder.

it still got a script error.

i put it back into the folder.

then it worked.

why do some tables do this?

Edited by chas, 24 March 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[rob046]

robo, you deleted the nudge sound in the script.

does it still play the tilt and nudge sounds?

and how do we change the L/R and Centernudge direction and strength?

if i tweak it to my own will it play the tilt/nudge sound?

 

koadic, if i tweak it custom do i need to keep the nudge sound in the script for it to work?.

 

some tables i have the script in the table folder.

it got a script error.

i took  the blue ball table out of the table folder into the vp9x folder with the scripts in the table folder and the scripts in the pinmame script folder.

it still got a script error.

i put it back into the folder.

then it worked.

why do some tables do this?

 

I forget why I deleted those, probably because I just rely on rom's for tilt sounds, then nudge sounds are also usually built into the table, & so these sounds wouldn't really be needed.  I don't use that tilt sound at all, but adding the nudge sound can't hurt for tables that don't have it.  I went ahead & added those lines of code back in, it is attached.

 

To change direction, the value you want to change is aDir for each direction.  Currently on my tweaks the line with aDir at 0 is forward nudge, 300 is left nudge & 60 is right nudge.  For strength, that is the aForce value.  I just have this set to 1 on each direction.  That is the lowest you can go & still have some screen shake effect.  Also it is pretty close to realistic for me.

 

No idea what you are talking about with your error.  What is the "blue ball" table?

Attached Files

•  Custom_Nudging_Plugin_rob046_Tweaked_2.zip   1.53KB   48 downloads

Edited by rob046, 24 March 2013 - 06:29 AM.

[chas]

robo, you deleted the nudge sound in the script.

does it still play the tilt and nudge sounds?

and how do we change the L/R and Centernudge direction and strength?

if i tweak it to my own will it play the tilt/nudge sound?

 

koadic, if i tweak it custom do i need to keep the nudge sound in the script for it to work?.

 

some tables i have the script in the table folder.

it got a script error.

i took  the blue ball table out of the table folder into the vp9x folder with the scripts in the table folder and the scripts in the pinmame script folder.

it still got a script error.

i put it back into the folder.

then it worked.

why do some tables do this?

 

I forget why I deleted those, probably because I just rely on rom's for tilt sounds, then nudge sounds are also usually built into the table, & so these sounds wouldn't really be needed.  I don't use that tilt sound at all, but adding the nudge sound can't hurt for tables that don't have it.  I went ahead & added those lines of code back in, it is attached.

 

To change direction, the value you want to change is aDir for each direction.  Currently on my tweaks the line with aDir at 0 is forward nudge, 300 is left nudge & 60 is right nudge.  For strength, that is the aForce value.  I just have this set to 1 on each direction.  That is the lowest you can go & still have some screen shake effect.  Also it is pretty close to realistic for me.

 

No idea what you are talking about with your error.  What is the "blue ball" table?

robo>>>>No idea what you are talking about with your error.  What is the "blue ball" table?>>>>

chas>>>>the table in the folder.....im pretty sure most zipped tables come in a folder.....RAR does not.....after unRARing a table the blue ball was not in a folder.....after extracting some zipped table folders it had a script error....loaded the script in the folder....then it loaded and played....most zipped tables play without the script in the folder....can the wizards give me an idea why some tables do this script error thing without the script in the table folder.

 

koadics tilt/nudge sound was pretty cool....i was just asking if i mod the tilt will the sound still work.

 

whats this on the last line?.....

aDir = aDir + (Rnd-0.5)*15*aForce : aForce = (0.6+Rnd*0.8)*aForce

 

what is percent return?

 

could you open a older script.....open bally.....in the script i was trying for something like this.

its a little more simple and straight forward....

this is from bally 3-36

maybe my mod did not work because i did not use the Donudge script.

i used a VP table.

' Keyboard handlers
Function vpmKeyDown(ByVal keycode)
    On Error Resume Next
    vpmKeyDown = True ' Assume we handle the key
    With Controller
        If keycode = RightFlipperKey Then .Switch(swLRFlip) = True
        If keycode = LeftFlipperKey  Then .Switch(swLLFlip) = True
        Select Case keycode
            Case keyInsertCoin1  vpmTimer.AddTimer 750,"vpmTimer.PulseSw swCoin1'" : Playsound SCoin
            Case keyInsertCoin2  vpmTimer.AddTimer 750,"vpmTimer.PulseSw swCoin2'" : Playsound SCoin
            Case keyInsertCoin3  vpmTimer.AddTimer 750,"vpmTimer.PulseSw swCoin3'" : Playsound SCoin
            Case StartGameKey    .Switch(swStartButton) = True
            Case keySelfTest     .Switch(swSelfTest)    = True
            Case keyCPUDiag      .Switch(swCPUDiag)     = True
            Case keySoundDiag    .Switch(swSoundDiag)   = True
            Case keySlamDoorHit  .Switch(swSlamTilt)    = True
            Case keyBangBack     vpmNudge.DoNudge  180, 1.25
            Case LeftTiltKey     vpmNudge.DoNudge  45, 1
            Case RightTiltKey    vpmNudge.DoNudge 315, 1
            Case CenterTiltKey   vpmNudge.DoNudge   180, 1.25
            Case Else            vpmKeyDown = False
        End Select
    End With

Edited by chas, 24 March 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[chas]

If aDir < 5 or aDir > 355 Then aDir = aDir + 0 : aForce = 1.2 : ReturnPercent = 50

If aDir >= 5 and aDir <= 175 Then aDir = 60 : aForce = 1 : ReturnPercent = 90

If aDir >= 185 and aDir <= 355 Then aDir = 300 : aForce = 1 : ReturnPercent = 90

aDir = aDir + (Rnd-0.5)*15*aForce : aForce = (0.6+Rnd*0.8)*aForce

Nudge aDir, aForce

 

what is Random(Rnd) and percent return?..... there is a force of 1 and 1.2...here it is again,,,,,just trying to understand what you did.

aDir = aDir + (Rnd-0.5)*15*aForce : aForce = (0.6+Rnd*0.8)*aForce

Nudge aDir, aForce

 

Edited by chas, 25 March 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[blur]

rnd is randomizing angle and strength a little so that nudge is not always the same

you can safely remove that if you want

 

return percent is strength of counter kick on the ball (kick in opposite direction)

[chepas]

Dumb question but how do I add this into VP?

[koadic]

Dumb question but how do I add this into VP?

Make sure you have the latest core.vbs file and download or create a NudgePlugIn.vbs file and move it into your tables/scripts folder.

[chepas]

Thanks. I had allready done that but didn't really seem to make any difference. I'll try again.

[blur]

Here is my NudgePlugin.vbs with some bug fixes i made a long time ago on my rig.

This is hardcore version - return percent is 100% but you can change it to whatever you want.

This version uses preferred angles, preferred strenght, and even preferred sensitivity so you can override anything in any table.

For example you want to save ball easily so you never lose the ball - set aForce to 2 and returnpercent to 0.

You want to use tilt bob but you get lot's of nudges, instead of 1 - set tiempofiltro to 2000.

You want to nudge without pause between nudges - set tiempofiltro to 0

You want diagonal side nudge, instead of horizontal - set angles to 90+45 and 270-45

You want bigger counter force then force - no problem - set returnpercent to 150 or 200 (it is possible eventhough it is percent)

etc...

 

Spoiler

 

'--------------------
' Alternative Nudge
'     by Blur
'--------------------

' For use with core.vbs version 3.41 or greater
' Move into folder with other scripts

Option Explicit

' cvpmNudge2 (Object = vpmNudge)
'   Hopefully we can add a real pendulum simulator in the future
'   (Public)  .TiltSwitch    - set tilt switch
'   (Public)  .Sensitivity   - Set tiltsensitivity (0-10)
'   (Public)  .NudgeSound	 - set nudge sound, has to be in table
'   (Public)  .TiltSound	 - set tilt sound, has to be in table
'   (Public)  .NudgeMusic	 - mp3 file with nudge sound in music dir
'   (Public)  .TiltMusic	 - mp3 file with tilt sound in music dir
'   (Public)  .TiltObj       - Set objects affected by tilt
'   (Public)  .DoNudge dir,power - Nudge table
'   (Public)  .SolGameOn     - Game On solenoid handler
'   (Private) .Update        - Handle tilting

class cvpmNudge2
	Private mCount, mSensitivity, pSensitivity, mNudgeTimer, mSlingBump, mForce
	Private mCount2, mReturnCount, mReturnDir, mReturnForce
	Public TiltSwitch
	Private NudgeInterval, TiempoFiltro, ReturnTime, ReturnPercent
	Public NudgeSound, TiltSound, NudgeMusic, TiltMusic

	Private Sub Class_Initialize
		' set defaults for all tables here or change them from your table script
		NudgeInterval = 1000	' time in ms after which nudge count goes down
		TiempoFiltro = 200		' nudge filtering time in ms
		ReturnTime = 200		' time after which return force bumps in
		pSensitivity = 5		' preferred sensitivity overrides table settings
		mSensitivity = 5		' default sensitivity used if not defined in table
		NudgeSound = ""			' sound has to be in table
		TiltSound = ""			' sound has to be in table
		NudgeMusic = "nudge.mp3"' put this file in music dir
		TiltMusic = "tilt.mp3"	' put this file in music dir
		'StartShake				' uncomment to enable table shaking
		PlayMusic NudgeMusic	' plays music to avoid stutter on first run
		mCount2 = 0 : mReturnCount = 0 : mReturnDir = 0 : mReturnForce = 0
		mCount = 0 : TiltSwitch = 0 : vpmTimer.AddResetObj Me
	End sub

	Private Property Let NeedUpdate(aEnabled) : vpmTimer.EnableUpdate Me, False, aEnabled : End Property

	Public Property Let TiltObj(aSlingBump)
		Dim ii
		ReDim mForce(vpmSetArray(mSlingBump, aSlingBump))
		For ii = 0 To UBound(mForce)
			If TypeName(mSlingBump(ii)) = "Bumper" Then mForce(ii) = mSlingBump(ii).Force
			If TypeName(mSlingBump(ii)) = "Wall" Then mForce(ii) = mSlingBump(ii).SlingshotStrength
		Next
	End Property

	Public Property Let Sensitivity(aSens) 
		If pSensitivity = 0 Then mSensitivity = (10-aSens)+1 Else mSensitivity = pSensitivity
	End property

	Public Sub DoNudge(ByVal aDir, ByVal aForce)
		If mCount2 > 0 and mCount2 < TiempoFiltro\conTimerPulse then exit sub
		mcount2 = 1
		mReturnCount = 1
		' preferred angles, force and return force are defined in next lines, set them as you like
		If aDir < 5 or aDir > 355 Then aDir = 180 : aForce = 1.25 : ReturnPercent = 100
		If aDir >= 5 and aDir <= 175 Then aDir = 90 : aForce = 1 : ReturnPercent = 100
		If aDir >= 185 and aDir <= 355 Then aDir = 270 : aForce = 1 : ReturnPercent = 100
		aDir = aDir + (Rnd-0.5)*15*aForce : aForce = (0.6+Rnd*0.8)*aForce
		Nudge aDir, aForce
		If NudgeSound <> "" Then PlaySound NudgeSound Else PlayMusic NudgeMusic
		mReturnDir = aDir + 180
		mReturnForce = aForce * ReturnPercent / 100
		If TiltSwitch = 0 Then Exit Sub ' If no switch why care
		mCount = mCount + aForce * 1.2
		If mCount > mSensitivity + 10 Then mCount = mSensitivity + 10
		If mCount >= mSensitivity Then vpmTimer.PulseSw TiltSwitch : If TiltSound <> "" Then PlaySound TiltSound Else PlayMusic TiltMusic
		NeedUpdate = True
	End sub

	Public Sub Update
		mCount2 = mCount2 + 1
		If mReturnCount > 0 Then mReturnCount = mReturnCount + 1
		If mReturnForce > 0 and mReturnCount > ReturnTime\conTimerPulse Then mReturnCount = 0 : Nudge mReturnDir, mReturnForce
		If mCount > 0 Then
			mNudgeTimer = mNudgeTimer + 1
			If mNudgeTimer > NudgeInterval\conTimerPulse Then
				If mCount > mSensitivity+1 Then mCount = mCount - 1 : vpmTimer.PulseSw TiltSwitch
				mCount = mCount - 1 : mNudgeTimer = 0
			End If
		Else
			mCount = 0
		End If
		' alow next nudge after tiempofiltro
		If mCount2 > TiempoFiltro\conTimerPulse Then mCount2 = 0
		If mCount = 0 and mCount2 = 0 Then NeedUpdate = False
	End Sub

	Public Sub Reset : mCount = 0 : End Sub

	Public Sub SolGameOn(aEnabled)
		Dim obj, ii
		If aEnabled Then
			ii = 0
			For Each obj In mSlingBump
				If TypeName(obj) = "Bumper" Then obj.Force = mForce(ii) 
				If TypeName(obj) = "Wall" Then obj.SlingshotStrength = mForce(ii)
				ii = ii + 1
			Next
		Else
			For Each obj In mSlingBump
				If TypeName(obj) = "Bumper" Then obj.Force = 0
				If TypeName(obj) = "Wall" Then obj.SlingshotStrength = 0
			Next
		End If
	End Sub
End Class

 

 

 

[chepas]

Very good Blur , thanks alot!

[chepas]

I noticed a problem maybe with that. I knew Scared Stiff was one of the easiest tables to nudge your way to a high score, so I put it to the test with that table.

 

It will nudge the ball at least 3 times then it just stops working, I can then bash nudge L/R/C but won't do anything, ball doesn't move + no tilt on machine.

[blur]

only on scared stiff? which version of table?

[chepas]

Yes. It only seems to be that table so far. Scared_Stiff_VP91x_1.4.4FS

Edited by chepas, 25 March 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[blur]

yeah i see why it is so easy to nudge - force was 2 for sides and 3 for front, sensitivity is 1 (minimum sensitivity).

 

i'm getting some loops on nudge update - will have to check why

[blur]

I've found two things - none of them is related to this scared stiff problem:

 

1. chas i found why you keep geting message - Can't open "core.vbs" - you get this message because you have some syntax error in your core scripts (doesn't have to be core) - i got this when i tried to debug nudge update function - i've put msgbox mcount mcount2 which is syntax error - it should be msgbox mcount & "  " & mcount2 (this is my error - yours is probably different)

so if you get Can't open "core.vbs" you have some syntax error somewhere - core file is probably in the right place

 

2. while debuging - i got hundreds of this msgbox messages one by one - since they are in a loop - you can't stop them except by closing editor - and when you close editor vp will crash - which means (my conclusion) - vp will crash if any dialog box is open while you are closing vp editor - when dialog box is open vp's main thread is dead - it cannot do anything - it cannot stop controller, pause controller, unpause controller, close player - nothing - just like word when you have open or save dialog box opened somewhere and none of the toolbar buttons or menus respond any more.

Why is this important - this is the reason why vp is crashing when it has resume game dialog box open and fplaunch closes editor - vp player will crash because it is dead - it cannot respond to close window peacefully windows request, vp player cannot respond to anything because it's main thread is stuck on dialog box.

[chas]

I've found two things - none of them is related to this scared stiff problem:

 

1. chas i found why you keep geting message - Can't open "core.vbs" - you get this message because you have some syntax error in your core scripts (doesn't have to be core) - i got this when i tried to debug nudge update function - i've put msgbox mcount mcount2 which is syntax error - it should be msgbox mcount & "  " & mcount2 (this is my error - yours is probably different)

so if you get Can't open "core.vbs" you have some syntax error somewhere - core file is probably in the right place

 

2. while debuging - i got hundreds of this msgbox messages one by one - since they are in a loop - you can't stop them except by closing editor - and when you close editor vp will crash - which means (my conclusion) - vp will crash if any dialog box is open while you are closing vp editor - when dialog box is open vp's main thread is dead - it cannot do anything - it cannot stop controller, pause controller, unpause controller, close player - nothing - just like word when you have open or save dialog box opened somewhere and none of the toolbar buttons or menus respond any more.

Why is this important - this is the reason why vp is crashing when it has resume game dialog box open and fplaunch closes editor - vp player will crash because it is dead - it cannot respond to close window peacefully windows request, vp player cannot respond to anything because it's main thread is stuck on dialog box.

thanks for your time to look this over.

if i remember correct i did get a "syntax" error when making changes in the script for kickers and tilt/nudge changes.

it was usually a keyboard typing error with a comma or period.

 

blur>>>>>return percent is strength of counter kick on the ball (kick in opposite direction)<<<< ,,,,,you mean "percent return" is a stronger nudge?.....i have not installed the updates yet.....my PC has no card and been feeling a little under the weather......thanks

Edited by chas, 26 March 2013 - 06:22 AM.