85 replies to this topic

[rob046]

This is blur's custom nudge code that I also made some tweaks to a while back, & now I incorporated it into the 3.37 VBS.  Simply replace the existing core.vbs with this one.

It still isn't perfect but it is certainly better than the default nudging by a landslide.

Btw, are the devs working on fixing this code?  Seems like a very basic problem that should of been fixed a long time ago, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Zip is attached.

Attached Files

•  Custom_Nudging_Core_VBS_3.37.zip   21.42KB   216 downloads

[destruk]

Josh Sharpe said the nudging we use now is accurate.  So no I don't think we were working on it.

[rob046]

Josh Sharpe said the nudging we use now is accurate.  So no I don't think we were working on it.

 

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not!  Or was Josh Sharpe playing VP8?  Cuz VP8 nudging isn't too bad.

[ArcadiusMaximus]

Any list of tweaks? Why is this an improvement? What sort of changes were made? Thanks !

[Bob5453]

That must have been Josh 2.0

[destruk]

Just sayin', he personally played and approved each and every table for Ultrapin, and if nudging was worse in 9 than 8 he wouldn't have approved any of it for sale, so people who know and live pinball in worldwide tournaments approve of the nudging system, who are you to argue with them?  I guess everyone won't be happy until each physics interaction of the program can be customized to their own personal taste no matter how unrealistic or wrong it is.

[OuchTilt]

Do these changes effect both digital and analog nudges?

[blur]

Just sayin', he personally played and approved each and every table for Ultrapin, and if nudging was worse in 9 than 8 he wouldn't have approved any of it for sale, so people who know and live pinball in worldwide tournaments approve of the nudging system, who are you to argue with them?  I guess everyone won't be happy until each physics interaction of the program can be customized to their own personal taste no matter how unrealistic or wrong it is.

 

Yeah right.

So when you make front nudge and ball goes up - that's realistic. On some tables if you make left and right nudges ball also goes up - only few degrees left or right - that's realistic?

When you set angle properly and nudge from right and ball goes all the way to the right flipper so that you can save every middle drain - that's also realistic?

You can even shoot drop targets when ball goes near them just by nudging.

So who's wrong or unrealistic?

 

Are you even using digital nudge in ultra pin or you have some analog device?

Edited by blur, 11 March 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[toxie]

I guess that's it: digital vs analog.. for my digital setup, i actually also prefer the new settings (but i'm also just an average player )..

[blur]

I guess you are wrong and unrealistic. What do you know - Josh Sharpe said it's ok. Do you think you know better then Josh Sharpe?

Maybe we should ask Josh Sharpe to write next release of core.vbs.

Edited by blur, 11 March 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[ArcadiusMaximus]

Does this improve nudging when using the nanotech plunger or pbw? Nothing is more frustrating then nudging one side and the ball goes the opposite way. Not to be a thrid wheel in a disagreement but maybe you should just list what sort of new features or changes this revised core offers and have people use it on a take it or leave it basis.

[koadic]

It is my understanding that it is for digital nudging only.

[Noah Fentz]

There are a number of tables, mine with UR and JP's that fix the nudge in the script. How are these affected by this nudge routine? Toxie, weren't you working or at least looking into fixing the nudge? When you nudge a cabinet, the ball should go the opposite direction you're nudging. If it doesn't, change the rotation setting in the editor.

[toxie]

@Noah: I wanted to look at that, yes, but haven't gotten around to something useful yet, especially as it's pretty confusing with all the stuff that is split with the physics core, core.vbs and some custom table code..

[kruge99]

I think there needs to be a distinction here between keyboard nudge and the nudge as it pertains to the Pinball Wizard/Nanotech plunger, aka an accelerometer nudge device.

 

We need to clarify all of this before we can effectively create a fix. 

 

Does the Ultrapin Destruk is referring to use an accelerometer similar to the Pinball Wizard/Nanotech plunger? 

 

How does the keyboard nudge differ from the nudge derived from the Pinball Wizard/Nanotech plunger nudge?

 

btw - people who use tilt bob mechanisms or mercury microswitches connected to a keyboard encoder or similar device to "nudge" the table are actually using the keyboard to nudge so their input into fixing the nudge routine needs to be described as a "keyboard" nudge.

 

Based on Destruk's assertion regarding Josh Sharp's comments, we shouldn't be trying to fix the Ultrapin/Pinball Wizard nudge since it has been determined to be accurate?

 

Based on the above, people who claim the nudge doesn't work are effectively using the keyboard nudge in VP9?  Does this make sense?

[Noah Fentz]

@ toxie - I would focus on the physics core. The rest is easily configurable externally. My thought was to leave it as is, by default, and have nudge force, counter force, and shake effect configurable. This would leave everything else to the author. Not everyone has the same opinion on what nudge effect is correct.

 

I really appreciate all your efforts!

 

[blur]

this thread is deja vu - it was all discussed before in thread new core with better nudge which you can find in my signature (second link)

 

it is about digital nudging only - it won't change analog nudge from any analog nudge device (pbw or ushock or sidewinder or ...)

 

there was some discussion about should vp internal nudge command (called by donudge function from core) do nudge different - like move table instead of ball or do nudge and counter nudge automatically - but same effect is done here with core.vbs alone - without tinkering with internal vp nudge function

 

for me moving table or ball is the same thing just from different angle - when ball moves - coordinate system is fixed to table, when table moves coordinate system is fixed to ball but in the end effect is the same

 

as for applying counter force automatically from vp internal nudge function - i'm not sure how that will affect analog nudge devices

 

any way - with this script you have possibility to set counter force to 100% or to zero - whatever you like

and you can set nudge filter time for people that have tilt bobs that send many nudges as soon as you tilt the table

also you can set preferred angle and strength which will be applied regardless what angle and strength table author called from script

 

there are lot's of tables that just use wrong angles for nudging - that's something you can't fix in vp source - if you call good function with wrong data it will always give wrong results

Edited by blur, 11 March 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[Noah Fentz]

The primary goal was to allow the nudge force and shake to be independently configurable and add counterforce. This cannot be achieved outside the source.

 

For originals, it would be nice to have it built into VP, so authors wouldn't have to make calls to the core.vbs, as well.

 

This is just my opinion, of course. The devs are good at finding a 'happy medium' solution.

[rob046]

If it isn't clear by now, of course this nudge fix is for native VP9 nudging just using the keyboard, apparently.  I don't know what cabinet people have or do or how it all works for them.  Even if devs don't use desktop, I don't know who does or doesn't, please realize just how jacked up the nudging is for desktop.

Yesterday I removed this custom nudge from a table I was working on, & it was awfully bad (I mean really bad) & it was a little irritating to know that this is the nudging that a lot of people still put up with.  I wish everybody would simply use this custom nudge code, but that is impossible.

 

You can have a table play pretty damn close to real life in VP9 these days, but then just this 1 thing that somehow doesn't stack up to all the other great VP elements, the nudging.  If VP9 nudging was just a little off, I'd let it slide, but it is really bad & these conversations have been going on for years, yet still no sign any fix is coming.  This custom code isn't ideal either, but its still better than the alternative.

[Pinball999]

Thanks Rob. But this core.vbs deactivates the force feedback on my cab.

I'll try to indentify which part fixes the nudge and add it to my old core.vbs.

 

BTW, does yours also allows to modify the ball size?

 

Cheers.