58 replies to this topic

[Noah Fentz]

After some investigation, it has been determined that Knome is a former member that has been banned and returned under an alt.

Just ignore him.

If this is in some way in error, "Knome", feel free to email me.

Thank you.

[jimmyfingers]

Oh yah, forgot to also mention some humility and gratitude for the people who run the site for VP

Edited by jimmyfingers, 16 May 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[pinuck]

To be honest though, it's the EMs that I made this routine for and for which I feel it can work best if tuned and if table physics changed to match / compliment the effect can be great. In Toronto a new place opened called Pinball Cafe and I was amazed at how slow real life pins were seeming compared to the average VP. But they weren't just slow with the ball like it was rolling on a carpet, the slow ones had the ball spend tons of time bouncing off things side to side and once headed down table rather straightly, would motor pretty good.

This all sounds very interesting - is there a before/after table to try out to see the effects? I'd be interested in trying it in my C37 table if it works out.

btw, if you like the Pinball Cafe, my friend just opened a bar in the Junction with 3 pins in it: Bally Supersonic (from the pinball cafe), Centigrade 37 and Mata Hari. Cool place, great microbrews on tap.

http://www.blogto.co...as-west-toronto

[unclewilly]

is that shocky returned. i was thinking the same with the nudge comment.

i think the engine is great jimmy. it wil be an addition to all new and update tables from me. thanks for writing this

[jimmyfingers]

This all sounds very interesting - is there a before/after table to try out to see the effects? I'd be interested in trying it in my C37 table if it works out.

Yes. Noah was super cool in allowing me to upload this MOD applied to his and UncleReamus' already outsanding FirePower table. The FS and desktop versions were just released last night.

Here are the links:
http://www.vpforums....mp;#entry177801
http://www.vpforums....mp;#entry177791 (desktop)

It was one I had already spent a fair bit of time tweaking for the B.M.P.R. and some other personal tastes and tests which is also why I'm super appreciative of Noah giving the green light to post it even with a few other changes. Using this existing personal version helped me greatly in getting the first working demo to everyone quicker.

As far as other tables / demos I sent a basic implementation of it on Freddy to UW, which was chosen as it is one of the more demanding tables that has a bit of stutter for some people and was to help demonstrate how virtually zero the performance impact is when using the B.M.P.R. I am also working on modding Captain Fantastic B2S for Rosve to assess / potentially release. Lastly, I am working on rather low sleep for several nights in a row now so may be a few more days before anything else can be delivered to other authors / posted

Oh ya, thanks Pinuck for that link and information regarding that other place in Toronto (and actually for adding a picture as I totally want to go there now for a pint and a pin - it looks totally cool and I love the retro TV and VCR / VTR!)

Edited by jimmyfingers, 17 May 2012 - 05:27 PM.

[zoltar420]

Thanks for all your hard work!

[thewool]

Hello Jimmy,

this development is fascinating... I've downloaded both the test table and Fire Power and the effect of routine is definitely tangiable. In FP things seemed a little 'light' but as you mention the job for the community is to explore the tweaking - something I plan enjoy doing over the next few days

Is it easy for individuals to retro fit your routine to existing tables which already use the collision routine in the script? In other words is it possible to copy over the timer and part of the script or is it not that simple, I'm guessing probably not.

Cheers for the progress so far!

[unclewilly]

wool-
i believe there are some overlapping variable names. so the easiest way to retro fit other tables that already have thecollision engine would be to copy the collision script as well as the ball momentum script from firepower and paste them over top of the existing collision script.

jimmy also has some flipper and sling script modifications which work nicely.

he has added them to freddy. ill send you a copy as i want you to test it before i release the update

[jimmyfingers]

Hey Wool / UW, the place where I did see variable overlap previously was not really the collision script area so much but with rascal's ball rolling script as we both use velox(#), and veloy(#) variable definitions. I did see one conflict with another table I added the B.M.P.R. to with the collision script but that was because the table had defined the term "round" which was used to round the pi calculation in the ball collision and not necessarily anything different about the exact copied text one I had used (would have happened with any version of the collision script that still uses the round for the pi - vs. maybe someone just typing in 3.141 or something as the rounding was an issue I beleive with Windows XP 64-bit systems).

Only reason why I would say to initially just copy the momentum and leave the existing ball collision part for a table is that there will be likely different values for the array definitions for number of pinballs / sound files and possibly some UnHit sections someone may have added at the bottom for objects (kickers) that needed to call the newballid (I've seen that somewhere beside my own doing).

As far as the ball rolling script conflict (if rascal's is indeed in the table), then either rename those velox(#) and veloy(#) variables in his or simply replace the entire routine with my enhanced version of his ball rolling script from the FP MOD table (script code, timer object, and col0-col9 sound files).

Other than these nuances, copying the text / script section, the timer, and the light objects / base would get it going on another table. However, you of course are now going to have to alter the table's general physics settings after the momentum routine is actively processing things and are best to start tweaking with similar values as FP or the demo table for the slope, friction, and those other main parameters.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 22 May 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[MRZ999]

Im hoping for the feeling of "rubbers" in Visual Pinball and Future Pinball. Hard to explain in english but if you have a new rubber-kit installed in your pinball you know that the ball bounce on the flippers alot higher.

[maceman]

Hey Jimmy,

This looks very cool. I missed most of this while away, but am very interested in trying this... If you need someone to help in any testing on a cab, let me know. I have several versions of different tables in different xml's to see the differences between tables, and if you need any honest reporting back, i can help....

Cheers,
Maceman

ps. I am going to start trying some of the tables you recently modded now that i see what you are doing...kinda

[thewool]

Hey Jimmy, thanks for that reply.

Last night I downloaded the Mata Hari table and experienced some great games on this mod. I thought on this table the improvrments were much more subtle than on Firepower whish is a good thing . After watching some videos of actual gameplay, I made some really small changes to the table settings (increased slope ever so slightly, reduced contact friction, increased dampening speed a touch). This is all objective of course

One I thing I have noticed regarding the contact friction in tables... if it's too high the ball movement (acceleration, decelereation at an apex point for example) manifests as being very linear. Some of the changes I made were to give the ball morre freedom (I hope this makes sense).

I haven't tweaked your script settings yet as I need to understand them more, but just wanted to say congrats on the MH mod, on this none I felt nothing drastically needed changing! Is there any chance one of your GI8 mods will see this routine? I would love to get a feel for it on one of the more modern DMD tables...

Cheers!

[jimmyfingers]

I plan on modding the Bram Stoker's Dracula GI8 MOD for the B.M.P.R. soon and likely release the Scared Stiff GI8 as well as time permits. Both I will really want to assess in detail as to the changes and confirm certain parts of the game play aren't too different. Previously my GI8 MODs were intentionally non physics / game play changing and entirely aesthetic which would change with the BMPR MOD being added.

[jimmyfingers]

Updated to Version 1.1:

- One simple but big improvement has been added where the routine now only augments the lateral / X momentum when the ball is slowing down
- It is noticeably different and more realistic now, IMHO, mainly in the in and out lane areas as well as when trapping the ball and with the flippers up

The first post / page of this topic has been updated with the latest attached version of B.M.P.R. (1.1). For demo purposes, I have in the table script an audio sound of a ball collision that is triggered every time the ball is deemed to be speeding up which helps depict where this enhancement is being applied and hence lateral augmentation being cancelled. This will only be heard / apply when the ball was in the potential range for the effect to be applied in the first place (from MXCutoff to MXThreshold). The net result, as I (and others) believe, will be a more realistic and refined momentum effect.

I will be updating the current MODs (FirePower and Mata Hari) that have been released with this system to include this small but effective update. Thanks Rosve for planting the seed on this improvement as I may not have got on this enhancement as quickly (or possibly at all) without the correspondence we had.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 01 June 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[teppotee]

UW: Do you have any plans to release this new version of Freddy with BMPR changes (and maybe along with the new alpha performance fixes) as well?

jimmyfingers: How about BMPR modified Scared Stiff you mentioned above?

I just played the modified BSD table and loved the way it played. I would really like to try other BMPR modified SS tables as well (EM tables just are not for me...)

Anyway, I don't want to sound like rushing you guys. Just hoping to get to play them sometime... whenever you're ready!

[JAM0]

UW: Do you have any plans to release this new version of Freddy with BMPR changes (and maybe along with the new alpha performance fixes) as well?

jimmyfingers: How about BMPR modified Scared Stiff you mentioned above?

I just played the modified BSD table and loved the way it played. I would really like to try other BMPR modified SS tables as well (EM tables just are not for me...)

Anyway, I don't want to sound like rushing you guys. Just hoping to get to play them sometime... whenever you're ready!

I would love to play SS with this too

[unclewilly]

yes freddy will be done soon

[jimmyfingers]

UW: Do you have any plans to release this new version of Freddy with BMPR changes (and maybe along with the new alpha performance fixes) as well?

jimmyfingers: How about BMPR modified Scared Stiff you mentioned above?

I just played the modified BSD table and loved the way it played. I would really like to try other BMPR modified SS tables as well (EM tables just are not for me...)

Anyway, I don't want to sound like rushing you guys. Just hoping to get to play them sometime... whenever you're ready!

It will still be a little while for Scared Stiff for a few reasons including more failures to launch since the latest VpinMAME.dll. I think the larger size / increased capabilities of the .dll are taking more memory and when used outside of UVP, it appears to share the application memory space with VP which can be right at the limit for some tables. If I go back to older versions I can get it to launch. I also would have some flipper work to do and have to see how that jives with the flipper animations (bones). At some point, it will be done and I have checked the performance boost from the alpha optimizations recently posted which helps to smooth out play. I'd likely do an update to BSD first with the optimizations as that would be a quicker fix.

I want to actually wind down a little VP soon (temporarily) and enjoy the summer before it's gone so will probably try and force myself away from some things which means an update to Scared Stiff likely after the summer. I spent this whole weekend inside playing around with tables due to the new alpha discovery but that's the last marathon I want to do on any weekend while it's summer with the weather being potentially really nice and beckoning. I'm sure everyone on this forum that has got into some depths with VP can attest to how it can absorb you (one more tweak, just try this, etc.). Gotta try and balance it out as I'm single and if I allow myself to indulge VP too much, I'm going to never be anything but.

Still, really enjoyed this alpha performance improvement and it helps make all the previous work even more worth while as overall myself and everyone will be able to enjoy VP a little better because of things like that and general developments / new features.

JF

[cooney]

To be honest though, it's the EMs that I made this routine for and for which I feel it can work best if tuned and if table physics changed to match / compliment the effect can be great. In Toronto a new place opened called Pinball Cafe and I was amazed at how slow real life pins were seeming compared to the average VP. But they weren't just slow with the ball like it was rolling on a carpet, the slow ones had the ball spend tons of time bouncing off things side to side and once headed down table rather straightly, would motor pretty good.

This all sounds very interesting - is there a before/after table to try out to see the effects? I'd be interested in trying it in my C37 table if it works out.

btw, if you like the Pinball Cafe, my friend just opened a bar in the Junction with 3 pins in it: Bally Supersonic (from the pinball cafe), Centigrade 37 and Mata Hari. Cool place, great microbrews on tap.

http://www.blogto.co...as-west-toronto

My kind of place.. Love the Betamax!