97 replies to this topic

[FDSystems]

Intel: 8.15.10.2253

Geforce GT 540M: 8.17.12.6672

After various trials, I came back to the original ones, provided by Samsung updates, they came with the laptop.

[xio]

Not sure it's related to optimus technology but I'll post my problem here, as it' surely related to nvidia.

I got a new Asus laptop with two GPU : intel hd 4000 & nvidia gt650m, and this kind guy named optimus choose the best one to use depending on what's running.

I installed VP, tweaked the program a little (run as admin, separate from desktop, XP compatibility), and played a few tables without problems. Then I installed FP, but it was clearly unplayable. I searched for what was wrong and that's how I met the guy, optimus. The nvidia activity icon was staying off, because lazy optimus didn't make his job. So I went to NVCP, add FP.exe in the program list, and forced it to use nvidia GPU. After that FP was smooth (as butter if it's the right english expression).

Then I wondered why I hadn't any problem with VP, so I checked the nvidia activity icon, and it was off. No way, I want to use my brand new card (that & the fact that I got some ugly glitchs with intel graphics) !
Same NVCP add, force, apply, launch VP with TAF : the table is unplayable (laggy as no butter....). I tried to change some video settings, 1024ko, decrease alpha, but it wasn't better. I searched on VPF & found this tread and some others about nvidia settings & drivers so I tried different settings (those given by maceman & those from Kris), still unplayable. Tried also to use older drivers (I had 306.87, last ones from nvidia) but same problem with 290.16.

I don't know what to try next, and don't understand how the intel integrated GPU can do better than a new nvidia one (David vs Goliath was a legend, wasn't it ?) so I'm looking for some help here !

[FDSystems]

I don't know what to try next, and don't understand how the intel integrated GPU can do better than a new nvidia one (David vs Goliath was a legend, wasn't it ?) so I'm looking for some help here !

Sad but true, & worse, NVidia is not giving support anymore ! A shame !

Same situation with AMD ATI hybrid graphics. Another shame


I have both! Lucky me !

In both cases the grap´hiccard * accepts FP cause it's 3D.

For VP I set everything to standard, but all the settings for energy, for the laptop, & for both cards to maximum performance.You can try to play a bit with antialiasing, & in the VP editor do your best to use as litttle ressources as possible, limit image size to 1024, uncheck antialiasing, alpha slider to the left, etc..........

I can run most VP tables reasonably & FP smoothly ! lolololol ! (no comments about the original physics, there are some very nice pinball PC games in FP!)


* no typo here.

Edited by FDSystems, 13 November 2012 - 12:35 AM.

[xio]

You mean there's nothing to do except trying to play with nvidia settings (what I've already done) ??

[FDSystems]

VP is run by the INTEL board, whatever you do.

Make sure everything is set on "high performance".

We've been ripped off.

Manque de bol.

Edited by FDSystems, 13 November 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[xio]

VP is run by the INTEL board, whatever you do.

No, VP is run by nvidia when I force it in the NVCP. That's why I was thinking it's not really an optimus issue. The thing is it's much slower with the nvidia GPU.
Maybe I should try with some more drivers. There must be a way, my old laptop with a worst GPU was doing much better !

[FDSystems]

What I meant is that there is NO WAY to have the NVidia run VP correctly.There are THOUSANDS of posts about that type of problems, particularly at www.notebookreview.com.

I have spent months on this problem & the same is happening with ATI Hybrid graphics.

In both cases, a RIP OFF.

[maceman]

Arghh... Is this thread still around We should call this the Nightmare thread!!

As to the issue, What i have found on my system (which is now with Asus in repair consequently, for a bad power port), is that i can only get VP to use the Nvidia card if i run something simultaneously that for sure uses the card. For example, GPU-Z. When i use GPU-Z, i see the blue Nvidia indicator light turn on.
This indicator tunrs off by itself upon loading FP, so no issues there, but VP does not, shall we say, 'stimulate' the Nvidia card to turn on...It needs an additional prompting!

I will NEVER buy an optimus based system again!!!

Also, it seems optimus is extremely picky with drivers. In my conversation with Asus and Nvidia, they mentioned using the manufacturer recommended drivers, which is garbage since they nolonger update/support the laptop they sell with updated drivers...so, in reality, they want us to use 2 year old drivers, which, by the way, never worked either!!

I may just throw this darned thing out once it is back from repair. So sick of Optimus!!!

Maceman

Edited by maceman, 13 November 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[FDSystems]

See what I mean? A BIG RIP OFF.

[xio]

I didn't find the posts you mentioned FDS (on www.notebookreview.com) ? maybe found one on the subject but the problem raised is often that nvidia GPU is not activated when running a program, which is not my problem.

I'm eager to think there's always a workaround so I tried to mail Asus about it, and I'll try with nvidia and some GPU forums.

VP is run by nvidia GPU (on my system anyway), so if the game is unplayable then it's a nvidia driver issue : I hope people from nvidia are able to find a solution.

[maceman]

I've gone down the contact route already... The issue is not with Nvidia.They are making cards to support the latest direct X and graphic intense programs.

The issue is when the cards switch. If your embedded card is not poweful enough for VP(which the intel HD 3000 is not), then unless you run the Nvidia card, you will not have good performance.

So, as i posted several times, the only work around is to force the nvidia card on because VP does not trigger optimus to switch.You do this as follows:

1. In the NVCP, switching to Max Performance and making sure the Nvidia card is listed as card of choice at top is mandatory
2. Control Panel Power options must be on high(max)
3. Something that kicks in the card must be loaded before VP (such as GPU-Z).

I think if VP utilized a later version of direct X, it would cause the card to automatically kick in, like FP does.

If they have any further info, i'd love to hear it, but i think you will find them quite oblivious to our hopes here!!

Maceman

Edited by maceman, 14 November 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[xio]

I don't understand why you guys are saying that VP is run by intel GPU and not nvidia.

According to this tool nvidia GPU does run VP :


That's why I think that it's not an optimus issue, as the graphic card switch looks to be done. And some switch is effectly done, as the tables play smooth when I ask optimus to use intel GPU (but with graphic glitchs).

Here's GPU-Z image : you can see core clock up when I lauched VP



But all this doesnt make the card run VP fine...

[xio]

I'm still struggling to make VP run correctly with Optimus/Nvidia/Intel

 

I confirm that VP is working smoothly if I play on the TV via HDMI.

Here are some logs :
http://img.techpower.../gpu_graphe.png
http://img.techpower...1201_130056.png

1st part of the graph (works) : HDMI/TV. VP uses Nvidia GPU without having to force it in NVCP. Usage low, Clock high.
2nd part (doesn't work) : back on laptop screen. Unplayable. Usage high, Clock medium.

I don't know if these graphs can help understanding what is going wrong for someone (maybe toxie ?).

[maceman]

Hi Xio,

 

Sorry, i missed your post 2 back...

 

I find it interesting that you are showing the GPU running with VP. Mine does not.

 

If you see here, this is with photoshop running:

 

If i turn off phostoshop, the GPU goes to OFF.  So the fact yours is even working amazes me.

 

I am wondering if it is because you are using a later driver.  I am using 268.12. Someone on another forum had mentioned that
"I have encountered the same problem and have been looking for a solution, but with no success so far. Unfortunately, the discrete GPU only seems to kick in after (some) D3D or CUDA calls, but not OpenGL calls. I've read NVidia or Intel are working on drivers that also include OpenGL calls, but for now there's little you can do about the situation. I have already experimented with CUDA calls, initialized a CUDA context and stuff (there's an own whitepaper for CUDA development with Optimus), but nothing seems to work, I'm stuck with the integrated GPU."

 

So my guess is maybe they fixed something in the later drivers. I can try upgrading but this darned machine has so many issues...

Edited by maceman, 03 December 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[xio]

Good news is that nvidia is right now trying to reproduce the issue on an optimus laptop. They already downloaded VP914, too bad the AIO installer is not ready yet. Anyway let's hope they will find out what's wrong.

 

Maceman, if you click right on VP.exe & choose "run with graphic processor"/nvidia high performance it still does not use nvidia GPU ?

[maceman]

Correct, it never uses the GPU for VP with the current driver and using the GT540M.

 

Here is an interesting little program i may try, that the guy claims will set the NVIDIA GPU to go on at startup for every program:

http://www.opentk.com/node/3103  (last post)

 

 

Starting your application with the discrete GPU on NVIDIA Optimus systems

http://www.opentk.com/node/3144

Edited by maceman, 03 December 2012 - 08:03 PM.

[maceman]

ok. some interesting findings.  I just loaded in the same driver as you Xio. The 306.XX.

 

I can report that it is working now for switching for VP as per this snap:

 

However, it is playing terrible in VP. Before uninstalling, i am going to try some further troubleshooting to see what is up. Can you post a snap of your current NVCP settings please. Thanx!

VP with this driver:

 

Maceman

[maceman]

Drat. This is really upsetting to me...  The 306.XX driver works EXCELLENT with FP and for optimus switching in general.

It just doesn't work for VP with my GT540M.  I verified that the integrated Intel works well with it, no glitches, but the Nvidia chokes. The alphanumeric display doesn't display as it cannot process, the ball trails and the sound cuts off....

 

I have to revert back unfortunately.

[maceman]

I am going to give the 310.XX Beta a whirl and see what happens, Such a shame because everything else runs great, except for VP..and well, VP is everything to me

 

 

EDIT:  No change.  So this is weird. Basically, on my system, with this card, using any newer NVIDIA driver works better for driving the optimus system, but renders VP useless.  But using the older driver, VP does not work to trigger the optimus system at all, but when a program like photoshop is on, and the State monitor confirms the nvidia card is on, then VP works glitch free. This tells me it MUST be the driver and not the card, since the card indeed works.

Edited by maceman, 03 December 2012 - 11:19 PM.

[xio]

OK so you're now about the same point as me. Except for one thing though : I do have ugly graphic glitches when I run VP with IGP (especially on lights like the one on TAF chair).

 

You can also have a try with TV connected to HDMI. It should run smoothly, so it's not an issue with the card itself, but with the optimus/GPU drivers.

Btw, didn't you mention in another post that you had it working with an MSI modified driver ?

 

As you say, everything works perfectly except THE program we need, whatever driver 3xx.xx is used. So there's also something specific with the way VP send instructions to GPU, that's why it could be helpful to have toxie's point of view.

 

I hope that guys from nvidia will be able to reproduce the issue in their lab, that's the only solution I can see right now.