156 replies to this topic

[Dazz]

As for the video, regardless of the reasons behind its removal, it's been removed (or blocked in some areas of the world) for a copyright violation. That's enough to warrant its removal here.

Sorry to be a pain, but I've been working on something that I haven't posted yet. I'm just trying to figure out the rules since they seem to be being changed as we speak. I've been working on a VP table that Stern has released recently. I'm not using anything from the Stern table with the exception of the theme as a fan "tribute".

So, what's going to happen with these tables? If any of the following tables had Youtube videos they would also be removed/blocked for copyright violations.

Tron Legacy by allsyop
Family Guy Future Pinball by GLXB
Wheel of Fortune by FrankT
Tron by Tii
Iron Man by GLXB

<3

There seems to be some confusion here, so, hopefully, this will clarify ...

• Videos that have been removed or regionally blocked due to copyright infringement will be removed from this site.
• Recreations of tables less than three years old are not to be released until three years has expired. This is nothing new, really, other than the fact that it now includes ROM-less versions, as well. I don't think Stern would care whether it used a ROM or not. It's still a recreation of a new release.
• All other fan tables are fine.

So, by these rules... the table that this thread references to, Tron Legacy, is perfectly fine for release? The only rule this particular table violates is the video being removed by Youtubes filters, right?

This particular table -
1. Video automatically removed by UMG's due to Daft Punk music Youtube filter.
2. Table is not a Stern re-creation - check
3. Fan created table - check

And the URL linked to unauthorized MODs originally. We have always had that stance on unauthorized MODs.

The table would be fine for release by these rules, yes.

Ok, that's all I was really wanting to know. The table I'm working on follows along the same line as this table does, but uses a different theme.

[lettuce]

I still find it funny that people think that playing a recreated table on a PC would REALLY effect sales of the same table in real life!!!?. Playing a table on a PC is nothing like and will be never be nothing like the experience you get from playing the real thing there is NO comparison!! Buying a pinball machine is a big investment and takes alot of thought weather or not to buy said table, and i dont think this thought process would be change in any way by weather or not there was a VP release of said table.

Infact i think this would have competely the opposite effect from what Stern think, if anything it would make you want to own the real machine even if you never thought about said machine before. This has just recently happen with me, after playing JP's BSD table, i am now going to look at a real life BSD table this coming weekend that i found on ebay near me!, this wouldnt of happened if i hadnt have played JP's recreation!!

But rules are rules i guess no matter how ridiculous they are!!

[Rawd]

Infact i think this would have competely the opposite effect from what Stern think, if anything it would make you want to own the real machine even if you never thought about said machine before. This has just recently happen with me, after playing JP's BSD table, i am now going to look at a real life BSD table this coming weekend that i found on ebay near me!, this wouldnt of happened if i hadnt have played JP's recreation!!

But rules are rules i guess no matter how ridiculous they are!!

I agree with this. I think that VP brings more people towards pinball, and a possible sale of a real machine. I know that I would like to buy 3 or 4 real machines after playing them in VP.

[Noah Fentz]

It's not a matter of what we think, but what those that build the machines think.

The object here is to cover our butts, so we can all continue to enjoy all that VP has to offer.

[Rawd]

It's not a matter of what we think, but what those that build the machines think.

The object here is to cover our butts, so we can all continue to enjoy all that VP has to offer.

I understand that. I was just stating my opinion from my experience.

Most of us have never met the heads of pinball companies, or seen anything official regarding this matter. We just go by what you tell us.

If the new tables and roms were made available... what could happen? Would they shut down your site? Would they sue the people responsible for flashing roms?

I understand that this is a fine line, and you don't want to step on any toes. Is it more of a moral issue than a legal one?

Who wrote up the 3 year agreement between VP and Stern? Is there somewhere that I could read this?

Most companies don't care about using their material, unless you are profiting from it. If they dont like it (profit or not), you will get a cease and desist from them fairly quickly. Has this ever happened in VP land?

I'm just trying to get things straight for my own personal curiosity.

I would not want to be in your position of having to police this. (especially that it comes down to WIP pics)

(As a side note, I really don't care if the newer tables will be released or not. There are plenty of tables to play in VP, and I certainly agree that it is not worth the problems that this could create for just a few new tables)

Edited by Rawd, 30 May 2011 - 04:21 PM.

[rob046]

I think VP definitely helps sell pins (especially before cabs), though if anything Stern might not be thrilled about people dumping thousands of dollars toward pinball (cabs) with none of it going to support them, yet their product (pre SAM) is being used duplicated within said cabs. If anything maybe at least allow for desktop versions of new Stern's since those versions clearly aren't trying to replace the real thing, then maybe keep them locked off of cabs.

Anyhow, I've purchased 8 real pins the past 2-3 years thanks to VP for getting me more into pinball in general & being able to test drive tables I might be looking to buy.
In fact, I've been considering buying a family guy pin, but the fact that there is NOT a VP version has been keeping me from seriously considering it. I got to play a couple games on the table in real life, but in a loud place to where I couldn't even hear the sounds & music, & while playing of course you miss a lot of what the DMD animations have to offer as well.

I enjoyed the game, but not having a real one near me, nor a VP version to really get familiar with it... I'm afraid to buy one now. A pin purchase is a huge deal to me & they aren't cheap, I don't want to get something unless I'm nearly 100% certain I want it. For all my other games I got to check everything out in VP. Even though physics & all that aren't always a match, I get to go through all the sounds/music/DMD animations & whatever else.
I feel like if I could play the game in VP then I would most likely end up buying the real thing. Stern should look at VPM recreations as a way for potential customers to "test drive" a game.

We all know that VP can't compare to the real thing, so its never a suitable replacement. I've never met somebody who wanted a real pin then changed their mind after playing VP, saying that VP was "good enough" & that they no longer want the real thing. Its usually the other way around where people like myself who didn't think would be a pin owner play some VP & want to get a taste of the real hobby.
So I don't always understand the rules either. No profit is being made off the game & its free advertising for Stern. Think of how many more ppl would be familiar with the Stern SAM games if they were in VP?

[moogster66]

I see both sides of this debate. But what it comes down to is what Stern feels is best for their business. And let's also remember it's not just about the table, but the license for the theme as well. Stern has to answer to Marvel, Dreamworks, or whoever for the fact there is a virtual version floating around with their property all over it. A lot of dollars pass hands for the right to use the images.

I have thought many times about buying a real table, and would have never even pondered it until I played VP/FP. I just don't have the space, or the dollars needed. So I stick with virtual pinball. I am a hoarder by nature when it comes to games. I know that once I bought one table, I would want more.

Edited by moogster66, 03 June 2011 - 01:27 AM.

[scott-Detroit Pinball]

Are we allowed to post a vid of the new link with new shots, its not part of any violation, so I am thinking its ok to post.... if not delete it.
I have shown the video to regular pinball people and it has gotten them more excited about buying a Stern Tron.
[URL Removed]

Delete if neccessary but I do like this authors work, definately some talent.

Scott
Detroit Pinball

[bossgp]

wow this guy makes excellent tables, why are they not available for download......

[Noah Fentz]

Are we allowed to post a vid of the new link with new shots, its not part of any violation, so I am thinking its ok to post.... if not delete it.
I have shown the video to regular pinball people and it has gotten them more excited about buying a Stern Tron.
[URL Removed]

Delete if neccessary but I do like this authors work, definately some talent.

Scott
Detroit Pinball

Still linking to unauthorized MODs.

[GSGregg]

Regarding an increase in enthusiasm for real pins, by whatever means; a pinball company will benefit from my enthusiasm much more if I buy a new machine from them than if I buy a used machine from anyone else. We may be fortunate that the 'waiting' period isn't five years---or ten.

[moogster66]

Now he says the tables wont be released due to Destruk's negative comments. I don't see any negative comments from Destruk in this topic. What gives?

I have been waiting for a year for Iron Man to be released, and was so close to getting it, now this. More F'n waiting! Swell.

EDIT: Now I see where the comment was, under the new video for the Tron cab video. Thanks Dude!

EDIT: The comment was placed on ALL of his videos.

Edited by moogster66, 07 June 2011 - 07:55 PM.

[tamoore]

Now he says the tables wont be released due to Destruk's negative comments. I don't see any negative comments from Destruk in this topic. What gives?

I have been waiting for a year for Iron Man to be released, and was so close to getting it, now this. More F'n waiting! Swell.

Destruk posted a comment saying that requesting 1000 views before releasing his tables was a scam.

The thief took exception to that, threw a hissy fit, and revoked his offer.

Good riddance. This community is too good to have a turd like that floating around in the bowl...

[wrang]

Good riddance. This community is too good to have a turd like that floating around in the bowl...

Might look into the mirror with such an attitude.

Why did Destruk need to post such an irritating question? And especially so close to 1000 views? Furthermore knowing Slamt!lt rather eccentric past? And also being more VP oriented himself I believe? Why? Why not just shut up?!

Creating tables, or any other serious creative work, takes loads of time and perseverance. All for free. No one is forcing you to play or admire them. If you don't like them, his way of working/communicating, go play somewhere else, keep the negativity to yourself. Is that so difficult? Why spoil it for others? Why?

[tamoore]

Good riddance. This community is too good to have a turd like that floating around in the bowl...

Might look into the mirror with such an attitude.

Why did Destruk need to post such an irritating question? And especially so close to 1000 views? Furthermore knowing Slamt!lt rather eccentric past? And also being more VP oriented himself I believe? Why? Why not just shut up?!

Creating tables, or any other serious creative work, takes loads of time and perseverance. All for free. No one is forcing you to play or admire them. If you don't like them, his way of working/communicating, go play somewhere else, keep the negativity to yourself. Is that so difficult? Why spoil it for others? Why?

I'll stand by my opinions. You may stand by yours. Not sure what else to tell you.

[numiah]

*sigh*

What an @sshat to pull the table the last second.
Either he has an ego that needs to be fed every once in a while or he's 12 yrs old.

If you can't handle criticism or a direct question.... pfew...

Ah well, nothing to be seen here, thread can be closed

[lettuce]

OH WHAT A SURPRISE!!!!

Since when has Slam ever EVER listened to Destruk in the past??, answer......NEVER!!! So why all of a sudden has he now!? Its all propaganda Bullshit, all to stroke his over inflamed ego, slam your tables are good agreed but pull your head in!! I have always been on your side, but now i couldnt care if you never release a table ever again!!. Oh and give GLXB his ironman table back!!!

[Popotte]

Much Ado About Nothing

[Noah Fentz]

...

Why did Destruk need to post such an irritating question? And especially so close to 1000 views? Furthermore knowing Slamt!lt rather eccentric past? And also being more VP oriented himself I believe? Why? Why not just shut up?!

Creating tables, or any other serious creative work, takes loads of time and perseverance. All for free. No one is forcing you to play or admire them. If you don't like them, his way of working/communicating, go play somewhere else, keep the negativity to yourself. Is that so difficult? Why spoil it for others? Why?

I think it's safe to say no one, and I mean NO ONE, has put time into this hobby as much as destruk. So 'why not just shut up'?

Well, at least in my opinion, it's hard to 'just shut up' when he (destruk) and many, MANY others have done a lot for this community for nothing more than the satisfaction of contributing to other peoples' happiness. To refuse to release a table until getting 1,000 hits is like extorting the community, which is simply deplorable. Would you be happy if I mandated that everyone must post stating how cool I am, before they could download here?

I think not.

[destruk]

I'm sure if you beg him for it, he'll let you have a copy. The question becomes - how much begging does he need to appease his devoted worshippers?