59 replies to this topic

[Mitchell]

such as?

Drain graphics isn't showing right with my Nvidia graphics card. Walls drop and targets drop doesn't show right with my ATI graphics card.

Windows XP is the best to run VP. Just can't install it on my Gateway. It doesn't support it.

[bladexdsl]

i don't have any of them problems?

[TuNk77]

The easiest solution would be an dual boot, install XP, then install W7 on an other hard drive

[Centaur Machine]

With Windows 7, the main thing is that software will be unable to modify files in certain directories - for example if the game keeps the game saves in "Program Files", even if the program has administrator rights. This is because it's protected. Therefore, just make sure you place VP in a non-protected directory - for example Public Files under 'Users'. ((C:\Users\Public\Visual Pinball)). My VP setup is on a different HDD; no issues there. Games should instead be using a non-protected folder for game saves and such. Really old games may not work because of this, but I've so far haven't had any problems with that, actually. It may be because I disabled UAC, I can't remember.

One other thing you can do if you really want the best performance is to right click the exe's of your games and tick the box to disable desktop composition (Aero) when the game runs. When you exit the game, it will go back. From what I understand is that - not only does Aero use a lot of RAM - especially if you use the transparency effects - it is also rumored to pre-render 3 frames. Though I haven't verified this, I'm taking the word of a professional programmer. You may not notice this lag (I don't). And with 8 GB, you probably won't need the RAM free'd up. Note, you can even disable the balloon tips on an individual basis, just click the wrench icon on the balloon tip. (So it won't become annoying when games run "the theme has been switched to basic").

But anyway, the main thing I've noticed with 8GB of RAM (over 4GB) is that the page file (on your HDD) usually won't need to be accessed because it just uses RAM instead. It's really nice, because RAM doesn't make any noise, of course. I was always annoyed by the constant accessing of the HDD. Less 'wear and tear' too!

NOTE: Don't disable Page file unless you have like 16GB of RAM, and you still may want a small page file (about 300MB) for memory dump write to disk if your computer 'Blue Screens'.


For what it's worth, I would personally use XP x32 for a dedicated cab that was not connected to the internet. XP is just a much lighter OS, it's 10 years old. But no question that Win 7 is more secure, and better for newer games, with DX 10 and 11.

"According to the latest study by USA Today and Avantgarde, it takes less than 4 minutes for an unpatched Windows XP SP1 system to become part of a botnet.

http://it.slashdot.o...in-Four-Minutes

Edited by Centaur Machine, 21 June 2011 - 03:23 AM.

[chas]

i could be wrong.
from what i heard from PC wizards win7 has lots of updates and support.
XP does not.

Edited by chas, 21 June 2011 - 05:47 AM.

[Darkfall]

Personally, my biggest problem with Windows 7 x64 has been HyperPin. It's not HyperPin's fault, though, I don't believe. HyperPin is written in Flash, then run through one of the many Flash compilers that pops out an executable so you can distribute your Flash program easily while hiding your code from prying eyes. I suspect the compiler being used is the problem. It seems to become unhappy on some Windows 7 x64 machines, resulting in HyperPin running like a slug - long delays loading and exiting tables, slow table browsing, etc.

I did a few experiments to see if I could nail down what was going on. I took my install and threw it on my laptop, which has Windows 7 x64, and it ran fantastically. The laptop, however, has an Intel i7 processor, whereas my cab computer has an AMD Phenom X4. I'm starting to wonder if it's something to do with the code that comes out of the Flash compiler not liking AMD processors on Windows 7 x64.

I also took the hard drive out of my cab, put in a fresh drive and install Windows XP, then copied all of my HyperPin and VP stuff to it, and HyperPin runs properly (though several of the tables run significantly slower than on Windows 7, which surprised me).

I'm thinking I'll build up an i7 based system for the cab, and see if things behave. If they do, I'm thinking it's the combination of the compiler being used, AMD processors, and Windows 7 x64 together.

Don't get me wrong - I love AMD. I use and sell a ton of them, most of them running Windows 7 now - but when you mix in HyperPin, things start to get weird.

Does anyone else have any experience with Windows 7 x64, AMD, and HyperPin running well? If so, that blows my theory.

[themaniacboy]

With Windows 7, the main thing is that software will be unable to modify files in certain directories - for example if the game keeps the game saves in "Program Files", even if the program has administrator rights. This is because it's protected. Therefore, just make sure you place VP in a non-protected directory - for example Public Files under 'Users'. ((C:\Users\Public\Visual Pinball)). My VP setup is on a different HDD; no issues there. Games should instead be using a non-protected folder for game saves and such. Really old games may not work because of this, but I've so far haven't had any problems with that, actually. It may be because I disabled UAC, I can't remember.

One other thing you can do if you really want the best performance is to right click the exe's of your games and tick the box to disable desktop composition (Aero) when the game runs. When you exit the game, it will go back. From what I understand is that - not only does Aero use a lot of RAM - especially if you use the transparency effects - it is also rumored to pre-render 3 frames. Though I haven't verified this, I'm taking the word of a professional programmer. You may not notice this lag (I don't). And with 8 GB, you probably won't need the RAM free'd up. Note, you can even disable the balloon tips on an individual basis, just click the wrench icon on the balloon tip. (So it won't become annoying when games run "the theme has been switched to basic").

But anyway, the main thing I've noticed with 8GB of RAM (over 4GB) is that the page file (on your HDD) usually won't need to be accessed because it just uses RAM instead. It's really nice, because RAM doesn't make any noise, of course. I was always annoyed by the constant accessing of the HDD. Less 'wear and tear' too!

NOTE: Don't disable Page file unless you have like 16GB of RAM, and you still may want a small page file (about 300MB) for memory dump write to disk if your computer 'Blue Screens'.


For what it's worth, I would personally use XP x32 for a dedicated cab that was not connected to the internet. XP is just a much lighter OS, it's 10 years old. But no question that Win 7 is more secure, and better for newer games, with DX 10 and 11.

"According to the latest study by USA Today and Avantgarde, it takes less than 4 minutes for an unpatched Windows XP SP1 system to become part of a botnet.

http://it.slashdot.o...in-Four-Minutes

I can confirm that you are wrong about the save games part, i have stored save games on Program files and it doesn't give me any problems.
You do need to run it as an administrator though.

[rob046]

Yeah I never have any issues relating to administrative rights or installing to program files. I simply disable all the UAC crap anyhow, as should everybody who is on vista or win7, unless you really need it. Which most people wouldn't. I think some people don't even know that it can be easily disabled.
If you keep UAC enabled then you might need to set things to run as administrator.
Either way, it isn't like this is an issue that you can't easily get around.

[Centaur Machine]

I can confirm that you are wrong about the save games part, i have stored save games on Program files and it doesn't give me any problems.
You do need to run it as an administrator though.

I just remember that I was playing the US version of Resident Evil 4 (latest patch), and the game saves would seem to work, but when I launched the game again, they weren't there.

I don't know, it happened when I first started using Win 7, so I don't remember clearly. I thought that research had led me to find out that - after they are installed - games cannot write to Program Files without elevated privileges (admin confirm).

EDIT: Just confirming here. It sounds like it's definitely a UAC problem:

http://superuser.com...-in-this-folder

http://www.google.co...=...920&bih=945

Maybe the problem was patched. I remember having some problems with UAC that seemed to get better with time. Like, when Win7 first came out, I had to admin confirm for Winamp every time it ran, despite having checked the tab "always run as admin".

So there are a few problems with older games that sometimes need a workaround, but I do prefer Windows 7 overall. For example, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (U.S. v2.0), you have to let it install to the 'default' directory or the game won't load.


As for disabling UAC, I'm not really going to get into debate about it because there are a lot of smart people that do things different than I do. But for me personally - because of my other security software - UAC is redundant... and annoying because unlike other options it doesn't remember your trust, and you can't set up individual rights (for example internet access for the program).

Edited by Centaur Machine, 22 June 2011 - 08:01 PM.

[PDAisAok]

So the general consensus would be XP or Win 7 x64? I've ready through this entire thread hoping to come out with a clear answer and it seems to be pretty neutral. Plusses and minuses for both operating systems.

[Centaur Machine]

Plusses and minuses for both operating systems.

In a nutshell.

If you have specifics, it makes it easier to choose. It also depends a great deal on the hardware you plan to use.

I keep XP on my older system. It's a store bought system with CeleronD processor and onboard video. It's really slow and its video capabilities are horrid. But it's still quite useful for all kinds of tasks. When I built my new system, I wanted to aim for the best performance for the money; bang for the buck. I built an i5-750 with 4GB of RAM and a GTX 460. It's a 64 bit CPU, and 64 bit support is vastly improved on Win 7 versus XP. You'll have the ability to use more RAM. You'll have DX10 and 11. You'll have better multitasking and better multi-video card support. And with 64 bit, you can run 64 bit and 32 bit applications (but not really old 16 bit applications, perhaps unless they are run in an emulator). You'll even have 'XP mode' in some versions of Win7, although the usefulness is debatable since it is emulated, which lowers it's performance drastically. I have tried to use it for some obscure things (like hardware that wasn't compatible with 7) but I couldn't get them to work and had to upgrade some hardware for windows 7.

Basically, if your computer is older, you should stick with XP, IMO. Some hardware won't have drivers that work with Windows 7. So it's good to have a 2nd computer with XP to fall back on. My printer and my video camera software won't work on Windows 7, for example. And I had to abandon my wireless adapter for a different one. So you may incur hidden costs upgrading.

In the end, as far as software compatibility, there aren't too many programs that won't work on both. But, it's something you should research before taking the plunge. Personally, I hate surprises when it comes to my computer not working as expected. Having a bit of cash would be good. Like I said, there may be some things that need to be upgraded that you had planned on re-using.

But it's the same thing with hardware too. You might buy a video card and then your power supply is insufficient. You buy a 1080p widescreen monitor and now your video card is insufficient.

If you have the money, I'd say "Too much power is just enough." - Carol Shelby was talking about cars, but it's fitting here.

Hope that helps

Edited by Centaur Machine, 24 June 2011 - 05:28 AM.

[Joe]

So the general consensus would be XP or Win 7 x64? I've ready through this entire thread hoping to come out with a clear answer and it seems to be pretty neutral. Plusses and minuses for both operating systems.

for a new system you are better off with Windows 7

[Jlr]

Hello.

I have not played any tables in a while,i use Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit,it seems to work fine for some people,i think i will give it a try,is it better to use VP8 or VP9 ?

Edited by Jlr, 09 July 2011 - 03:27 AM.

[Centaur Machine]

Hello.

I have not played any tables in a while,i use Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit,it seems to work fine for some people,i think i will give it a try,is it better to use VP8 or VP9 ?

It doesn't matter as far as compatibility with Windows.

[PainkillerAlice]

I have Windows 7 64 bit and I have no problems running either VP 8 or VP 9. It probably wouldn't hurt to say as long as you have a GOOD CPU you shouldn't run into any problems.

[Jlr]

Thanks for the replies,i have a good CPU,a quad core 3.6Ghz .

Have a nice summer.

[Bob5453]

JLR, what graphics card are you running? VP9 has a lot more going for it than VP8 does, it requires a decent 1 GB graphics card to run some of the newer tables.

[PainkillerAlice]

Thanks for the replies,i have a good CPU,a quad core 3.6Ghz .

Have a nice summer.

I'm jealous! I have a measly 3.4 GHZ quad core.

[Jlr]

JLR, what graphics card are you running? VP9 has a lot more going for it than VP8 does, it requires a decent 1 GB graphics card to run some of the newer tables.

Hello Bob.

Thank you for pointing that out to me,i have a NVidia GTX 280 1Gb so it should be fine,i will give it a try a bit later.

Have a nice summer,Bob and thank you again,Practicedummy.

[mystereo]

.

Edited by mystereo, 13 February 2014 - 05:24 AM.