666 replies to this topic

[arngrim]

We need directx9 for that i guess

[unclewilly]

Kind of laTe on this question.
It's about ball reflection.

Does ball reflection only work on the main Playfield?
Or if you have a raised Playfield made from a wall will the ball reflection still show.

I could test but won't be home for another 12 hours

[fuzzel]

That won't work for now. The reflection only works if the ball is on the playfield of height 0

[zany]

Anyone else have this issue in rev886?
Not all tables though.

Attached Files

•  wc.jpg   237.25KB   12 downloads

[Pinball999]

Got it yesterday as well after updating to the latest rev.

[imagamejunky]

I have the black flippers with 886 also

[fuzzel]

Any ideas with what revision that started?

[fuzzel]

Nevermind, found the bug and will be fixed with 889

[Slydog43]

great news, as I thought it was my nvidia settings with antialias and such.  Thanks as always fuzzel and all of the VP team

[fuzzel]

Please give rev 896 a spin...The dynamic flippers are back again but this time the rendering should be as fast as possible. And as a neat side effect it will solve the issue with the overlapping ball at the flipper arm on intel based graphic cards.

[Slydog43]

I just tried latest version and turned on vertical sync and  flippers don't tear at all now.  Tables play very smooth.  What is the most demanding FS table out there now to test speed with?

[martinoil]

I just tried latest version and turned on vertical sync and  flippers don't tear at all now.  Tables play very smooth.  What is the most demanding FS table out there now to test speed with?

CV Platinum.Is the most demanding for me.

[unclewilly]

I could send you the monster bash update

[LoadedWeapon]

I could send you the monster bash update

Send it! lol 

 

I still think checkpoint HD is the most demanding table made...

Edited by LoadedWeapon, 25 January 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[Slydog43]

I used to think checkpoint was most demanding, but after the update it plays much better.  I think I will redownload the older checkpoint to play with.  UW, how far off is MB?  maybe for superbowl party?  I love hanging around sat afternoon ready posts and playing with cab.  thanks to all who make this hobby what it is

 

no flippers appear with 896 and circus voltaire 1.3 platinum.

Edited by Slydog43, 25 January 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[unclewilly]

Hopefully the platinum beastly version will be ready this week.

[fuzzel]

I used to think checkpoint was most demanding, but after the update it plays much better.  I think I will redownload the older checkpoint to play with.  UW, how far off is MB?  maybe for superbowl party?  I love hanging around sat afternoon ready posts and playing with cab.  thanks to all who make this hobby what it is

 

no flippers appear with 896 and circus voltaire 1.3 platinum.

Yep that's a known issue but I haven't found the reason for it yet. As a workaround switch to the night mod and the flippers are visible.

[jimmyfingers]

The CV 1.3 platinum flipper issue is becuase the other sets of flippers have ".visible" cleared in the editor / on the object which seems to effect things if the table's launched with those fields cleared.  The table already has logic to set all flippers to .visible=0 then the right ones for the mode chosen so enabling the .visible on the flippers that don't have it in the editor fixes the issue without affecting the rest of the logic / options.  Also, other graphical glitches will occur with these new flippers as they now have to be carefully ordered like other dynamic objects.

 

However, there will be problems as any table that only disabled the .visible flipper setting previously will now no longer disable enough aspects of the flippers as since rev 869 where the .visible and .enable were separated.  This will result in more than one flipper interacting with the ball (even though you can't see it) and it will change the physics on the table for shots entirely (makes them stronger and the lateral shots become unmakable).  I've witnessed this and just recently had to rewrite some routines to check for the revision number and handle the hiding / showing of flippers differently based on it.  But this physics element is not specific to the latest flipper rendering changes and predates them as it is caused solely by the splitting out of the older .visible attribute.

 

@fuzzel - the performance is still being hit reasonably on the couple test tables I've tried.  The one we're working on together goes from about 415 with the ball in the plunger lane to about 365 between revs 893 and rev 896 respectively.  It's actually less of a drop in FPS using the version you made with the 3d primitive meshes than it is to use the same version without them but on this latest build.  Another table I'm working on goes from 700 FPS to 575 between the same versions.  This is all without AA and using just hardware rendering which still gives me the best performance on all other tables (flipper issues aside).

 

So, we're getting about a 14 % drop in the first case and an 18 % drop in the second.  Even outside of FPS, I also worry about the performance that can be impacted and not always evident by just FPS, like under heavy lighting events, with using forced AA (or the 3D stereo options built-in to VP), multi-ball, or other demanding sequences where the ball can and does get choppier with the more events occurring / being drawn in real-time.

 

I take it you're hoping for better news than this but while we're getting 3D primitive meshes of flippers performing considerably better than these new ones, I don't see the point with using these / going this direction and will say again I think that this is best reserved for another branch than just getting one more thing that's not pre-rendered when ultimately that's not going to matter for VP 9x as not everything's going to be converted anyway.  However, I do know this is just testing (the Beta thread after all) and this was added back in with the bug fixes that were caught in hopes that it would be the same performance - knowing on the next revision it can be yanked back out like before if it doesn't prove to work without problems / well enough.  If it can be done without any performance impact than I say great, but as far as the above, unless that's the case can we keep the flippers the same / consistent and save the new dynamic rendering for the VP10 branch?  With the 3D primitive mesh flippers you showed me and how they had so little performance hit plus looked amazing, it just doesn't make sense to me to be changing the default flippers any further than what was needed to get the visible and collidable (enabled) separated.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 26 January 2014 - 12:09 AM.

[toxie]

One reason for including these now is that this fixes a longstanding rendering issue with intel gfx chips (ball rendered on top of the flippers).

And as this release might be the last VP9.X.X release i guess its valid to get it to run flawlessly on as many setups as possible, as the new release cycle might be 'useless' on a lot of systems for a longer time period.

 

As for the concerns that the impact will be highest in demanding situations: That's actually not true, as the ratio will obviously decrease even further, so the smaller the FPS, the smaller the impact of the rendering of these elements will be (i would guess from your numbers that then the impact will be in the <5% range).

Also on our machines the performance decrease was barely measurable, so thats also pretty weird, which GFX card do you have in your machine?

[toxie]

rev 898 fixes the flipper issues with CV..