51 replies to this topic

[htamas]

btw- How do i turn off the DMD in this one? I tried adding the .Hidden = 1 in the table init, didn't work...

 

The .Hidden attribute is already there in the script - go to line 63 and set it to 1.

 

By the way, the table works great with the previous directB2S backglass from Herweh  

Edited by htamas, 03 February 2013 - 01:09 AM.

[maceman]

Jimmy,

How do i increase flipper strength again? I mean with your physics, what paramater(s) do i change so that i can make the left ramp easier. I am having trouble.

Cheers,

Maceman

[pinball buzz]

Thanks Jimmy - This table wasn`t one that I was hooked on - thats all changed now !

 

Now getting no stutter thanks for the UVP, and love the new alpha flashers.

Thanks for all your work, and thanks for adding the sub routine selection menu - now all I want to try is the new B2S Backglass !!

 

Cheers Pinball Buzz

[thewool]

Jimmy,

How do i increase flipper strength again? I mean with your physics, what paramater(s) do i change so that i can make the left ramp easier. I am having trouble.

Cheers,

Maceman

 

Have you tried just adjusting the strength? Remember there are two sets of left and right flippers on/off for the GI ligting effect, be sure to adjust both.

[maceman]

@htamas - thanx man.. i figure it out. I had missed the toggle in the first couple lines. I just did the one without sertting the UVP properly Getting old!

 

@ thewool- yeah, it is so strange..it seems like nothing really makes an effect. X-Files however is a different story and works amazing!. ??

Edited by maceman, 04 February 2013 - 01:28 AM.

[jimmyfingers]

Can only make a quick response right now and will have a more detailed one tomorrow regarding other posts / questions / comments. I'll leave the discussion about the skill shot until then but wanted to quickly respond to Maceman and the flipper settings aspect. 

 

For starters and what will be a re-occurring theme here, the flippers are very close to how they were on the real machine I was able to work with / study and have been quite painstakenly set-up to represent as truely as possible that playing experience.  The ramp shot is makable and has been made about as difficult and angle sensitive (blended with the strength of the flippers) as I was experiencing playing the real one plus the speed that the ball would generally travel around the ramp and also for which it would fail to make it up was closely matched.  So, I do suggest you try and work with these settings I arrived at in order to keep a truer represenation (the one that this was modelled after and this one play extremely similar). 

 

However, if you really feel you must change it, because of the flipper dampening routine, increasing flipper object settings will not really have much effect on speed of the ball (decreasing still would). So, find the flipper dampening routine at the bottom of the script and change the variable "Level" from 8 to 7 or even 6.  But you'll likely need to up the "XFactor" value from 2.5 to 2.75 or 3 to compensate for the loss in lateral straightening that would have been happening with a higher overall dampening setting.

 

The X-Files table is not my release and comparisons cannot be drawn from it and this one for several reasons, flippers being one of them.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 04 February 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[htamas]

Actually, regarding the skill shot: I played the table more today and it turns out that I was probably wrong. I could hit the 100,000 shot several times. So I don't know what was going on yesterday because it behaved like I described, but today for some reason it seemed to work fine. It's still hard to make it, but that's what a "skill shot" is supposed to be be like

[maceman]

However, if you really feel you must change it, because of the flipper dampening routine....

 

 

This is almost a carbon copy of your response last time i asked in another thread. I just can't remember where that was, and is why i ask again.

 

Sometimes i wonder if you get unnecessarily annoyed at the prospect that someone could actually have a problem with your settings. Just by your candor, but i may be wrong Jimmy, and continue to wave the peace flag.

Please remember i always prefaced my comments with the fact that perhaps it is my system. I say this to be nice to be honest because I wouldn't want to dare insult anyone... but i admit, i am a bit annoyed right now.

 

The fact of the matter is i have played your table at least 40 to 50 timers now. I have not made the left ramp once. End of story.  I will try to increase the setings. I can see there is a dampening effect going on now that you have brought that to our attention...and it was like i had mentioned in my post above, without even knowing that. I try to tell the truth. The physics play phenominal and i have said that endlessly, but your flippers do not work fo me.

Cheers,

Maceman

[jimmyfingers]

Before anything further, I want to draw attention to UW and that it is his initial textures and work on this table graphically that are the majority of the reason it looks as good as it does.  I only added some alpha flashers / halos, updated / drew the plastic edges and platform images with alpha transparencies, did some minor flipper aesthetic work, and demonstrated in the screen shot how good a well put together table can look with AA enabled / working.  This is a similar feeling and sentiment I had with the Sorcerer release when I wanted to make sure that credit for how good it looked went to those for which it was due - in that case Noah and UncleReamus.  On any MODs based on JP's tables, the same holds true.

 

As far as the ramp / cone skill shot, it is supposed to be pretty difficult and in the real life testing I did, quite often would roll over and still have too much speed to drop in on the roll back down.  The holes on the ramp are slightly different size / shape and the 100k is a smaller round one vs. somewhat rectangular / elongated shape for the first (5k) hole and still even slightly smaller than the top 20k.  Here is a picture of the cone:

 

 PB Ramp.png   153.34KB   31 downloads

 

 

It is maybe a hair still too difficult and a small setting change of a unit or two in velocity in the speed sensing routine might help make it ideal.  There is a randomness portion of the speed calculation which maybe would be better to lower down to just a "1" and is likely somewhat related to why htamas felt some differences from one time to another.   Thank you htamas for your follow-up post and correction about how you now feel about the skill shot but also for the extra detail on how it appeared to you at different times which assisted in the thought process and assessment of potential changes from my end.

 

For other comments or questions about whether the "real" table would act a certain way, it seems that a lot of people didn't / don't read the release notes as I mention in the first point that I worked extensively with a real machine when making this MOD. I know my release notes can be verbose and are typically long for my table releases, but, on top of wanting to explain what script and table customizations have been made, it is the start of the support topic and details nuances and items for people to consider regarding the table and even more so when looking for support / posting.

 

As far as your last post Maceman, I wasn't annoyed at the time I responded to you but to say I am now would be an understatement.   The whole way that things have gone after I released this table up to an including your last post is something that I am going to have to follow-up with in another post of its own.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 06 February 2013 - 07:22 PM.

[hmueck]

The fact of the matter is i have played your table at least 40 to 50 timers now. I have not made the left ramp once.

 

I shot the left ramp several times by cradling the ball on the right flipper, letting it roll down near to the very end and shooting it. Not sure about the "left ramp is up" thing though. It seems to hit something under it and i'm not sure if it registers something, because the anoying sound seems to continue. Maybe for a second chance to hit under the ramp? Don't know how it's supposed to work... and i hit under the ramp only three times.

In the last game i opened pinbot and deposited the ball in the right kicker. But the balls to the left kicker didn't stuck. I think i hit it two times quiet nicely, but the ball came back out. A third time it bounced in very hard. Is the kicker a small fit with walls left and right to bounce the ball back? Checked the editor: with the sw25deflectors1&2 and Wall766 it seems to be a very tight fit...

About the skill shot: pulling the plunger until it nearly passes the last yellow marking works quite often for me.

[kruge99]

Ummm, it's a skill shot, it's supposed to take skill and some bits of luck to make.  If you can make the skillshot 100% of the time in a Visual Pinball recreation then it no longer functions as it properly should and I would consider this as needing to be fixed.

[maceman]

Please Jimmy,

There will be no need to respond further. I asked a simple question, and got a lecture.

I mentioned several times that i was raising the peace flag, but I also know with some people it is impossible to make peace. I tried and now will move on. I have no problem reading realese notes nor adjusting a table, but attitude i can do without, so no thanx!!

If i have to work this hard to play a table, i'd rather just load another version.

Thanx for your effort anyways, and to everyone else, i hope their experience with you is better.

 

@hmueck- Super happy you made it up the ramp. Maybe trophies should be given to those who make it up Cheers man!!

 

Cheers,

Maceman

Edited by maceman, 06 February 2013 - 09:14 PM.

[Aaron James]

I don't like to see bickering between VIP's on this forum. We all have a love for pinball, and we are all human, everyone has different tastes. That's the beauty of VP, just change/edit what you want. For example, I love some of jimmyfingers mods, but some I prefer the original. It's funny, we all think a certain table should play a certain way based on how we remember it, usually back in the day. Lol. Thank god we have so many differently talented people on this site/forum. I'm forever endebted.

[htamas]

I have no problem with making the left ramp either. Do I get a trophy too?

As hmueck mentioned, the logic how the target functions under the ramp isn't exactly clear to me. Sometimes when the sound was on and I shot the ball under the ramp it should have registered a hit and most of the time it did, but sometimes it didn't. Maybe the hit wasn't hard enough, although it seemed to be the same like other times when it registered.

 

Ummm, it's a skill shot, it's supposed to take skill and some bits of luck to make.  If you can make the skillshot 100% of the time in a Visual Pinball recreation then it no longer functions as it properly should and I would consider this as needing to be fixed.

 

Nobody said the skill shot should be easy to make 100% of the time.

I just expressed my feeling that in some cases, it appeared to me that on a real machine, managing a shot that passes the target hole on that ramp ever so slightly and then rolls back should drop into the hole. This didn't happen several times when I first played the table but it seemed to be more consistent for the second time. If jimmyfingers feels there is a way or need to adjust the behaviour, great. If not, then it's still fine as the table plays really well. Thanks to all involved parties.

Edited by htamas, 06 February 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

The fact of the matter is i have played your table at least 40 to 50 timers now. I have not made the left ramp once.

 

I shot the left ramp several times by cradling the ball on the right flipper, letting it roll down near to the very end and shooting it. Not sure about the "left ramp is up" thing though. It seems to hit something under it and i'm not sure if it registers something, because the anoying sound seems to continue. Maybe for a second chance to hit under the ramp? Don't know how it's supposed to work... and i hit under the ramp only three times.

In the last game i opened pinbot and deposited the ball in the right kicker. But the balls to the left kicker didn't stuck. I think i hit it two times quiet nicely, but the ball came back out. A third time it bounced in very hard. Is the kicker a small fit with walls left and right to bounce the ball back? Checked the editor: with the sw25deflectors1&2 and Wall766 it seems to be a very tight fit...

About the skill shot: pulling the plunger until it nearly passes the last yellow marking works quite often for me.

Yah, those deflectors were just put in to mix up the simplicity of making the shot as the real table seemed to not have a lot drop in too.  But, it's a pretty lose technique so just delete those deflectors if you want, it will not affect the table or scripting

[jimmyfingers]

However, if you really feel you must change it, because of the flipper dampening routine....

 

 

This is almost a carbon copy of your response last time i asked in another thread. I just can't remember where that was, and is why i ask again.

 

Sometimes i wonder if you get unnecessarily annoyed at the prospect that someone could actually have a problem with your settings. Just by your candor, but i may be wrong Jimmy, and continue to wave the peace flag.

Please remember i always prefaced my comments with the fact that perhaps it is my system. I say this to be nice to be honest because I wouldn't want to dare insult anyone... but i admit, i am a bit annoyed right now.

 

The fact of the matter is i have played your table at least 40 to 50 timers now. I have not made the left ramp once. End of story.  I will try to increase the setings. I can see there is a dampening effect going on now that you have brought that to our attention...and it was like i had mentioned in my post above, without even knowing that. I try to tell the truth. The physics play phenominal and i have said that endlessly, but your flippers do not work fo me.

Cheers,

Maceman

@Maceman - I'm pretty much ignoring your last post from today as it was completely undeserved and inflaming, I'm simply going to finish my response to this one above from Sunday.

 

There are a number of reasons why I stress the settings of my BMPR MODs as these are NOT standard tables when they have this system active (having a continuously running background sub-routine, multi-vector, ball velocity manipulating process) and as such have a considerably different relationship than "regular" ones do with the global table / physics settings.  Even just minimal changes may send the interaction of the ball and the objects on the table out of balance or detrimentally alter the "blend", that I have commonly referred to, that needs to take place when merging this manual / scripted physics approach with the long standing available table physics options (moderate changes would likely break other areas of game play or prevent certain shots from being possible).   Further, because of and with the options and tuning potential that the BMPR opens up, I spend weeks to months adjusting and assessing the tables, not to MY personal preferences or game speed choice, but to what appears to be as close as currently possible to the real life and video examples of the tables I analyze and release as VP MODs.   Lastly, because of some of the ways the tables can then play after this BMPR / physics tuning, they will feel different (more so initially), which is really part of the goal, and should arguably be somewhat more difficult, even random, which all should be an improvement as it seems generally observed that a typical VP table plays easier and results in higher scores than it's real life counterpart.  I implore people to give a BMPR table's settings - as they stand from the download - a reasonable chance and strongly recommend they are left as is because of these aspects above. 

 

With what little time I had on Sunday night, I chose to respond to your flipper related post(s), not out of annoyance or any other negatively rooted motive, but because after catching up on all the posts, I felt your general topic was the most important and necessary because of how you, and pretty much anyone else, would be quite stuck without knowing about and how to change this custom flipper dampening routine, leaving physical flipper strength / speed increases largely ineffective.  This element was actually in the release notes, if only as a general mention to at least provide some awareness for people and maybe even to search for within the scripting (it's internally documented in the script). Again and unfortunately, as stated in my previous post, the release notes seem to be something that most people do not go through.  But, regardless, when I read through and saw that you were trying to adjust and getting no change, I felt an urgency and priority to at least let you know and your topic was also seemingly the best "bang for the buck" to help someone if I only had time to assess and respond to one. 

 

One of the things that disappoints me about your response on Sunday night and your purported annoyance with me, is that you seem to skim over and conveniently forego the fact that, out of all people and topics, I picked yours to be the one and only I spent my limited time on to provide you with useful information to get you past your impasse.   You would not or could not have known that I spent all day driving my dad out of town to see his brother in a hospital - possibly for the last time.  You would not or could not have known that before I fed myself or did any chores once I got home, that I commenced assessing and responding to your questions.  I spent a day that had essentially nothing in it for my sake and missed all Super Bowl events and fun, to come home to and squeeze out 30-40 minutes of re-verifying left ramp and skill shots that were already not an issue, then get what I could posted to help you about flipper dampener settings and values.  You would not have known these things but it is clearly stated in my post that I could only make a quick response and that response was one trying to help you.  But not only was there a total absence of thanks but you turn around and state that you're a little annoyed and now with your last post - WTF.

 

When I assess my post on Sunday and your quote of me, I'll admit my wording "if you really feel you must change it" maybe rings a little poorly to my own ears and sounds possibly a bit condescending or elitist.  A better choice of words may simply have been for me to say "if you think it's necessary". However, the reason I was still trying to stress not changing the settings comes mostly from what I've already stated above and to the fact that the table was tested ad nauseam, in all regards, including much time on the left ramp and works perfectly fine and realistically on a normal / correctly functioning system (I tested it on 3 different computers / cabinets combined with 2 different OSes).  I'm stressing it again in my response to you because, well, it's fair to do, when ultimately it doesn't actually have to be changed if things were working properly on your end - the shot is completely makeable as the table stands from the download, but, as explained, intentionally difficult.  Even still, before responding to your flipper concerns / questions, to be diligent I spent an additional 30-40 minutes re-verifying this along with also re-assessing the skill shot difficulty.    A little sales promotion / push in the same post before proceeding to give you exactly the information you needed to alter things seems reasonable considering the effort I put into this table and the potential for others to misconstrue changes that are needed vs. changes only you need to make.  

 

Only in your last post did you indicate some type of quantitative / deterministic description for why you are certain it isn't working for you and if you can't make the shot in 50 or 60 games then something is most definitely wrong on your end.   As much as you may have tried to add some softness and peaceful analogies in that post, the fact of the matter is you wind up simply stating that you're annoyed and take on a bit of a tone and attitude of your own with your "End of Story" comment.  It's obviously not the end of the story or maybe at most only on your end but those findings and results are yours and yours alone.  Although you do state that you could be wrong that I was annoyed, and you were as I wasn't THEN, don't state you "wave the peace flag" and then follow it and all preceding comments up with "I'm a bit annoyed right now", it pretty much negates the former and might just make anyone that that's directed to even more angry than if you had just plain said your annoyed.  Sugar coating a piece of shit isn't going to cover up the taste of shit enough.   

 

"This is almost a carbon copy of your response last time i asked in another thread. I just can't remember where that was, and is why i ask again. Sometimes i wonder if you get unnecessarily annoyed at the prospect that someone could actually have a problem with your settings"- the depth of why this is so infuriating to follow.  I looked into this, which in this case - to locate at least the topic / table - took very little time actually and all of about 30 seconds in a search.  Maceman, being that it was a topic you asked a question in / responded to, you could have just clicked on your profile tab on the upper top right, chose "My Content" and looked for a forum topic that had to do with one of my BMPR MOD releases - likely a recent one.  Or alternatively, being that you said it was a thread about a release of mine, than just search on "BMPR" and look through the FS support topics for yours and / or my posts.  I see from the home page of this forum that you have started a topic about search tips and admit you're not very good with them. However, and I state this with as much vigor as I can relay without having a freakin' aneurism or becoming worse than I've ever let myself sound here on this forum, if you are going to take a position, infer my annoyance with responding to settings discussions and cite this previous conversation, you better remember where that related thread is or spend the time finding and reviewing it before you respond.  You owe that to me or anyone in a similar situation. It is totally irresponsible to, as loosely as you formed your recollection with as lazy a follow-up by simply "ask(ing) again", allow yourself to believe in and comment on a pattern that is not at all substantiated had you actually done your due diligence and reviewed the previous conversation / posts.

 

I've described in other topics / table releases maybe some slight annoyance but more arguably just some more pleading - regarding conclusions, opinions, and references to the BMPR and my custom flipper routines but that's because they've been based on OTHER people's releases / attempt to implement them in their tables.  I've been frank with Teppotee about some of his recent releases with my BMPR routine included, suggested settings closer to what may be more suitable for the tables, and in good spirits spent some time and effort assisting him.   As a gesture for him, being that it's his favourite table, I've put about 40 hours into Tommy (physics and lighting) but also somewhat with hopes he will study the changes / routines / methods and be able to utilize them better if he continues to work on BMPR releases.  There's too much to fully get into on this here but some releases with BMPR in the name haven't even had it actually active (the timer was not enabled) which I think reasonably mandates some need and validates my appeal for reserved judgement.  

 

During my 30 seconds to find the thread you allude to in your previous post, I thought about and recalled someone posting about slope settings and of the detailed responses that followed but truly did not recall that exchange being with you (had it somewhat in my mind as being with The Loafer - incorrect obviously as discovered now).  It appears to be the Sorcerer BMPR FS thread and upon re-reading this thread, it has nothing to do with flipper settings but merely a mention in your first post of dropping the flippers down a "notch" (whatever setting or adjustment that refers to).  What was discussed was slope settings and I was not annoyed at all in that thread, which I think will be evident to anyone who reads it.  I provided a detailed, informative, and friendly response regarding how best to change the speed of the table without using large slope settings changes, that I had still temporarily set-up the table with your posted settings and compared to the PAPA video again to find your settings pulling the ball down much too hard, and described for you and everyone's benefit what areas and parameters are best if you want to increase the game speed accordingly for a BMPR enabled table.  I even proceeded to answer other questions from you regarding whether a table could be playing differently on your system then on others, gave a background story on how that happened to me (calibration), suggestions for testing it, and even a link to a test table that produces statistics / speed readings as the ball roles over triggers for a quantitative analysis and more so still even with a single machine comparison method for verifying your results using the statistics from the test table in the video.

 

 Once I reviewed all this I started to get pretty angry because of seeing the time and effort I spent to help you and how you've neglected to even look back at this post yet somewhat refer to it and me being annoyed in your supposition and now with your most recent post my "attitude".  Then, I saw that you were the very first person to post in the table release topic and in this very first post you already had posted new table slope settings.  Settings, that were 50% and 25% greater than how I had released the table.  Now, I wasn't angry back then and I can recall my feelings after reading your post and they were only of performing, once again, some assessment and getting a quick response out to explain how best to change speed on a BMPR table for you and others to consider before following / amending the table with what you had posted.  I think some people go through the support topic and apply some of the quick suggestions, missed items / small bug fixes, or changes while potentially waiting for an update to come out - I typically do at least.  Then I saw that you posted these alternate slope settings 17 minutes after my table was released.  It was something I had not thought about before, but then, even right now, with this all stemming from your last few comments to me from this Pinbot release and how I had tried to help you in this BMPR Sorcerer thread in numerous ways and for different issues, combined with the realization that you posted alternate slope settings merely 17 minutes after my table was released, I was incensed.

 

I want to stop here, step back and ask you to think about this for a moment if you're actually reading this Maceman and anybody else whose made it this far.    A table that is largely a custom physics / physics processing MOD, that took someone weeks / months of their free time to create, gets the chance to exist only 17 minutes before someone posts their preferred slope settings.  How absurd, short sighted, and inconsiderate is that? It's an insult to any author who releases any table but there seems to be something even more wrong to do so on a table that was released mainly for the physics MOD and system installed using an augmented / different way of processing and integrating with standard table adjustments.  This general concept has somewhat been discussed before with people recommending new flipper settings to author's tables in their posts and that that could quite reasonably be considered rude or stepping on toes - I know totally how that could feel now from this side even if it is happening in a retroactive sort of way.  Maybe people even think I do that except it's entirely different to do with both, the author's permission (even encouragement) as I always acquire first for a MOD, and also because of the fact that the entire processing of the table physics is a different beast with new possibilities as a result of adding the BMPR. 

 

The 50% and 25% increase to slope max and min posting you made Maceman would have completely and utterly altered the game play experience and undermined EVERYTHING on that table that I had worked so hard to create. You are complimentary of the table and the work in your post and that part wasn't missed by me then or now but posting the different slope settings and the timing of it is an item on its own.  To post those settings 17 minutes after a table is released is quite simply shitty and again, if nothing else, irresponsible.  It was only later on in the posts that you start discussing that you might have a problem with your rig that makes it need higher slope settings and your first post stating those settings "run wonderfully on my cab!" are hardly a disclaimer of your system likely being different in some way.  People easily could have heeded your earlier post, especially being the first of the entire support thread, changed to these settings appropriate only for you, and completely had an experience that was not at all what the author (I) intended to relay and painstakingly created.  The table took me huge amounts of time, best measured in months, to fine tune and all of it would be completely subverted and distorted if people were to follow your advice.

 

Once again, I actually wasn't mad or annoyed then but am furious now between your post Sunday and especially this most recent one and upon reviewing / reflection of that thread.  Here is that thread's link and I think you owe it to me Maceman to read it as you will see indeed that my rage now is only now and what's in recorded history is in the books, there was no attitude and I went to great lengths to assist you with something that was arguably even hijacking the topic:

http://www.vpforums....472&hl=sorcerer

 

 I don't think any part of that thread has me coming off sounding anything but a pretty freakin' decent guy trying once again to help someone who has some localized issues despite them almost sabotaging someone else's work.  I would ask anyone who is surprised by my anger or thinks I'm over-reacting to see that thread as it clearly shows everything I put forth above in this response and I think makes your most recent comments towards me extra undeserved

 

To top it off and even with all that that previous thread revealed and the time you didn't take to research exactly what transpired, you still didn't even bother to simply look up / back here in this very same topic at your previous posts before you asserted "i always prefaced my comments with the fact that perhaps it is my system".  No man, you did not!  You have not in any of the posts you've made going back to the beginning of this thread - seriously, do it now, grab the mouse this time and move it to the scrolly bar thingy and take a freakin' look for yourself.  I can't believe you would post something with such certainty and absolution and not even take the 10 seconds it would take to simply scroll up and look for yourself before making your claims as to what you had said.  Some of what you did or did not say is only a few posts up on this very same screen! What a brutal and minimal effort that weakens your credibility and any point you're trying to make.

 

I know in all of this that it started initially for me with just you saying you're "a bit annoyed" (and well the total lack of any thanks for providing you with the details and parameters you would need to resolve your situation) and may seem small when only looking at that post, but what I'm really furious about now is what I've unearthed by contemplating and looking into your claim / response - the things you didn't even bother to do before you posted, and the things you've said you said but didn't.  Even more so after your ridiculous post today.  I've come back out of it with furry that I haven't had for anyone or any topic on this forum before.  It's inflaming to hear you be even remotely annoyed with me or talk about some attitude I've had here with the lack of due diligence you've shown, the time I've spent on these tables and in helping you in that other thread, and the purest of motive I had on Sunday night to try and get at least a response to you to help you not be stuck with the hidden aspects of the flippers.   Honestly Maceman with all this, I really think you owe me an apology.   Really, think about it...anyone.... everyone... someone spends 70-80 or more hours of their time to release a significant table to the community and someone else, in the midst of a complaint / statement of annoyance against them doesn't even bother to take a matter of seconds it would take to review their previous post before they claim their shit.  That's just completely out of whack and I've had enough of this demonstration of disrespect and imbalance of effort / contribution that all too often happens here.

 

It's really a shame that this is all going down now and that you have really helped me blow my stack and reach my wits end.  There was another thread about FXAA settings and Windows 7 that you, I and The Loafer were involved with that had a misunderstanding but actually was so decently handled it actually evoked a response from someone else commenting on how impressed they were with how we handled it.  That was a compliment to all three of us.  I don't want to disgrace that decent issue resolution and closed case but have to point out that that topic's misunderstanding has some similarities to what's upset me here and now but differs in that one as I was openly admitting I was frustrated during the events / posts - not afterward.   The commonality is that both time to test / verify something before information / claims were posted was apparently inadequate as the results and information turned out to be incorrect.  Secondly, previous posts were not reviewed or properly referenced when responses were formed.  

 

There was another incident since I released this table with the desktop version where someone spent minimal effort before acting and reporting it broken, as demonstrable with the small amount of time between the release time and his report. This premature and 100% inaccurate statement labelled things falsely with words like "corrupt" in his description causing the download I provided and, as always, verified, to have a freakin' banner across it saying it was broken.  It remained for almost a full day but thanks to Noah he resolved it and assessed changes to the system to help authors not be held hostage by these 3rd party false reports sometimes without even knowing who made them.  I'm sure that incident has helped make that portion of this release as weak as it has been as far as downloads or comments (none).  Heck, the way this FS thread has gone with comments, I think I'd take no comments over the couple ridiculous and unfounded ones here.

 

I've given it a couple days to try and cool off and thought about things, have lost sleep (a lot on Sunday) over everything that's occurred with this most recent release and in general with this hobby that has captivated me, but my mood and mind hasn't changed much.  The fun of trying to create as realistic VP tables as possible and forwarding my work to try and give back to the community has unfortunately now had the bottom fall out.  I have got to the point now that I really just can't handle the imbalance of efforts / contribution with so few people putting in the time or doing their due diligence before claiming issues, problems, or putting forth incorrect or negative comments against a well polished table or one of only a handful of authors / modders still producing works.  After spending sometimes upward of over 100 hours of my free time on a table, it's just too much that some people here do not even take the smallest amount of time (sometimes fairly measurable in seconds), before they assert, respond, or "contribute".  The math of the dozens of hours vs. several seconds for careless responses has just provided me with a bit of an epiphany of the correction I need to make in my life regarding how I spend my time.

 

I think throughout my time on this forum I've conducted myself well and respectfully.  I've been extremely thorough and detailed on my table releases, testing, and postings to the point of sometimes being to verbose.  It is not my intention to create "drama" as this post will reasonably qualify for, but before I step back and become mostly invisible here, I wanted to describe for anyone that might wonder down the road where I went and why, what exactly happened from my point of view regarding the topic / post that "broke the camel's back" for me and what lead me to this need to step away.   

[kruge99]

"...well that escalated quickly."

[maceman]

Jimmy,

 

I think you are honest with yourself, you will have to admit I am a nice guy. Many people here have PM'ed me just that message. When you realize that, all your anger can be pointed elsewhere as it is mis-directed.

 

You have correctly identified what made me annoyed. I don't like people who are condecending or elitist, no matter who they are. When i feel that, it is natural to defend it. You have gone bizerk over nothing, and that is cool...maybe you needed to let off some steam.

 

Look, there have been many people new to these forums who stop in and criticize our good authors, and many of US do not stand for it.  I am not one of those people and do not like to get slotted in that camp either.

 

You say i never said thanx for the flipper tip??, so I can only assume you are not reading. I clearly stated i loved the physics did i not?  I think there are probably less than 100 posts of mine on this entire forum that do not say "Thanx" somewhere in my post/ If you search all your table own posts, you will find my name, and you will find a Thanx. you got no thanx this time because of how you spoke to me, publically.

I have feelings too, and you seemed to disregard them. You have explained issues you have had, and i can bypass any ill-feelings, but I hope you will strongly consider who are friends or not in future.

Most of us here just want to play a game of pinball. When someone like yourself comes along and makes it better, GREAT!  But if we don't understand everything and get nuckles wrapped for asking a question..sheeeeshhhhh! You know what i am saying?

 

All i needed was a "Hey Mace, good question man... If you prefer a little more strength, here is where i have wrote some info with direction... or here is the thread you had trouble finding..."

If you treat people better in your candor, you will certainly get a thanx, i am certain!

 

Noone wants anyone to leave....but if you need a break, that is perfectly fine. If you stay, that is even better.
Cheers,

Maceman

Edited by maceman, 07 February 2013 - 03:20 AM.

[The Loafer]

I hate threads that end up like this. My take from a 3rd party perspective? I totally get the 17 minutes thing, as I would imagine working on a table to this extent has to be draining and even exhausting. I try and place myself in the position of the author and I guess I might have been annoyed too, especially when a table is built with a system that has been clearly documented as being one that works within a sensitive balance, change one thing and yeah, it may "fix" that perceived particular issue but it will probably lead to a negative impact on other aspects of the table.

In saying that, I have read many posts from Maceman and they always seem to be with a good intent in mind, he is a true contributing member and I am certain this was no different, there was an intent of helping others behind the post. Thinking back of the stupid FXAA thread I created, I would say we don't always think of the negative impact of a post, though I don't doubt we should but we aren't
always wired that way, especially when jumping the gun on something. We get caught up in the moment, especially if we think what we post can help others.

I think you both are cool people and if this was a playground, i would force you both to shake hands . As it is, I just ask that you consider the other POV and remember, you are Canadians, we are supposed to be always understanding and friendly

[thewool]

I disagree Loafer, if this was a playground I would hold their coats and shout "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!!!!!!!"

 

Of course I'm joking