1353 replies to this topic

[Drybonz]

Here are my crash files.  FILE

[unclewilly]

this is the crash text i got,  failed top save dmp

https://www.dropbox..../crash.txt?dl=0

[fuzzel]

hmm strange do you both use the latest beta?

[unclewilly]

I just upgraded to the latest beta yesterday. Not positive wether it came berofe or after the upgrade.
I'll be doing some more coding on bad cats shortly. If i have any crashes I'll upload the files

[Drybonz]

Looks like I am on 2762... these crashes would go back to previous versions... not sure how far.

[sliderpoint]

current build.  Here is a crash at a different time, this was exiting play I believe. The first one was in the editor.

 

-Mike

[BorgDog]

Haven't had any crashes yet, but haven't used it much either.  

 

But I do want to talk about plungers.  A few related things:

 

Recently the default was set to essentially zero (0.01) for the park position, because my understanding is the prior default didn't work with someones analog plunger.  Nothing against them, and I know why they do that, but that value has no basis in reality.  I don't know where the prior 0.166667 or whatever it was came from, but at least it was something.  All the plungers on any real cab I've seen have that spring movement forward and can be pushed forward (is there a key for that in vp?).  I think we want VP defaults to have some basis in reality, this as well as physics values.

 

Even though Park Position is labeled in the command reference text file as "used only if MechPlunger is enabled" it has a definite effect on just keyboard plunging if it isn't there, mainly in that it has no bounce when releasing the plunger before resting at the park position, it just dead stops.  It does that if MechPlunger is not enabled, or if the park is set to zero (or 0.01). so again another reason to have a park position other than 0 or 0.01, realistic animation.  

 

And to add to that the park position should be on whether mechplunger is enabled or not, why would you not want it with keyboard plunging?

 

Which brings up the thought of why is there any reason to NOT have mechplunger enabled?  what purpose does that serve?  It should just be on period, shouldn't even need an option to turn it off.

 

I think that's it for now, thanks for listening.

[DJRobX]

I agree with Borg.  My physical plunger works perfectly fine on VPX tables out of the box (Except CV for reasons I already mentioned).   There is no need to change the default park position.     I can push the plunger forward a little and it moves as it should (Z position goes negative).

 

That person with the plunger problem should use DXDiag to alter the park position of their physical plunger a bit.

Edited by DJRobX, 25 August 2016 - 05:13 AM.

[toxie]

As for correct values for the plunger, etc: I don't have a clue about all of that (and also do not have the hardware), as mjr did most of the rewrite, so if you guys want to have that tweaked or improved, please contact him about it, so he can have a look.

[Slydog43]

I see that on many tables, when I slowly pull back the plunger the ball actually moves forward a bit.  I think that is what that change in position was for.  

[BorgDog]

I see that on many tables, when I slowly pull back the plunger the ball actually moves forward a bit.  I think that is what that change in position was for.  

Correct, and i have that same issue with my plunger, but that is a plunger issue I believe not a VP issue but could be a combination of both.  Artificially setting the park to 0 "fixes" that by making it so the plunger will not move forward as it has no forward movement, but that is not a solution to whatever the real issue is, it just masks it.

[hauntfreaks]

to the left is where i normally set my plunger, sometimes even a bit higher so the ball rested on the tip of the plunger more than in its cradle 

I also agree the check box to enable mechanical is moot now ..... have we been given a reason why its still there??

 

Attached Files

•  Capture.PNG   2.88KB   10 downloads

[vogliadicane]

I see that on many tables, when I slowly pull back the plunger the ball actually moves forward a bit.  I think that is what that change in position was for.  

I have the same issue, would be really needed to fix that. Behaviour is anything but natural.

 

Where can I change the "parking position"? Would like to give that a try.

[Knorr]

I use mech.plunger on/off in roadshow to separate each of them

[sliderpoint]

As for correct values for the plunger, etc: I don't have a clue about all of that (and also do not have the hardware), as mjr did most of the rewrite, so if you guys want to have that tweaked or improved, please contact him about it, so he can have a look.

 

I didn't see any input from MJR when the default park position was changed?   That change doesn't work for my cab using MJR's pinscape controller.  The complication is that there are a variety of solutions for mech plungers out there and they all seem to behave a little different.  

 

I don't think we need to get rid of the mech plunger option, but it should be enabled by default.  I use plunger objects for auto launch and ball save objects, mech is disabled for those.

 

-Mike

[toxie]

As said, i do not know anything about all that, especially as i do not own a virtual plunger.. And as most people agreed on the default park position change back then, i simply did the change..

 

Please, somebody who knows about all the plunger implications and weirdnesses, contact mjr and try figuring this out with him together.. cause if i'd contact him i cannot give any valuable input whats wrong or right or what should be enhanced..

[Umpa]

I don't agree if enable mech plunger is moot. I recently checked it to get vpx fast draw to recognize my mechanical plunger.

[BorgDog]

I don't agree if enable mech plunger is moot. I recently checked it to get vpx fast draw to recognize my mechanical plunger.

What we're saying is it should just be enabled by default, you shouldn't have to check it.

 

@toxie  I'm not an expert only just started up my mech plunger recently, but I'll see if I can get in touch with mjr. 

[TerryRed]

Don't know if this is helpful...

 

I use an XBOX 360 gamepad for my cabinet buttons and controls. I use the Y axis from the left thumbstick, (which is connected to a silder potentiometer) for my analogue plunger. It works perfect out of the box in VPX!

[mjr]

 

As for correct values for the plunger, etc: I don't have a clue about all of that (and also do not have the hardware), as mjr did most of the rewrite, so if you guys want to have that tweaked or improved, please contact him about it, so he can have a look.

 

I didn't see any input from MJR when the default park position was changed?   That change doesn't work for my cab using MJR's pinscape controller.  The complication is that there are a variety of solutions for mech plungers out there and they all seem to behave a little different.  

 

I don't think we need to get rid of the mech plunger option, but it should be enabled by default.  I use plunger objects for auto launch and ball save objects, mech is disabled for those.

 

Right, I haven't touched anything on the plunger since the overhaul a couple of years ago.  So this wasn't me.

 

The .1667 default was always there because it pretty well approximates real plungers - they usually have about 2.5" of travel pulled back from the rest position, and about 1/2" travel pushing forward from the rest position, compressing the barrel spring.  That's about 3" of travel overall, with 5/6 of it behind the rest position and 1/6 forward of the rest position.  The "park position" value is on a normalized scale from 0 to 1, so 1/6 of the overall travel comes to .1667.

 

Like I said, I wasn't involved in the recent change to the park position, so I don't know what the motivation was.  It sounds like it was an attempt to fix someone's mechanical plunger issue, but I don't know the details.

 

I'd tend to agree that the "enable mech plunger" option should be enabled by default.  There were good reasons to disable it before the overhaul, specifically that the checkbox basically selected between two completely different types of physics for the plunger.  Most desktop people (using the keyboard, not a mech plunger) hated the second set of physics you got when mech was enabled.  And the keyboard physics didn't work for cab people with real plungers.  That was one of my big motivations for the overhaul - I wanted to unify the physics so that both worked about the same way and worked well for both groups.  Hopefully that much is true now, so most desktop people shouldn't even notice any difference with the checkbox enabled.  I'd leave it there as an option for the time being even so, but hopefully there will come a time when no one even remembers why it's there.