23 replies to this topic

[Ltek]

I have installed about 30 tables... most are pretty demanding and work flawlessly on VPx's 'High Video Setting'. I have a few parts in a few tables that are blocky (link to photos below, I could not figure out how to attached photos to a post). These tables have zero lag, zero stutter during motion, etc -- and the blocky areas are always the same per table, and always table areas with no motion (the components of the table do not move... like bridges, etc)

I have an AMD GPU and per one forum post, enabled 'Alternative Depth Buffer Processing' but that didnt fix the blocky parts. 

help is highly appreciated!

 

https://imgur.com/a/GHK1R83

 

[Gravy]

Alternate depth buffer processing would normally be the fix for that issue, not sure if anyone else can offer more help? Are you sure the setting has stuck when you changed it?

Edit: I don't suppose you have an autopov.pov file that overrides any changes to settings you may be attempting to make? I cant remember if the latest version of autopov is able to save this particular graphic setting? 

Edited by Gravy, 13 February 2023 - 05:08 AM.

[xenonph]

I have installed about 30 tables... most are pretty demanding and work flawlessly on VPx's 'High Video Setting'. I have a few parts in a few tables that are blocky (link to photos below, I could not figure out how to attached photos to a post). These tables have zero lag, zero stutter during motion, etc -- and the blocky areas are always the same per table, and always table areas with no motion (the components of the table do not move... like bridges, etc)

I have an AMD GPU and per one forum post, enabled 'Alternative Depth Buffer Processing' but that didnt fix the blocky parts. 

help is highly appreciated!

 

https://imgur.com/a/GHK1R83

 

Try checkmarking Brute-Force 4x SSAA in your Video Options in editor.

 

[charley]

this is just one of the many reasons i asked for a user guide for all the new DTexec programs.  920-VPX

i have had some similar problems but i dont want to ask because i get a lot of back talk.

i dont want to go "clickin' shit to see what it does" like wizardhat wanted me to do.

might make it worse then can't get back.

i have been in and out of here for more than 12yrs.

i dont mind the idea of a "do-it yourself kit" but the DEV team has made it more and more work to deal with.

Edited by charley, 13 February 2023 - 09:03 PM.

[Ltek]

I understand the frustration. As a 25 year career hardware and software person, there is a lot of issues - some are simple to fix if the developers wanted to. (like having a single folder per table for all item associated with that table). 
The people are clearly fantastic artists and less-than-fantastic programmers. 

A lot of the issue are basic lack of structure and consistency -- that is both within the applications that run the tables, and within this community. Even Popper, which aims to make things easier (and in some cases does a great job) has big time misses on some of the basics and over complicates a lot of easy things... and with others the coder barely figured out how to do something and didn't try to make it beyond 'barely usable' - like the controller interface not working with USB HID properly (a standard Windows API that does all the work for you), which is why Joy2K and other methods are needed

oh well... it will need a lot of people to care who prob dont want to since they already spent the 2000hrs learning and setting up everything.

 

this is just one of the many reasons i asked for a user guide for all the new DTexec programs.  920-VPX

i have had some similar problems but i dont want to ask because i get a lot of back talk.

i dont want to go "clickin' shit to see what it does" like wizardhat wanted me to do.

might make it worse then can't get back.

i have been in and out of here for more than 12yrs.

i dont mind the idea of a "do-it yourself kit" but the DEV team has made it more and more work to deal with.

[Gravy]

 

I understand the frustration. As a 25 year career hardware and software person, there is a lot of issues - some are simple to fix if the developers wanted to. (like having a single folder per table for all item associated with that table). 
The people are clearly fantastic artists and less-than-fantastic programmers. 

A lot of the issue are basic lack of structure and consistency -- that is both within the applications that run the tables, and within this community. Even Popper, which aims to make things easier (and in some cases does a great job) has big time misses on some of the basics and over complicates a lot of easy things... and with others the coder barely figured out how to do something and didn't try to make it beyond 'barely usable' - like the controller interface not working with USB HID properly (a standard Windows API that does all the work for you), which is why Joy2K and other methods are needed

oh well... it will need a lot of people to care who prob dont want to since they already spent the 2000hrs learning and setting up everything.

 

this is just one of the many reasons i asked for a user guide for all the new DTexec programs.  920-VPX

i have had some similar problems but i dont want to ask because i get a lot of back talk.

i dont want to go "clickin' shit to see what it does" like wizardhat wanted me to do.

might make it worse then can't get back.

i have been in and out of here for more than 12yrs.

i dont mind the idea of a "do-it yourself kit" but the DEV team has made it more and more work to deal with.

 

Visual Pinball has been around since 2000, so it's now over 20 years old. In that time many talented programmers have worked on it mostly in an unpaid role, skill level would likely be very varied. There was a period when it was licensed to a commercial company and some of the coders would likely have been paid to make changes which were later given back to the community.

Also consider that there are several projects that go into making everything work, such as visual pinmame, b2s server, various DMD software and others, all tied together with string. So it's an amazing feat that any of it works together at all.

I'm not a coder, but would imagine it is very difficult to work with old code whilst trying not to break things as well as trying to make your piece of the pie compatible with the pie as a whole. Basically they are trying to shoehorn new features into a somewhat outdated system but they do the best they can given their own time constraints.

There is a new Visual Pinball project underway from scratch that uses Unity (Visual Pinball Engine, VPE) which will likely make things easier and a lot more polished but that is some way off in the future, also an unfunded project being created for the love of the game.

... and yes sometimes you just have to click shit, experiment, and hope for the best. If that is not in your nature then probably better to lay down some money on Pinball FX, Zaccaria Pinball or The Pinball Arcade.

Edited by Gravy, 13 February 2023 - 09:51 PM.

[charley]

gravy#6

yeah,  there has a been a big turnover in the DEV team through the years and their own ideas.

they are all missing the idea of keep it simple.

all the new programs and no explanation.

the program is going the wrong way.

Edited by charley, 13 February 2023 - 10:02 PM.

[Ltek]

 

I have installed about 30 tables... most are pretty demanding and work flawlessly on VPx's 'High Video Setting'. I have a few parts in a few tables that are blocky (link to photos below, I could not figure out how to attached photos to a post). These tables have zero lag, zero stutter during motion, etc -- and the blocky areas are always the same per table, and always table areas with no motion (the components of the table do not move... like bridges, etc)

I have an AMD GPU and per one forum post, enabled 'Alternative Depth Buffer Processing' but that didnt fix the blocky parts. 

help is highly appreciated!

 

https://imgur.com/a/GHK1R83

 

Try checkmarking Brute-Force 4x SSAA in your Video Options in editor.

 

Anti-Aliasing affect all separate graphic elements so its unlikely that Brute-Force 4x SSAA will do anything for this specific problem... which only is specific graphic elements are VERY badly rendering while all other table elements are perfect. 

[charley]

 

I understand the frustration. As a 25 year career hardware and software person, there is a lot of issues - some are simple to fix if the developers wanted to. (like having a single folder per table for all item associated with that table). 
The people are clearly fantastic artists and less-than-fantastic programmers. 

A lot of the issue are basic lack of structure and consistency -- that is both within the applications that run the tables, and within this community. Even Popper, which aims to make things easier (and in some cases does a great job) has big time misses on some of the basics and over complicates a lot of easy things... and with others the coder barely figured out how to do something and didn't try to make it beyond 'barely usable' - like the controller interface not working with USB HID properly (a standard Windows API that does all the work for you), which is why Joy2K and other methods are needed

oh well... it will need a lot of people to care who prob dont want to since they already spent the 2000hrs learning and setting up everything.

 

this is just one of the many reasons i asked for a user guide for all the new DTexec programs.  920-VPX

i have had some similar problems but i dont want to ask because i get a lot of back talk.

i dont want to go " clickin' shit to see what it does" like wizardhat wanted me to do.

might make it worse then can't get back.

i have been in and out of here for more than 12yrs.

i dont mind the idea of a "do-it yourself kit" but the DEV team has made it more and more work to deal with.

 

well said...........

i like some of your ideas. 

the DEV team needs to get back to a basic idea of keep it simple as possible.

Edited by charley, 14 February 2023 - 12:19 AM.

[charley]

don't spend time creating the new 995b-VPX user guides.

i said i would google the functions.

why didn't you take notes on the DTexecs functions as you developed them then post in help files.

Edited by charley, 14 February 2023 - 12:18 AM.

[charley]

I have installed about 30 tables... most are pretty demanding and work flawlessly on VPx's 'High Video Setting'. I have a few parts in a few tables that are blocky (link to photos below, I could not figure out how to attached photos to a post). These tables have zero lag, zero stutter during motion, etc -- and the blocky areas are always the same per table, and always table areas with no motion (the components of the table do not move... like bridges, etc)

I have an AMD GPU and per one forum post, enabled 'Alternative Depth Buffer Processing' but that didnt fix the blocky parts. 

help is highly appreciated!

 

https://imgur.com/a/GHK1R83

 

Ltek,

i was reviewing the thread.

i see you are using an AMD card.

Nvidia GPU gfx card is recommended for the program.

ive been here for 12yrs.

i remember members using something else than a Nvidia and had graphics problems.

ball on top of flipper and some of the visual problems you are having are just a few of the reported problems with 

something else other than Nvidia GPU.

when i first started here back in 2010 on VP9 i used an enrty level GT220 for @$100 on a low end PC.

its not a gaming card but it did work with no visual problems.

i am not saying the AMDgpu is the problem.   maybe something to consider.

Edited by charley, 14 February 2023 - 07:39 AM.

[Ltek]

 

I have installed about 30 tables... most are pretty demanding and work flawlessly on VPx's 'High Video Setting'. I have a few parts in a few tables that are blocky (link to photos below, I could not figure out how to attached photos to a post). These tables have zero lag, zero stutter during motion, etc -- and the blocky areas are always the same per table, and always table areas with no motion (the components of the table do not move... like bridges, etc)

I have an AMD GPU and per one forum post, enabled 'Alternative Depth Buffer Processing' but that didnt fix the blocky parts. 

help is highly appreciated!

 

https://imgur.com/a/GHK1R83

 

Ltek,

i was reviewing the thread.

i see you are using an AMD card.

Nvidia GPU gfx card is recommended for the program.

ive been here for 12yrs.

i remember members using something else than a Nvidia and had graphics problems.

ball on top of flipper and some of the visual problems you are having are just a few of the reported problems with 

something else other than Nvidia GPU.

when i first started here back in 2010 on VP9 i used an enrty level GT220 for @$100 on a low end PC.

its not a gaming card but it did work with no visual problems.

i am not saying the AMDgpu is the problem.   maybe something to consider.

 

I fixed the issue... not exactly sure what fixed it since I changed a few things but I'll try to narrow it down to help others and publish my settings. I'm back to VPx's High default. 

 

@xenonph I did turn on Brute-Force 4x SSAA but suspect it might be slowing my frame rate. I need more testing to see if that was the fix. I also reset the AMD drive settings back to default at the same time (yea, not good troubleshooting method) I'll let you know for sure soon!

 

btw, AMD gfx chips are good (they also run all modern gaming consoles) . PC problems are 99% driver related and mostly occur on high-end AAA games. 

 

[xenonph]

I fixed the issue... not exactly sure what fixed it since I changed a few things but I'll try to narrow it down to help others and publish my settings. I'm back to VPx's High default. 

 

@xenonph I did turn on Brute-Force 4x SSAA but suspect it might be slowing my frame rate. I need more testing to see if that was the fix. I also reset the AMD drive settings back to default at the same time (yea, not good troubleshooting method) I'll let you know for sure soon!

 

btw, AMD gfx chips are good (they also run all modern gaming consoles) . PC problems are 99% driver related and mostly occur on high-end AAA games. 

 

 

The only reason I even suggested the Brute-Force option was someone noticed the screenshots of my mods all had jaggies on plastics edges.

They asked me what settings I was running, and then they told me to checkmark that Brute-Force option, and all of the jaggies went away instantly.

Now all of my screenshots of my table mods are clear with no jaggies.

 

Hope this helped you!

Edited by xenonph, 14 February 2023 - 11:35 PM.

[Gravy]

 

I fixed the issue... not exactly sure what fixed it since I changed a few things but I'll try to narrow it down to help others and publish my settings. I'm back to VPx's High default. 

 

@xenonph I did turn on Brute-Force 4x SSAA but suspect it might be slowing my frame rate. I need more testing to see if that was the fix. I also reset the AMD drive settings back to default at the same time (yea, not good troubleshooting method) I'll let you know for sure soon!

 

btw, AMD gfx chips are good (they also run all modern gaming consoles) . PC problems are 99% driver related and mostly occur on high-end AAA games. 

 

 

The only reason I even suggested the Brute-Force option was someone noticed the screenshots of my mods all had jaggies on plastics edges.

They asked me what settings I was running, and then they told me to checkmark that Brute-Force option, and all of the jaggies went away instantly.

Now all of my screenshots of my table mods are clear with no jaggies.

 

Hope this helped you!

 

Xenonph, would you happen to have an old screenshot of the jaggies you noticed in your earlier mod images.

[xenonph]

 

 

I fixed the issue... not exactly sure what fixed it since I changed a few things but I'll try to narrow it down to help others and publish my settings. I'm back to VPx's High default. 

 

@xenonph I did turn on Brute-Force 4x SSAA but suspect it might be slowing my frame rate. I need more testing to see if that was the fix. I also reset the AMD drive settings back to default at the same time (yea, not good troubleshooting method) I'll let you know for sure soon!

 

btw, AMD gfx chips are good (they also run all modern gaming consoles) . PC problems are 99% driver related and mostly occur on high-end AAA games. 

 

 

The only reason I even suggested the Brute-Force option was someone noticed the screenshots of my mods all had jaggies on plastics edges.

They asked me what settings I was running, and then they told me to checkmark that Brute-Force option, and all of the jaggies went away instantly.

Now all of my screenshots of my table mods are clear with no jaggies.

 

Hope this helped you!

 

Xenonph, would you happen to have an old screenshot of the jaggies you noticed in your earlier mod images.

 

This was a long time ago.

I searched through most of my support topics, and couldn't find the post, but it was many years ago.

I have left Brute-Force checkmarked ever since.

The jaggies were not in the middle of plastics, but were on most edges, and even effected wire ramps and all.

 

EDIT:

I found the post!! 5 years ago!!

Here it is...

https://vpuniverse.c...t&comment=38550

Edited by xenonph, 15 February 2023 - 12:51 AM.

[wiesshund]

FSAA affects objects drawn diagonal of screen
but i dont think it would have any effect on what is shown in the screen shot as the objects are not jaggy
but the texture inside the object

[Gravy]

 

 

EDIT:

I found the post!! 5 years ago!!

Here it is...

https://vpuniverse.c...t&comment=38550

 

Thanks, I think this is not the same issue OP is seeing, but perhaps for some reason the brute force 4x SSAA is making a difference. Stranger things have happened...

[Ltek]

Its fixed!  Getting 70 to 100 FPS on every table (average mid-80s).  LOTR was one of the tables showing the issue and I average 90fps in that using the 'default' High Video settings in VPx (Brute Force 4x SSAA is OFF).

 

I caused the problem by "tweaking" AMD video driver settings (dont know what it was) but when I reset to the defaults, issue disappeared.

 

btw... did some testing with 'Brute Force 4x SSAA' ... All tables were 30-45fps with it on (down from 70-100fps). So that one is a no-go unless you have a super duper GFX card.

 

thx for all the input!

Edited by Ltek, 15 February 2023 - 01:27 AM.

[wiesshund]

Its fixed!  Getting 70 to 100 FPS on every table (average mid-80s).  LOTR was one of the tables showing the issue and I average 90fps in that using the 'default' High Video settings in VPx (Brute Force 4x SSAA is OFF).

 

I caused the problem by "tweaking" AMD video driver settings (dont know what it was) but when I reset to the defaults, issue disappeared.

 

btw... did some testing with 'Brute Force 4x SSAA' ... All tables were 30-45fps with it on (down from 70-100fps). So that one is a no-go unless you have a super duper GFX card.

 

thx for all the input!

what GPU and at what resolution?

 

RX580 or better can run VPX with all bells and whistles @ 2K
You should be able to run 4K decently with an RX6600 or better, may need some adjusting for a 6600 BUT at 4K, FSAA is kind of no longer needed
Diminishing returns

 

For all AMD GPU's
In Adrenaline, for VPX, disable morphalogic AA, it causes weirds twinkling effects in colors, especially dark colors
FSAA just leave at application settings rather than enhance application settings

If using a lower end GPU and you want to drive a 4k screen, enable super resolution
and then run VPX itself at 2K and adrenaline will upscale it, and it will look pretty good and you will keep the 2K performance
You may want to keep the brute forced 4X fsaa enabled if doing this

Anisotropic does not reallt matter what you set it as, since VPX employs a brute force hack on it.

 

Leave V-Sync off in Adrenaline, let VPX directly dictate vsync or not

I prefer not to enable freesync

[charley]

 

Its fixed!  Getting 70 to 100 FPS on every table (average mid-80s).  LOTR was one of the tables showing the issue and I average 90fps in that using the 'default' High Video settings in VPx (Brute Force 4x SSAA is OFF).

 

I caused the problem by "tweaking" AMD video driver settings (dont know what it was) but when I reset to the defaults, issue disappeared.

 

btw... did some testing with 'Brute Force 4x SSAA' ... All tables were 30-45fps with it on (down from 70-100fps). So that one is a no-go unless you have a super duper GFX card.

 

thx for all the input!

what GPU and at what resolution?

 

RX580 or better can run VPX with all bells and whistles @ 2K
You should be able to run 4K decently with an RX6600 or better, may need some adjusting for a 6600 BUT at 4K, FSAA is kind of no longer needed
Diminishing returns

 

For all AMD GPU's
In Adrenaline, for VPX, disable morphalogic AA, it causes weirds twinkling effects in colors, especially dark colors
FSAA just leave at application settings rather than enhance application settings

If using a lower end GPU and you want to drive a 4k screen, enable super resolution
and then run VPX itself at 2K and adrenaline will upscale it, and it will look pretty good and you will keep the 2K performance
You may want to keep the brute forced 4X fsaa enabled if doing this

Anisotropic does not reallt matter what you set it as, since VPX employs a brute force hack on it.

 

Leave V-Sync off in Adrenaline, let VPX directly dictate vsync or not

I prefer not to enable freesync

 

 

where are you getting this info on how to use the VPX DTexec functions or any of the DTexecs?

why cant we have it? 

who are you talking to?   give it to us and this will save a lot of time for everybody.

don't give me some lame excuse.  give it up.

Edited by charley, 15 February 2023 - 08:15 AM.