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Interview: Vito, Co-founder of SlamIt Pinball!


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#1 Noah Fentz

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:42 AM

It's that time again, and this time, we have a very special guest. He and I both have been very busy, so I apologize for the delay. Allow me to introduce the man who brought to us SlamIt Pinball and the Big Score table, and now promises to take our beloved hobby, virtual pinball, to the next level! ... Vito! ....


Noah Fentz: What can you tell us about yourself, where you are from, and what you do?

Vito: I’m from Belgrade, Serbia. I’m a director of digital sector in one of our biggest marketing agencies. Besides that I’m a co-founder and executive director of Technetium Games.

Previous to jumping in marketing waters, I was a development director within a company that was doing multi-touch devices development and interactive screens. Here we also worked with face detection and tracking and I believe pinball community is interested in seeing some of these technologies implemented in next generation of pinball simulators.

Even previous to that, but still as a part of my activities, I was, or still am in a way, associated with Center for Digital Archaeology, where we did projects in digitalization and presentation of cultural heritage. Where you might ask, how is archaeology connected to all of this. Well, I’m an archaeologist, but that is another story.

Noah Fentz: Could you briefly explain how SlamIt Pinball got its start and what was your motivation?

Vito: SlamIt was conceived one evening when a crazy idea went through my head: it would be possible to build a pinball simulation where you could hit all the keys on your keyboard (later: SlamIt mode) and based on the position of the hit we could nudge a pinball.

That was a starting point. A simple idea that got me excited and inspired to start the project.

Noah Fentz: Are you a big pinball fan yourself?

Vito: Yes. My pinball addiction was of course one of the big drivers for SlamIt, as I have spent countless hours with my friends playing pinball. I was also a big fan of computer pinball simulations, as I played first pinball games on a computer.

Noah Fentz: What, in your opinion, makes a pinball table great? What's your favorite table to play? Have you played VP/FP much in your spare time?

Vito: A pinball table is all about user experience and story telling. If there is not a strong story behind a table that a player can identify to and understand, pinball table misses the point. That is why we have seen so many licensed tables of movies or famous themes or brands. It is easy to connect.

My most favorite pinball table is by all means Indiana Jones (first release). It inspired many concepts in “Big Score” table. It is a clean table with strong story behind it (maybe I had some personal preferences associated with archaeology).

On VP/FP question, I must say I have played a lot of VP, but not FP. VP had some really good recreations of real-world tables, so I enjoyed these very much. FP was never something that I could connect to. Physics were unrealistic for me, and that was a big drawback.

Noah Fentz: Who or what inspired you to take the next step into creating an editor and developing your business approach?

Vito: Editor as a concept was at first strongly avoided. First calculation was that investment in an editor would drag development and burn money unnecessarily, as we wanted to release the first table as soon as possible. At that time, we had no experience in development of pinball tables, so it looked like a mission impossible to create an editor for something that we were still learning about.

And then, when SlamIt was finally released, it became obvious that all publishers wanted more tables. They wanted more tables now, and we simply could not deliver them, as we had no tools to build the tables quickly and easily. That was the moment we realized we needed an editor, if we ever wanted to survive on the market beyond “Big Score”.

Noah Fentz: Did the existence of such editors and their community support inspire that decision?

Vito: Visual Pinball and Future Pinball were in our sight since the beginning. We thought that releasing a platform such is FP to the public without any business model was a business suicide, and to be honest, we were a little afraid of that. On one side, we invested a lot of money into a game where we are competing with a free platform. Yes, we knew our game was better, but would that count when sales start?

What followed was very interesting. VP and FP generated community of pinball lovers that turned into pinball designers. Platform (FP) died naturally as there was no commercial engine to keep it running. Community was left abandoned, but still with a great wish to play and create more great pinballs.

Inspiration was there. We always wanted to deliver the best platform for pinball tables, ever. That was our biggest driver. Best graphics, best physics, no compromises, best music, sound, original storyline, original table. But once we did that, what was the next step? Hard code the next table.. hardly. We needed to rise on the next level. Move beyond “one table – one game” concept, to a completely new plane. Give to people exactly what they want and need.

Noah Fentz: Please detail, briefly, how the commercial aspect of SlamIt Pinball works. We have been told that tables can be submitted to the commercial market on multiple platforms. Which platforms? How does this work for the authors and SlamIt Pinball?

Vito: Model is simple and corresponds to current trends in industry. We will provide a platform and tools to build great pinball tables for that platform. Platform will be constantly upgraded and supported with new features. It will be released for most dominant gaming platforms, with a goal of becoming a standard on all possible playing devices. Every gaming device will have our unique client application with access to marketplace where players can buy pinball tables. Similar to what Apple is doing with their AppStore, or as a mater of fact, every platform provider now days.

But we have an exception here.

Once a table is created, it will work on all gaming devices. This is a huge difference. Table is content, a value, a creation. It lives beyond operating systems, devices and beyond time.

So, what are the facts then.
Editor – PC only version for now.
Client - Start PC and Mac versions. Next step, all gaming consoles. Next step, mobile and tablet.
Special client version – for cabinets.

Commercial model is straightforward. Authors of tables that reach marketplace get percentage of all sales on all platforms. We are not yet releasing details on this or any numbers, as it depends on many factors, some of which are not in our complete control.

Noah Fentz: Will there be a free editor made available? Are table designers allowed to freely distribute their work with no commercial involvement, if they choose?

Vito: We still don’t know whether the editor will be free. Maybe community would argue it should be free, but to be honest, we still don’t know. There are couple of scenarios here, and I’m not saying free is not considered.

If we don’t value our work and our time invested into building a next generation platform, we will not succeed. Until enough momentum is created and business is healthy, we need to be very careful on how we invest time and money, calculating a moment when we reach self sustainability, so that platform can continue to live without a fear of dying.

Free distribution of tables is a subject yet to be discussed. Of course we need to provide some form of interchanging of tables within the community, but end-player to get a free table, that is a very delicate subject. We don’t want to destroy the business model and a platform with releasing free tables and then regretting for doing it.

All these are just small details in a much bigger picture. But, they say the devil is in the details, so we need to be careful from the start.

Noah Fentz: Why javascript scripting and not the traditional VBScript its predecessors utilized?

Vito: JavaScript is much more powerful then VBScript. It will open possibilities pinball authors are not yet aware of. JavaScript is also easily implemented on a cross platform solutions, and presents a standard in web development today, thus having a lot of documentation and quality documentation and examples.

Noah Fentz: Are there any plans to implement VPinMAME functionality?

Vito: Not for now. This is a tricky subject as VPinMAME is used to create replicas of real world tables which all have licenses attached to them. We will definitely consider replicating real world tables, but it a serious matter especially because our platform will be commercial.

Noah Fentz: Thank you, Vito, for taking the time to answer some of my questions. I'm sure now only more questions from our members will follow!


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#2 rascal

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:06 AM

Thank you for this interview, it was very interesting. I don't know if Vito is now going to follow this thread and answer questions or not now.

I understand that this is going to be a commercial product, so I was wondering what the ballpark figures would be for getting set up with the editor and client ports? Will it be affordable to the average pinhead?

I'm not yet into the Apple App store scene, but I think that all the development editors/utilities/SDKs for that scene are free... correct me if I am wrong. To insure that SlamIt get as much public development and public participation, I would think that the tools for developing tables and the client ports should also be free or at least very inexpensive. It would be the tables themselves that would generate the tangible income and the overall interest to this program.

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#3 lettuce

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 11:45 AM

Interesting read, or though i fear that the editor wont be free or even offer a free edition. I think Vito is in it to make money, and i guess i can see the thinking, theres a business plan in place and funds are need to get this project off the ground. How much this will effect the progress and growth of the editor due to there possibly not being a free version remains to be seen, i dont think VP has anything to worry about for the foreseeable future

#4 Gravy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:13 PM

Naturally Vito intends to get some financial reward from his work and investment, but he also intends to share the earnings potential for those with some skills. So there is great potential here.

In my view, not giving away a free version of the editor will be a mistake, selling tables will be where the money is, not selling the editor. Only a very limited amount of people will want to make tables, even less will want to make them if they have to pay for the editor. Someone is much more likely to invest their own time in an untried concept (selling the tables), but less likely to invest BOTH time AND their own cash if they have to buy the editor.

If you look at some of the big players who offer "marketplaces" for people to sell their creations and take a cut of their earnings in return you will find that many are now offering the tools for free.

I guess you could giveaway a "Lite" version and sell a "Pro" version but I would seriously consider just having a completely free full featured version.

Perhaps Vito could consider 2 levels of editor, with the Free editor you can still sell tables within the system but you get a smaller percentage of profits from sales (less risk/less profit). If you pay for the editor upfront you get a higher percentage (higher risk/higher profit). Designers would not be able to upgrade for an already produced table once they saw a spike in sales, but they would be able to purchase the editor later so that all subsequent tables they build earn the higher profit. Might be a good way to test the waters for designers who are unsure about the concept.

Another idea might be to give out free licenses to all those who request a license within say the first month and after that start charging newcomers. That will give you a nice base of designers to start with and if it explodes you havent shot yourself in the foot for future sales of the editor.

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#5 Mr. Pacman

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:16 PM

Thanks for the interview!!

As a player, i wouldn't mind at all to pay some money for original tables in the style and quality of "Pro Pinball", but, it's a fact, that nobody has made a similar product yet. Slamit BigScore is relatively great, but it certainly looks "virtual" and somehow "uninspired" compared to the ancient Pro Pinball monsters. It's a fun table though! If the new Slamit editor had the ability to work with original table ROMs then it could be a miracle even at a small cost of "unrealistic 3d graphics".

As it seems though, they are trying to make an editor for original/new tables and this is a big issue. Great rules/scenarios must be made. Great authentic graphics/objects/toys must be made...this is not so easy for people to do it by themselves. It is not a one man's job. Most of these tables will be mediocre if they follow that model IMO. VPinMAME scene has great table releases because in most of them there are already existent rules and pics of existent and tested objects/designs, a really big amount of work is ready from the beginning. Authors put their technical skills to use this big amount of info inside VP. Original tables will need much more time and maybe more than one person to make great designs/rules...

Anyway, it's great when we see a software pinball developer talk about physics. This is the most important factor for a proper simulator IMO.

Edited by Mr. Pacman, 26 May 2010 - 12:29 PM.


#6 Shockman

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:40 PM

I don't know. The point the editor seems like it might be to create tables that will be sold. Free tables not discussed, very hard to believe.

I think an expensive editor that the tables could be sold or given away free would work.

I think a free editor that the tables must be sold by them with royalty would work.

I can see them paying people to use the editor, and them having the rights to the tables, with a smaller royalty.

I just can't see paying to them for something designed to create content for them to sell.


I sure after reading the mission statement, that they will decide that giving the editor for free would make them more money in the end.

I would have liked to seen a question regarding created or submitted content that was not good enough for sale, and what would happen to that.


I agree with Mr. PacMan, and would be surprised if any one person, even here could produce the quality Slamit is looking for in a workable time frame . VPF may however be a great place to find a team.

#7 highrise

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:49 PM

that was pretty interesting. I especially took note of his comments about Visual Basic - I would love to see a better programming language for writing game scripts.

#8 bolt

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 01:09 PM

Thanks for this interesting interview Noah and Vito.
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#9 Joe

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 02:11 PM

The big thing is who will own the rights / IP to the tables / content / ideas?

#10 ChainZaw

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 02:14 PM

I belive that if the product is good i can spend the money, I own PINBALL HALL of FAME for my X360. I know most of the tables in PHOF can be found here for VP but i belive that PHOF engine is better, so i spend the money on it.

I understand Vito, by charging money he can spend more time and resources on his product to make it better.

 


#11 Bob5453

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 03:11 PM

So I can't create a Spider-man table and Tii can't create a simple Space Alien table and then give them away?

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#12 H4CK3R

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 04:14 PM

QUOTE (Bob5453 @ May 26 2010, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So I can't create a Spider-man table and Tii can't create a simple Space Alien table and then give them away?

sad.gif


I think what he said that building tables and letting community members exchange tables is one thing, but for the end user .. IE paying ... No, they wont have access to any community table. Only commercial tables. Unless of course you get all licencing taken.

Pinmame support wont be developed buy them, but with Java Script, it can be implemented buy the community.

Alot of decisions still need to be made, and i will speak with them about the VPforums, and the desires that most VP members have... Access to free player made tables. I see no reason that a table that does not meet the criteria for the developers to commercialize a table, for it to be freely available to the community.





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#13 destruk

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 04:57 PM

Lots of commercial products used original game rules and layouts. So I think we'll be seeing a lot of 'clone games' regardless of rom support. I'm looking forward to making my "Big Green Ogre table" based on Family Guy for this product.

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#14 Practicedummy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 06:09 PM

I think if quality original tables are created with this program, that people will be inspired to buy the program, provided that the original tables will be free to distribute. The real question is the recreation tables and PinMAME support. I guess we'll wait and see.
Can tables created with this program be posted on a website such as this one for free distribution without violating the program's EULA agreement?

Edited by Practicedummy, 26 May 2010 - 06:11 PM.

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#15 Rawd

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE (destruk @ May 26 2010, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Big Green Ogre table"


Heh... I was thinking of doing "White horseman" smile.gif

I could sing the song myself... HAHAHHAHA.. Give me your money, beat the White Horseman.


 


#16 destruk

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE (Rawd @ May 26 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Heh... I was thinking of doing "White horseman" smile.gif

I could sing the song myself... HAHAHHAHA.. Give me your money, beat the White Horseman.


I'm interested to see how that one plays Rawd - maybe have a Horseshoe loop in it since it's based on a white Horseman?

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#17 007

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 12:25 PM

I bought the Big Score Collectors Edition, and I must say that I wasn't very impressed. With all the hype, I had expected something extraordinary, but what I found was a bug-ridden game, which doesn't have more to offer than VP physically and FP graphically. Sure, there are settings to fidget about with, but in the end, not as fantastic as is sounded, far from it. And it sure wasn't worth paying for.

Let's stick to free editors and free tables. This is a hobby with heart and soul. Not a marketing project.

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#18 Rawd

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE (7 @ Jun 7 2010, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I bought the Big Score Collectors Edition, and I must say that I wasn't very impressed. With all the hype, I had expected something extraordinary, but what I found was a bug-ridden game, which doesn't have more to offer than VP physically and FP graphically. Sure, there are settings to fidget about with, but in the end, not as fantastic as is sounded, far from it. And it sure wasn't worth paying for.

Let's stick to free editors and free tables. This is a hobby with heart and soul. Not a marketing project.


I don't know what game you were playing. I completely disagree. Maybe you were expecting too much.



 


#19 faralos

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 02:02 PM

QUOTE (ChainZaw @ May 26 2010, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I belive that if the product is good i can spend the money, I own PINBALL HALL of FAME for my X360. I know most of the tables in PHOF can be found here for VP but i belive that PHOF engine is better, so i spend the money on it.

I understand Vito, by charging money he can spend more time and resources on his product to make it better.


the dedicated gaming rigs always look better than a pc, due to the fact that that is all they need to do. there is no windows, antivirus programs, antispyware or anything else bogging them down. all their power is going to just running their games so of course they will look better and probably (except for the more expensive computers; i.e.Alienware) play faster too.

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#20 xzotic

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 01:08 AM

Sounds interesting but very much something that should coexist with vp and fp rather than superseed.

Having vp running vertical full screen with three monitors playing originals is the pinacle of virtual pinball recreation (IMO) and vp in particular does an incredible job of that (especially with the amazing quality releases of late). Now that vp is open source it can only improve and as a free platform the vp development community will be hard for any commercial model to compete with. However this commercial model and concept can survive on its own without competing if it stays away from original table recreations.

I really enjoyed Pro Pinball earlier in the day and in a way those tables had that polished feel of a professional pinball design house. I agree that individuals may find it hard to develop to the same sort of level that makes their table more appealing to pay for over the stack of quality free original tables already available for vp. Sure the cross platform will be attractive (to the masses), but vp can go cross platform now that it is open source also. I also havn't even looked at slamit pinball - simply because I love everything that vp offers. it hasn't interested me to look elsewhere. Even some of FP's amazing originals were good for all of 5 minutes (perhaps a bit harsh) before gravitating back to the vp originals. So much development time went into these (when they were being physically built) which would be hard for any original virtual table creator to make at the same level of depth and quality (although not impossible of course).

What would be dissapointing is losing some of the talented vp table designers we have here to spend all their time on commercial tables leaving the community to slow down and at worse fail. However, if this new product doesn't attempt to play originals then authors who release quality free vp tables can only serve to get themselves recognised and attract potential buyers to their commercial originals through this platform. So perhaps a way there where the existing free vp community can assist devs in making some money on the side with their creations through increased exposure of their vp tables.

As already stated the model requires careful thought and I'm all for commercial entities making a profit on an excellent product. It would be interesting to know what real interest their would be in the broader market for high quality pinball games outside of the people that play vp (and fp). My limited perception would be that the general market would be very small. That is somewhat underscored by the complete absence of products such as pro pinball for many years - although I'm sure through their achievements with slamit pinball they have a better understanding of that broader market today (otherwise this wouldn't be on the drawing board as a commercial concept).

Bottom-line, this seems like interesting news of a commercial product as long as it doesn't attempt to compete with vp. Very hard for any product to compete with a free platform anyway without raising the bar to dizzying new heights. I can't see that happening now especially with vp being open source. If vp wasn't open source I could see devs wanting to jump on board to get a much better editor to work with. Also (as already stated) the licensing for originals in such a commercial product could be problematic (although again not impossible to deal with).

Keep it separate and don't cross boundaries with what vp already does (and will continue to do) and this could work.

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