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Can VPX do Anaglyph 3D?


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#1 wiesshund

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 10:16 PM

Can VPX do Anaglyph 3D?

I see that it can do some different shutter glass etc types of 3D on capable TV's

Would it be possible to get it to do Anaglyph?

 

I found an old pair of anaglyph glasses in my desk, so was playing with a few games that have that option
and cool thing i found is screen orientation does not matter at all.

 

Thought it maybe would be kind of neat for VPX as all it requires is a pair of 3 dollar glasses or clipons

 


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#2 mrjcrane

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 10:25 PM

Can VPX do Anaglyph 3D?

I see that it can do some different shutter glass etc types of 3D on capable TV's

Would it be possible to get it to do Anaglyph?

 

I found an old pair of anaglyph glasses in my desk, so was playing with a few games that have that option
and cool thing i found is screen orientation does not matter at all.

 

Thought it maybe would be kind of neat for VPX as all it requires is a pair of 3 dollar glasses or clipons

 

I was experimenting with that last week. I loaded an Anaglyph as the table image on a blank table. Since I have the glasses as well, I found that black and white or monochrome images looked a little better than color images. Also simpler, less detailed images were better than busy or complicated images. So since VPX developers keep creating better and better table graphics each time a table is refined and released, the Anaglyph idea seemed to be a step backwards for me. But if you make something cool, I'll offer to be a tester.



#3 wiesshund

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Posted 07 November 2021 - 12:37 AM

 

Can VPX do Anaglyph 3D?

I see that it can do some different shutter glass etc types of 3D on capable TV's

Would it be possible to get it to do Anaglyph?

 

I found an old pair of anaglyph glasses in my desk, so was playing with a few games that have that option
and cool thing i found is screen orientation does not matter at all.

 

Thought it maybe would be kind of neat for VPX as all it requires is a pair of 3 dollar glasses or clipons

 

I was experimenting with that last week. I loaded an Anaglyph as the table image on a blank table. Since I have the glasses as well, I found that black and white or monochrome images looked a little better than color images. Also simpler, less detailed images were better than busy or complicated images. So since VPX developers keep creating better and better table graphics each time a table is refined and released, the Anaglyph idea seemed to be a step backwards for me. But if you make something cool, I'll offer to be a tester.

 

 

 

Well i meant the graphics engine rather than table images themselves, can not get proper separation that way.

 

It does greyscale/shuttered stereo vision, so was wondering if it might be capable of doing red/cyan anaglyph.

I was playing with it in FP as well as some other things
Live for Speed and Java Minecraft v1.12.2

And aside from the glasses i have being paper and cellophane, and like 35 years old, and not exactly bright and clear any more
it worked really well.

Well enough that i actually wonder why the idea was given up on over time
 


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#4 Gravy

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Posted 07 November 2021 - 12:38 AM

I remember discussing this about ten years ago, and at the time there was apparently some support in nvidia drivers for anaglyph (not sure if still supported). Future Pinball does have 3D anaglyph support using BAM.

 

https://www.vpforums...showtopic=13522

Maybe there is some software that will take a side by side or interlaced image and convert to anaglyph on the fly in realtime?


Just found this thread which may be worth a read 

https://www.mtbs3d.c...pic.php?t=25360


Edited by Gravy, 07 November 2021 - 12:43 AM.

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#5 wiesshund

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Posted 07 November 2021 - 03:05 AM

FP/BAM works, it doesnt care if you have an nvidia card i dont think or no card at all, since it works on laptop with no GPU

and doesnt even cause a change in frame rates

 

looks really good too after some adjusting and fine tuning

and discounting the pretty crappy pair of glasses i am using, they are not bright and clear anymore, they are looking to retire to working part time as welding glasses

but i mean they came from the premier of jurassic park, with this little promo pack you got with your tickets, so quality is suspect to begin with.
But quality/clarity of the optics aside, it was almost creepy how well it actually worked
 

If i could have gotten the ball to be round, and the table to stop tilting on its own it would have been awesome

 

If VPX could do that, i think i'd leave it that way 24/7

 

I could only find 2 other remotely modern games that used it
Live for Speed, which once set up for a realistic cockpit with head jarring and all was down right scarry

 

And minecraft, which seems to have remove the feature in all recent version but exists in version 1.12.2
And while the game itself is kind of blah, enabling 3d anaglyph and tunneling down into the bowls of the block world

was really freaky.

 

As a game dev, i would have wanted to implement that in titles where it made sense


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#6 mrjcrane

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Posted 07 November 2021 - 06:16 PM

Interesting .... so just some ideas, since VPX can handle VR Rooms, assuming the a different image is sent to each eye on the Oculus and if the VPX engine or the Graphic Card can present an Anaglyph then in theory it sounds plausible. Just not sure how you would design the table graphics to present Anaglyph images out to the Oculus. 

 

For FP tables, I'm guessing BAM + the Kinect could yield the same effect, just without the glasses.


Edited by mrjcrane, 07 November 2021 - 06:18 PM.


#7 wiesshund

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Posted 07 November 2021 - 06:58 PM

Interesting .... so just some ideas, since VPX can handle VR Rooms, assuming the a different image is sent to each eye on the Oculus and if the VPX engine or the Graphic Card can present an Anaglyph then in theory it sounds plausible. Just not sure how you would design the table graphics to present Anaglyph images out to the Oculus. 

 

For FP tables, I'm guessing BAM + the Kinect could yield the same effect, just without the glasses.

FP+BAM does anaglyph, it does some other 3D/VR things but as i dont have anything to display those on, i didn't really look

does not require any special table design.
The kinect or similar device just gets me head tracking, which is kind of annoying actually

 

Not sure why you would want anaglyph out of the vr headset? it is already doing a different form of stereo 3d

stereo 3d over stereo 3d probably wont work well


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#8 Gravy

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Posted 07 November 2021 - 11:31 PM

Ok... looks like this may now be a possibility using reshade and a 3D depth shader package addon. I have found this to be a more accurate 3D rendering method compared to the new inbuilt anaglyph 3D modes of VPX 10.7 albeit it at the expense of a FPS reduction, so use whatever method works best for you (VPX inbuilt 3D or superdepth3D)

Here's a quick tutorial of how to install:

Firstly go grab reshade from https://reshade.me/

Open it up and point it to vpx executable, choose DirectX 9 as the rendering API (I assume VPX still uses 9 and not 10?? DirectX 9 mode seems to work).

Select the "depth3d by bluskydefender" effects package when installing. Proceed to install. (one user mentioned they needed to restart after installing but I don't recall needing to do this).

Open a table in VPX. Do not select any of the inbuilt 3D modes in VPX editor as reshade will now handle the 3D effect.

Reshade should pop up a message when you start to play the table to show it is active. I have found that whilst this message is displayed the framerate may drop a little and I have notified the Superdepth3D coder about this issue.

Press HOME on your keyboard to open and close the reshade UI to adjust settings (suggest reading the tutorial that it presents to you first run).

Make sure the Superdepth3d shader is ticked in the list.

Scroll down to Superdepth3d attributes under "Edit global preprocessor definitions" and look for "stereoscopic options/3D display mode" then select an anaglyph 3D mode that matches your glass lens colours (or 3D TV if you have one).

If you are running a cabinet and Windows monitor is set to landscape mode, select "Swap 3D Axis".

Depending on whether your screen is physically rotated left or right, cabinet users may need to select "Swap eyes". If your tables are usually set to 270 degrees then select this setting.

You can also tick the "Displaydepth" shader in reshade UI to help with testing whether the depth is going to be correct.

Also try playing with the divergence and separation settings for increasing depth. Note that increasing separation can result in lower framerate, you may also need to adjust the ZPD setting after changing separation to bring the images back together.

Note that the order in which you add additional shaders can have different effects, they appear to be additive based on order of selection. So I suggested turning on Superdepth3D as the last step if you added any other colour adjustment shaders (HDR shader etc). For instance, if you want to make the table monochrome, select the monochrome shader first, adjust the colour level back to 0, THEN apply the Superdepth3D shader or else the 3D wont work.

Once you have all your reshade settings set to your liking, select the performance mode checkbox at the bottom right of the Reshade UI menu to gain a few extra FPS.

Press Home keyboard key to hide reshade UI. You can also set up a shortcut key in reshade to switch the effect on and off when in game, very useful if you don't want to use 3D for all tables. To set this key, go to Settings tab in reshade, then look under "General" for "Effect Toggle Key" and set it to whatever key you want, I have mine set to asterix key on keyboard numberpad.

Keep in mind that this will now apply to all tables and 3D will be enabled by default unless you turn the shader off by deselecting it in the shader list. It is possible to still have the shader selected but not startup automatically in 3D mode by editing the reshade.ini file, see Scutter's handy post for more info on how to do this at https://www.vpforums...=48019&p=499928

To uninstall Reshade, run the Reshade installer again on the VPX exe then it will give you the option to either update or uninstall it a little further into the install process.
 

You may find that the screen appears darker in 3D mode, especially with amber/bloue glasses. Aside from increasing the brightness / contrast of your screen using it's inbuilt settings, if you install Reshade you can bump up the intensity/brightness using the included shaders for HDR, Levels, Technicolor, Vibrance etc. You can also make any table instantly black and white using the monochrome shader which looks amazing in 3D if you like the black and white style. You can set up a hotkey in Reshade to turn effects on and off so that whenever you have the 3D mode of Superdepth 3D activated, all the other shader effects activate at the same time. Keep in mind that shaders tend to introduce a reduction in framerate, especially if you use several at once, so you may need a fast rig or reduce your graphics res/detail to compensate.
 
Another option it to try doubling the "light emission scale" in the table properties/Lights tab. Lowering the "light height" can also help.

Reshade can do a hell of a lot of shader effects, so this may really give some tables a bit of extra shine/effects that are not normally possible in VPX. It's also great for adding CRT effects to any pixel/retro style games or older PC games that you want to make look more like their retro console versions. I tried it on Outrun 2006 Coast to Coast and it really made the game pop and felt like I was playing on the arcade machine.
 


Edited by Gravy, 04 June 2022 - 01:11 AM.

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#9 BrandonLaw

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Posted 08 November 2021 - 10:12 AM

I've used reshade in the past and what a great idea for VPX.  I hadn't thought about using it and would entertain seeing a difference.


"S...O...S"  /repeat


#10 TerryRed

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Posted 08 November 2021 - 12:35 PM

Didn't the guy who made all those FSS mods use reshade, or something like it?


Edited by TerryRed, 08 November 2021 - 12:35 PM.


#11 Gravy

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Posted 08 November 2021 - 01:20 PM

Didn't the guy who made all those FSS mods use reshade, or something like it?

I just did a search for reshade in the forums and came across this thread where Rawnei describes how he is using it, is that who you meant? https://www.vpforums...=reshade&page=4


Edited by Gravy, 08 November 2021 - 01:20 PM.

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#12 Gravy

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Posted 08 November 2021 - 02:28 PM

Did a bit of testing and it looks like Reshade doesnt support the ability to rotate the angle of the 3D separation, so whilst it should work ok for playing tables in desktop mode, cabinet mode could be an issue unless you set your monitor to portrait view in windows and adjust the table's cabinet POV accordingly to fill the screen.


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#13 wiesshund

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 12:01 AM

Did a bit of testing and it looks like Reshade doesnt support the ability to rotate the angle of the 3D separation, so whilst it should work ok for playing tables in desktop mode, cabinet mode could be an issue unless you set your monitor to portrait view in windows and adjust the table's cabinet POV accordingly to fill the screen.

 

that is not a problem :)


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#14 Gravy

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 12:08 AM

 

and cool thing i found is screen orientation does not matter at all.

 

I haven't got a pair of anaglyph glasses to test out whether orientation matters with regards to anaglyph, but my feeling is if the separation is horizontal and then you rotate the monitor to portrait orientation the separation then naturally becomes vertical. Are you saying that this does not matter? I'm having a hard time getting my head around that but if this is correct then that is great news.

If you haven't already read my comment above about using reshade to achieve anaglyph 3d then scroll up a few posts.

 

Edit: Seems you were posting at the same time as me.

Does rotating the monitor have any weird effect on the 3D depth of the image, as I said, I'm having trouble understanding how the images that were previously side by side somehow automatically just work when they are then placed over/under.

By the way, I dont think all anaglyph 3d is created equal, some lens colour combinations work better than others to retain a wider colour range in 3D mode, I'll do a bit more reading.


Edited by Gravy, 09 November 2021 - 12:18 AM.

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#15 wiesshund

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 01:10 AM

Tested a couple tables real quick

Keeping in mind that the old glasses i have to play with are very much less than optimal
(when you put them on in a bright room, its like someone killed half the lights)

and i tested on my laptop, which has kind of a terrible view angle.

 

But even with those 2 things going on, it worked good!

 

I put the table in cab mode 0 rotation, and ran windows in portrait mode

and BOOM! 3d pinball with no expensive headgear

 

Considering i can get like 4 pairs of  red/cyan or anachrome glasses for about 9 bucks
This might be a thing.

 

running it or not running it is as simple as renaming

its d3d9.dll to something like notrun-d3d9.dll
 

Going to have to test it on my desktop where there is a better bigger screen with plenty of viewing angle


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#16 wiesshund

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 01:30 AM

 

Does rotating the monitor have any weird effect on the 3D depth of the image, as I said, I'm having trouble understanding how the images that were previously side by side somehow automatically just work when they are then placed over/under.

By the way, I dont think all anaglyph 3d is created equal, some lens colour combinations work better than others to retain a wider colour range in 3D mode, I'll do a bit more reading.

 

 

FP does this internally so it rotates the anaglyph with the table rotation
Reshade does not know you are doing this, so yes i ran windows in portrait mode since reshade does not appear to have a rotation setting
If i had a cab, OS would be rotated anyways, and is no big deal to rotate OS on my PC's anyways, just a hot key combo and poof done.

 

I think all anaglyph is a little bastardizing of colors, not really avoidable

red/cyan are the easiest glasses to find, have to get ones with proper color grade of course, them come in clip overs too

green/magenta is next easiest, not sure on clip overs

Anachrome is a little harder to find, red and blue but different color values, cant find clip overs

Color3D Green/Yellow, you can get easily, but only in paper/cardboard format, is supposedly the least color bastardizing

 

Need decent glasses that are optically clear, my nearly half a century old pair of cardboard ones are not terribly optically clear any more
so they have an assload of light reduction going on, but they work well enough to see that it may be worth buying a pair of decent glasses to play around with

 

I did not try turning up the table's environmental cause i dont wanna mess with the tables until i am
1) trying them on a real screen that has an over abundance of brightness (my laptop does not)
2) Trying them with a pair of decent glasses

3) taking the time to look as what adjustments reshade offers


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#17 Gravy

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 01:35 AM

Tested a couple tables real quick

Keeping in mind that the old glasses i have to play with are very much less than optimal
(when you put them on in a bright room, its like someone killed half the lights)

and i tested on my laptop, which has kind of a terrible view angle.

 

But even with those 2 things going on, it worked good!

 

I put the table in cab mode 0 rotation, and ran windows in portrait mode

and BOOM! 3d pinball with no expensive headgear

 

Considering i can get like 4 pairs of  red/cyan or anachrome glasses for about 9 bucks
This might be a thing.

 

running it or not running it is as simple as renaming

its d3d9.dll to something like notrun-d3d9.dll
 

Going to have to test it on my desktop where there is a better bigger screen with plenty of viewing angle

It is a bit exciting isn't it.... I'm sussing out some slightly better lens colour combinations for colour preservation, seems like the green/magenta or  blue/amber combos are going to give better colour reproduction. I have a Panasonic active 3D plasma in lounge room but its 60 inch and not really suitable to lay on its back for testing. Active 3d also gives me a headache so this will be an interesting project.

You can disable reshade in game by simple setting up a shortcut in the reshade UI to switch effects on/off.

So given that you are now testing in windows portrait mode, are you now saying that there are issues regarding the orientation? Edit: Looks like you just answered this above.



 


Reshade has plenty of ways to bump up the colours/vibrance so that may help.

I'm looking at these guys for 3D glasses, might order a few different colour pairs at same time for testing.

https://www.aliexpre...2840546771.html

Im not sure, but some of those frames look like you may be able to swap lens from left to right if they are the same shape, although reshade allows you to just do that at the click of a button.

Green yellow glasses dont appear to be supported by reshade. Did you mean Blue/Amber colorcode?


Edited by Gravy, 11 November 2021 - 11:36 PM.

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#18 Gravy

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 02:19 AM

Hmmmm, I'm having an issue where the table will not display if I am in portrait windows mode. Backglass appears on backglass screen and DMD appears on playfield screen but the rest of my desktop just shows through and the playfield is nowhere to be seen.

Fairly sure I've run in rotated mode before for some FSS tables and it has worked ok. Not sure if it is related to having reshade installed?

Any suggestions?


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#19 wiesshund

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 02:33 AM

Hmmmm, I'm having an issue where the table will not display if I am in portrait windows mode. Backglass appears on backglass screen and DMD appears on playfield screen but the rest of my desktop just shows through and the playfield is nowhere to be seen.

Fairly sure I've run in rotated mode before for some FSS tables and it has worked ok. Not sure if it is related to having reshade installed?

Any suggestions?

 

Doubtful, reshade does not come into play in that aspect

 

Once you rotate the OS, open VPX, open prefs, video
note that it shows the now rotated resolution, click OK

now pick a table, and have VPX load it in editor

click backglass button in editor
Go to POV properties uncheck test desktop
pick full screen from dropdown
then set the X Y rotation to 0 (default is 270

Dont save table just yet, just launch the table

 

(When you unrotate OS, open vpx, go to video prefs, not proper resolution and click OK)


 

Green yellow glasses dont appear to be supported by reshade. Did you mean Blue/Amber colorcode?

 

yes meant cyan/yellow

 

have not loaded or touched any other shaders in reshade yet, so not sure what it has for brightness/colors
laptop not optimal for tinkering with that, it does not do overly abundant brightness to begin with

I would have to swap for the 14" 1600x900 gloss finish screen, which needs a different LVDS ribbon cable but this laptop is old,

it does not warrant throwing money at it to do that
1600x900 @ 14" is a joke for the most part, all you get is little stuff you cant see, that is now brighter and smaller, and the view angle

is still crapola LOL


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#20 Gravy

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 02:49 AM

Thanks, yeah that was my process I think but there must some other issue (in my copy of 10.6). I tried installing reshade onto my other 10.7 version which I have in another folder and the rotation worked ok in that.

I'm thinking I might drop a note to the depth3d developer to see if he is interested in adding an option to config the rotation directly in reshade rather than us having to modify each and every POV for a rotated windows setup.

The anaglyph takes a big hit on my old laptop, but I'm sure it would be fine for newer PCs.


Edit: Have sent a message to the developer on reshade forum https://reshade.me/f...tart=1600#42018

Feel free to add to the conversation.


Edited by Gravy, 09 November 2021 - 03:20 AM.

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