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Fine tuning SSF?

SSF VPX

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#1 topper2k

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 12:41 PM

===================
Updated 3/1/2021
===================
 
I'm updating the top of this thread with what I've learned as I learn it. My hope is to make it easier for others to find this info by putting it in one place. This is very basic. It is intended for noobs like me setting up SSF for the first time. This assumes you've already installed your exciters and amps and have things basically working. If you don't have SSF working yet, look for one of the very excellent SSF setup guides out there and then come back.
 
How to share your subwoofer between table and backglass when using the "Rob method."
 
First of all, you need to install Equalizer APO and then PeaceUI. I don't think you actually need to do anything in EQAPO, but PeaceUI needs EQAPO installed in order to work.
 
This is all copied from this post. Check it out if you need more info.
 
When you open PeaceUI, start by selecting "Settings" then "Startup" and make sure PeaceUI is set to open when Windows loads. There's also a setting that tells Peace to run in the system tray, you'll want to check that too. Then, back in the main window, click the "Commands" button on the right. That's where you'll enter the commands below.
 
Option 1: If you're using a 2.1 amp for your backglass and sub
 
 

Turn the sub channel on in the Windows speaker config even though youre not using it. This gives you a channel where you can filter the sub-bass before mixing it back with L+R.

 
 

Then use these commands in PeaceUI. 

 

In the top box in the Commands window that says "Enter commands that are processed before your equalizer configuration" enter the following:

 

Copy: SUB=0.25*RL+0.25*RR+0.25*SL+0.25*SR

Channel: SUB

Filter 0: ON LP Fc 150 Hz

 

In the bottom box in the Commands window that says "Enter commands that are processed after your equalizer configuration" enter the following:

 

Copy: L=0.50*L+SUB

Copy: R=0.50*R+SUB

 
Option 2: If you are using the sub out on your 7.1 sound card to feed your sub, use these settings:
 
 

In the top box in the Commands window that says "Enter commands that are processed before your equalizer configuration" enter the following:

 

Copy: SUB=0.25*RL+0.25*RR+0.25*SL+0.25*SR+0.15*L+0.15*R

Channel: SUB

Filter 0: ON LP Fc 150 Hz

 

In the bottom box in the Commands window that says "Enter commands that are processed after your equalizer configuration" enter the following:

 

Channel: L R

Filter 0: ON HP Fc 150 Hz

 
Here's a quick test you can do to verify that the sub is shared between backglass and table.
 
Using the Sound Manager in VPX
 
Open VPX and load a table in the editor. Select Table->Sound Manager (or press F2).
 
BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE: Backup the default sounds for the table.

  • Select all the sound
  • Click "Export"
  • Save them to a folder on your hard drive

This way you can always go back without having to uninstall and reinstall the table.
 

 

To replace a sound (like if you don't like the sound of the flippers on a particular table and want to copy the flipper sound from another table)
 

 

Select the sound and click "Play" to make sure you've got the right one. Then select "Reimport From" and browse to the sound you prefer.

 

Pro tip: Start a folder called something like "Fav Sounds." When you find flipper sounds or jet bumper sounds you really like in a table, export them to that folder. Then when you encounter a table with less than ideal sounds, you can easily import your favorites. You might want to save a couple variants of some sounds (not all flippers or slingshots sound the same, that's part of what gives a table it's own unique character).

 

To move a sound or make it louder/quieter
 

 

Select the sound and click "Position."

 

Here you can move sounds left/right and forward/back based on where your exciters are and what feels right on the table. You can also adjust the overall volume (like if your jet bumpers are too loud for example). 

 
How to make the ball rolling sound louder in VPX
 
You might think the sound manager is a good place to make this change, but it isn't. The loudness of the ball sound changes depending on how fast it is going. Sound manager doesn't account for that. Instead, you need to edit a line in the table script that calculates the volume of the sound.
 
 

First of all, start with a table that has a good, loud ball rolling sound sample. Jaws and Theater of Magic are frequently recommended. I found Simpsons Party Pinball to be pretty good too.

 

Export that good sound sample and save it to your computer. Then open the table you want to change and use "reimport from" to replace that sound. (See "Using the Sound Manager" above.)

 

Note: you'll likely see a bunch of different ball rolling samples in Sound Manager. I've read that there's really only 1 sample (and they sure do all sound the same). I'm not sure why Sound Manager shows multiple copies, but there must be a good reason, because every table is like this. I export and import every single ball rolling sound. It's a little tedious (I think Simpsons Party Pinball has 14 ball rolling entries). But I don't really understand what's happening here and I'd just rather cover my basses.

 

Now open the script window in VPX and look for code similar to what's below. It can be in a different place in every table and can have a different value where this says "2000". (I use ctrl+f to open the finder, then search for "Vol =").

 


Function Vol(ball) ' Calculates the Volume of the sound based on the ball speed

    Vol = Csng(BallVel(ball) ^2 / 2000)

End Function

 

To change the volume of the ball rolling sound you change that "2000" (or whatever it is in your script) number. Basically you make that number smaller to increase volume and larger to decrease volume. But it's important to start with a good sound. Boosting a weak sample won't have much of an effect. I find that with a good sound sample, I still want this around 500 or 1000. But I really like to hear the ball's position on the table.

 

Save the table once you have the sound the way you want it.

 

PinVol Now includes SSF
 
PinVol is a super handy utility developed by MJR that's been around for a while. As of January 2021, it includes some features that are particularly useful for SSF. (Note that for a while there was a program known as PinVolSSF. The features developed in PinVolSSF are now incorporated in PinVol. So PinVol=PinVolSSF.)

 

Imagine PinVol like three volume knobs. One knob for your backglass speakers, one for your front exciters, and one for your rear exciters. This allows you to quickly and easily balance out your table and backglass sounds and save those settings on a per-table basis.

 

http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/PinVol.html

 
Get THUMP in the SSF Facebook Group
 
Yep, there's a Facebook group for SSF: https://www.facebook...ups/SSFeedback/ I highly recommend you join it. It's a great place to get quick answers to questions. An added enticement is that there is at least one SSF tool (THUMP) being beta tested by a developer. At the moment, you can only get it through the group.

THUMP is a replacement/substitution for SSF Impactor. (I haven't gone into SSF Impactor in this thread because I found the documentation has a high barrier to entry and I haven't tried to get it to work yet.)
 
THUMP adds what can best be described as a percussive effect to your table sounds. It's basically an eq configuration/bass enhancement that runs in EQ APO (which you already installed to share your subwoofer, right?). But that sells the effect a little short. It really increases that tactile feel you get from SSF. It's super easy to install and use. You just run the .exe, pick a preset and click the big "on" button. You don't even have to do anything to ensure it loads when your system boots, it just takes care of business in the background via EQ APO.
 
Version 1.1 was released to the SSF Facebook group in July 2020. You can find it here (after joining the group): https://m.facebook.c...58019497810393/
 
Adding SSF to Pinball FX3
 
To get SSF working in Pinball FX3 you need three things.

  • DOFLinx (which also requires Direct Output Framework R3++, which you might already have depending on when you installed your software)
  • PinUp Player
  • SSF for FX3 PupPacks

There's way too much to get into here for getting all three of these working. For DOFLinx I recommend (as of 7/12/2020) TerryRed's DOFLinx software essentials video. Terry's videos usually have a sort of table of contents in the description. Pay attention to it on this one. You almost certainly don't need the entire video. Terry's made it pretty easy to jump to just the parts you need. An added benefit of setting up DOFLinx is that your LEDs (and I guess any other DOF toys you have) will work in FX3 too.
 
Lot's of good documentation on PinUp Player can be found here: https://www.nailbust...ipinup/doku.php and in Nailbuster's walkthrough video. Note that you don't have to install PinUpPopper. Popper and the PinUp player work together, but you can install just the player and get SSF working in FX3 (you can also then use PupPacks with your tables if you want).
 
Once you have those two pieces of software running, you just need to grab the FX3 SSF PupPacks here and put them with your other PinUp PupPacks. This is still pretty new and consequently not all the FX3 tables have custom PupPacks. That means you're going to want to download the PupPacks labeled "default triggers" (this makes all the tables work with generic sounds/positioning) and the one labeled "completed FX3 SSF Pup Packs" (that has all the tables that have been customized).
 
======================================
Original post below
======================================
 
Hey all!

I'm adding SSF to my cabinet and want to know more about fine tuning SSF both for my cab in general and for individual tables (primarily VPX).

There are some great basic setup guides out there (I followed MajorFrency's) but not much on fine tuning.

The kinds of things I'd like to know more about are:

How to adjust the volume of individual sounds (like the ball rolling across the table).

How to swap specific sounds in VPX sound manager.

How to position sounds. Like if I want more separation between my flippers.

I plan on using what's commonly called the "Rob method" (single shared sub). The setup guides mention a custom APO config file for this. But I don't see anything about where to get that file, what to put in it, or where to save it.

_______________________

It's not that there's nothing out there about these topics, but it's spread out in comments on multiple different threads. The guides seem to stop after you've connected your amps to your exciters.

I'd like to collect that kind of info here in a single thread.


Edited by topper2k, 01 March 2021 - 02:49 PM.


#2 nickbuol

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 01:15 PM

UPDATED:  Highlighted some key words for emphasis...  Not saying that this is a perfect fit, but is intended as a starting point...

 

Seems like a lot of that can be handled by the Sound Manager within VPX.   It allows you to change individual sound volume, plus also change the positioning on the particular table...  more to the front or rear, plus left and right.  Lets say that you have a table that you are playing and it has pop bumpers in the upper right of the playfield. 

In VPX you open the Sound Manager, find the sound(s) that is/are used for the pop bumpers (highlight it and click the Play button to verify). 

Once located and verified, click the Position button.

You have left and right balance at the top, Front to Rear plus volume level on the right.

You also can toggle that sound between the playfield and backglass (Some tables have all sounds set to go to the backglass, so you can change that here or on the main Sound Manager screen with the Toggle BG Out button.)

There is a test button as well.

 

So in my example above, I would put the pop bumper sounds close to the rear and most of the way to the right.  If they are a little too loud, I would decrease the volume (up is quieter,down is louder).  

 

Click OK and move on to the next sound. 

 

Be sure to save the table file after making your changes.


Edited by nickbuol, 28 May 2020 - 01:58 PM.


#3 topper2k

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 04:45 PM

Thanks Nick.

 

Here's another method I found on the SSF Facebook group. This applies to the ball rolling sounds specifically. Since there are multiple ball rolling sounds listed in the VPX sound manager, this seems like a more efficient way to increase all of them.

 

In the table script look for:

Vol = Csng(BallVel(ball) ^2 / xxxx)

The xxx in this function makes it louder - the lower the xxx value is the louder it will be. 2000 is a common number, but 1000 or 500 will make it louder.

 

There's also a lot of discussion in that group about using EqualizerAPO and PeaceUI to manipulate table sounds. For one thing, it's used to share the subwoofer between backglass and table when you're only using one sub. But it sounds like there's a lot more you can do. I haven't tried this yet and don't really understand it.



#4 Thalamus

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 05:16 PM

Nickbuoi' answer isn't wrong, but, also isn't 100% correct in many ways. I've wondered, but, did never test it before the 007 table was released. For that table, the sound manager was used to move the sound with and that ending up overriding what was in the script. So, don't use sound manager for anything that isn't fixed on the table. Pr. example, the flippers. If you want them separated by left and right, you will have to have two different samples. Left and Right. If you use the scripted solution, you can tell in the script where to play the sample, LeftFlipper, LeftUpperFlipper, RightFlipper or whatever you want, as long as the object exists and has a x and y coordinate you should be ok.

 

How to adjust the ball rolling sound is something that has been asked a few times already. My preferred answer is. Download the JAWS table, export all the JP ballrolling0-13 samples to a folder and use those to re-import into other tables. Then adjust the volume via this code.

 

Function Vol(ball) ' Calculates the Volume of the sound based on the ball speed
  Vol = Csng(BallVel(ball) ^2 / 2000)
End Function

This is math and what it basically is trying to do is to not play the sample at the same volume all the time, but depending on the ball speed. The 2000 is reducing the sample. After importing the samples I've mentioned, the 2000 might very well be too low number, or maybe not. It kind of depends on how high you want heard the ball. In general I would say, you will normally heard a ball better on a EM than on a SS or newer, those newer machines have other sounds like call outs and music.

 

I recommend that you look at the scripts that are in the github repo. There I've made most of this is bit easier to use in that the number is a variable, controlled in the start of the table. My second reasoning for using those JAWS samples is that it is easier to adjust higher sounding samples, than to try to increase them via the script. VP used a float between 0 and 1 to control the volume with and if the samples are too low, you sometime end up wanting them to go over 1, but, that is where the limit of playsound lies. Adjusting them the other way is easier - 0.0001 is valid, 1.1 isn't. Well, it won't break, but, it would sound exatly the same as 1, 2, 5 or whatever number you use.

 

Other sounds, like bumpers, can be fixed, and sounds the same if the ball comes slow or fast. So, it is a valid way of doing it like nickbuoi explains it. They don't move on the table, but again, using a script just is easier.

 

Swap the sound - is best done by picking the sound via sound manager, then pressing the "Reimport from". Why ? because it will always replace the sample by the "alias" name. What is alias name ? Lets say I created a file 1.wav - I import into VP, I realize taht 1.wav is a stupid name, because I soon want to import 2.wav and I can't remember what those samples actually sounds like. So, I rename the 1.wav in sound manager to bumper and the 2.wav to flipper. But, if I want one day to replace those sounds, they will be exported as their original names 1.wav and 2.wav and I'm back to now knowing which is which. ( it is actually now possible to fix that by ticking the use name on export, but, if you need to ask this question - just do it this way at least until you've done it a few times and understand how it really works )

 

Again, swapping sounds, I recommend importing sounds that have a higher gain setting instead of lower ones, for the reason above.

 

Flippers are pretty close to each other almost on all tables. You will get a better result if the left flipper, has a sound that is recorded so that the sample itself comes more out of the left channel. Of course the opposite for the right. You can also code this and just tell that the flipper sound should come from the switch on the right and left inlane.

 

Hope this answers some of your questions.



#5 topper2k

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 07:44 PM

Thanks Thalamus! Just to be sure I know which table sounds you're suggesting as a starting point, this Jaws table for VPX would be a good option? https://vpinball.com...-pinball-build/

 

And which github repo are you referring to? (Sorry I'm a self-acknowledged noob).


Edited by topper2k, 29 May 2020 - 02:04 AM.


#6 Thalamus

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Posted 27 May 2020 - 08:25 PM

That's the one yes. And the github is a collection of several hundred of tables that was made pre 10.4 where DjRobX made the code so we could get the 9th parameter to playsound, so we could start to use x AND y.  https://github.com/s...pxtable_scripts - read the info. It isn't completely dead, I sometime add or fix things to it. Same goes for Arngrim, but we both try to work with the table authors to get it into the tables instead of needing to put it up there. Some things are not ONLY ssf improvements. Last week I believe it was, UncleWilly sent me a fix for Big Bang Bar that I've updated. ( the mod of that table has this fix - but, the bigus1 code hasn't, maybe for next version ? )

 

You have to look at the github as a rough but working improvements. With good samples, from eg. TOM, you should be able to make many tables sound much better in that those samples are the best every made for VP. Also, if you are using 10.6 ( still I recommend that for players ), then you should download 10.7 beta. and take all the scripts that are in that and overwrite all that you've got in your current vp scripts folder. Doing so, will give you even better ssf. This is because Michaels made code updates to core.vbs implementing what Rob did in 10.4. Obviously, the other devs where on it too ;)


Edited by Thalamus, 27 May 2020 - 08:28 PM.


#7 nickbuol

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Posted 28 May 2020 - 01:59 PM

Yeah, sorry, my intent was to cover usage of the Sound Manager as a basic tool to use to play with things.   I added a note to my post to emphasize a couple of words for anyone coming across this in the future.  Sorry to have bothered everyone.



#8 topper2k

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 12:38 PM

Does anyone have instructions on how to share the sub between table and backglass when using the Rob method? I know Equalizer APO and PeaceUI are involved, but I need to know more about how to set that up.

#9 topper2k

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 04:00 AM

I was working on the SSF for a table and thought I was getting it dialed in pretty well. So I asked my spouse to come play it and give me her opinion. (Note, she had only played the cabinet pre-SSF a couple times.) She's playing it and having fun, but I can tell she's humoring me about the SSF. Finally she admits, "Yeah I'm sorry hon, I can sort of tell, but not really."

 

Of course I was a little crestfallen. Then I turned the SSF off and had her play with just the backglass speakers. Her reaction was totally different. Immediately she could tell the difference between having SSF and not having SSF. And obviously she much preferred having the SSF on.

 

This got me thinking, when SSF is working properly, it doesn't feel like anything is happening. Basically, it feels like you're playing pinball. If you notice the SSF, then something isn't right. It should feel natural.

 

When I'm playing, I can feel everything that happens on the table in my fingers, but I'm looking for it. Sometimes it's subtle and sometimes it isn't.

 

Then I started thinking about the latest SSF topic I've been trying to understand, which is sharing the subwoofer between the table and backglass sounds via the Rob method in PeaceUI. The commands are pretty simple. But once installed, I couldn't hear a drastic change. Now I'm realizing that's pretty much right. I don't want to actually notice the sub. That would distract me from the game. But I needed some way to verify that the sub sharing was working. Here's what I figured out.

 

How to verify your subwoofer is being shared between backglass and table.

 

Ok, first of all this isn't rocket science, but I'm dense and it took me a little thinking to come up with a good way to do this. So I'm going to save you the trouble in case you're a little dense too. My 2.1 amp has a knob for master volume, bass crossover frequency, and bass volume. But the bass volume is dependent on the master volume. So I couldn't just turn the volume down on the backglass. Here's what I did instead.

 

Turn your exciter amps all the way down, or disconnect the speaker wires going to the exciters. Don't disconnect the aux cable between the soundcard and amp. You want Windows to still think those channels are there.

 

Then disconnect the wires going to your backbox speakers. Now all that's producing sound is your subwoofer.

 

Load a table and play. If you hear some low thuddy sorts of sounds when big things happen on the table, you're sharing the exciter channels with the subwoofer. Woot! Mission accomplished.

 

You should also hear the lowest frequencies of the music, voices, etc. (the backbox stuff) because the LR channels are still also connected to the sub.

 

I found doing this super helpful in tuning my SSF. Because my 2.1 amp has an adjustable crossover frequency, it was easier to dial this to where I wanted it when I was just listening to the sub. I could hear when things that were a little too bright started to come through the sub, then stop and dial it back a bit. That wasn't as obvious when everything else was blaring at me.

Plus, I just found it really reassuring to hear my table sounds coming through the sub. Now I know for sure it's working and I didn't miss a step in the setup.

 

 



#10 stuj

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 04:03 AM

Hi All, I have been installing SSF in my cab and am now working through the config in the various audio software.  I don't have a facebook account but would like to access the download for PinVolSSF and Thump SSF, have i missed a download link on this site, or is it only available through the facebook group ?

 

Thanks in advance



#11 wiesshund

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 04:08 AM

Only info i have is here

https://www.vpforums...showtopic=44470

 

I can not attest to how well any of it works

 

yes scratch that, it IS this topic


Edited by wiesshund, 12 January 2021 - 04:09 AM.

It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#12 Thalamus

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 04:23 AM

Believe those two mentioned programs are only distributed via FB, unfortunately.



#13 stuj

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 06:21 AM

That’s disappointing to hear, but thanks for the info.  I’m afraid that’s the price ill pay for my privacy



#14 Thalamus

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 06:51 AM

I created a FB account only for pinball related stuff. Very seldom login and always with browser in incognito mode.



#15 wiesshund

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 07:32 AM

I created a FB account only for pinball related stuff. Very seldom login and always with browser in incognito mode.

FB i would almost be tempted to use a TOR browser

almost

LOL


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#16 stuj

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 10:02 PM

Thanks guys for the suggestion, maybe i might do that.  My table sounds are all over the place and would like to use that tool to help.  Just one question about PinVol if I may.  I cant seem to get PinVol to pop up when I press the Vol Up/Down mapped keys through Pinscape.  I did see that the guide on mjrnet mentioned this for pinball x  in order for the pop up to show

 

Fire up the PinballX Settings program and go to the Display Settings screen. Set these options:

  • Window/Full Screen: Windowed
  • Full screen windowed: Yes

The problem is, if I do this the table appears tiny on the screen and throws out the back glass .  Am I missing something ?


Edited by stuj, 15 January 2021 - 10:36 PM.


#17 Thalamus

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 05:47 AM

I'm on PinballY, and for that, the regular PinVol is working as expected. I'm not sure why you are having this problem. You can always download PinballY and see if that fixes you problem. PinballY is able to see that PinballX is installed and re-use the table database without touching it in any way. Btw. none of the mentioned FB only programs is installed on my setup. I think my cab works just fine as is. Well, if I just fix that DOF that is.



#18 wiesshund

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 06:16 AM

Dont know if this is useful to you but

No one has the same idea about sounds as everyone else, and nobody has the same idea about them as i do (So far)

 

I get a table, 1st thing i do is extract all the sound files out (check to use names, or you will be unhappy on reimporting)

once all are extract, i delete all from table.

 

Then i reprocess all of them, i have a particular peak level in mind that i process them against
which basically is loud as hell, but no clipping, i dont like clipping.

The exception is rolling rounds, i dont go nuts on those as no decent machine makes that much sound rolling.

 

I have one other step i do, only because i am retarded like that, you do not have to
Any sound except a sound that is obviously backglass, or artificial effect (pseudo ROM type of sounds, electronic rather than mechanical) which is in stereo,

i convert it to mono.

 

Then i take a romp down the table script and make sure the sounds are specifically called to play as SSF at the location of the noise making object, or the ball
which ever be appropriate.
Yea i even make the plunger sound play specifically at the location of the plunger.
Call it OCD or something.
Not every table needs this, some authors do in fact specify nearly every mechanical play at the location of it's appropriate object.

Then i import the sounds all back in.

 

May sound like a pain, but i do it one time, and then i never even need to touch the volume on the table ever again

and table A winds up the same volume wise as table B and B as C etc, they all wind up being very consistent.

 

As for fooling with the positional stuff, that's just me, you do not have to, i am just anal about a sound coming from the correct perceived spot in virtual 3d space
like i was Lucas THX certifying them or something, which is probably kind of funny seeing as the real thing does not exactly have that kind of sound separation.

 

Nice thing about VPX, you can customize or fine tune something any way you desire


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png


#19 stuj

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 06:45 AM

@wiesshund, WOW that is a lot of work, thanks for thatI’ve been doing some further reading and also came across that method of using Audacity to alter sound files and using the Sound Manager to override, I might look at that if i have a few hours spare :juggle: .  Ive also chanced upon the table scripts that enhance the SSFas well, thank you so much for providing that Thalamus  and for advice in other threads I’ve found .  Well back to it now...



#20 wiesshund

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 07:40 AM

It is less work than it sounds.

I have the audio change mostly set up as presets

i load all the sounds up at the same time

so that just leaves looking for stereo sounds quick and determining if it should be 3d positional, or just a general non mechanical effect

then export everything back out

 

import them all back into the table

 

going through the script is not that bad, you know what you are looking for mostly

flippers, slingshots, bumpers, targets, gates, spinners

 

some tables are a little harder than others
sometimes you have to look at the solenoid callbacks for the sounds trigger
and the table may have no object, that a sound can be directed to, that represents that solenoids location in real life
but like target reset solenoids, one of the targets works good enough for the sound position since the solenoid is pretty much under them

 

so you have to change from a simple solcallback = "sound name" thing, but is not that big a deal really

 

kind of becomes routine after you do a few.

 

And you figure, i dont have a cabinet, nor DOF toys to configure, or addressable LED stuff to set up etc.

 

Sometimes i will fuss around and do other things that take more time.
I dont have a cab, but i do have 7.1 audio and some rather large speakers that 1980 wants back, and generally, i just run everything in 10.7 beta
which can actually leverage 7.1, in full 7.1 fashion for any audio set to backglass rear.
So sometimes i will re-encode stuff as multi channel oog.

I know, it is kind of silly to have the 10 100 and 1000 bells on an EM table bothering to come from specific points in the 3d space of the backglass (which consists of FL FR and Center) and the score reel motor coming from a distinctly different spot, but it's fun for me.

 

I had one of the starwars table flying tie fighters all around the table in movie fashion.
being a rom table they didnt exactly jazz with what the DMD said was going on, but it was a fun experiment.
 

If PUP supports AC3 audio track playback, i could see it on one of terry reds tables.

 

Keep in mind, i do not have 700 tables, pretty sure i have less than 150 and it took a while to get than many


It counts as a cabinet, right?

eVi4DPF.png






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