110 replies to this topic

[gimli246]

Edited May 10,2020
Hopefully the title is enticing enough to try any of the FP tables released in the past year by Slam , Wild , Smoke , blue/shiva, GeorgeH , Nitronimbus , TerryRed and myself. They all are using enhanced BAM features including dynamic flippers described below. BAM continues to evolve and many new features are soon to be released !

Slams Ultimate pro tables are a good place to start

https://speak1970.wi...pinballemporium
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Using Bam we can now dramatically enhance FP flipper physics

The code template is easily pasted into any table

For those interested it is accomplished
With a "prehit " code where BAM anticipates the ball to flipper contact
point and we simply code variable flipper dynamics based on this.

For the adventurous, the template is easily customizable

And we are just beginning to understand the potential.

Dynamic FP coding has unlimited possibilities that I can explain if people are interested.

Please try this new mod and try to let go of your previous assumptions

Cheers...

Addendum Aug 29, 2018
Here is a video where I try to demonstrate:
1.debug mode showing how flipper numbers change depending on contact point
2.accurate flipper targetting
Pay attention to flashing red target lights and accuracy of shots from a cradled position (I am using BAMs flipper testing tool and sometimes I accidently reflexly flick the flipper, so ignore that)
3.At the end I go ahead play the table a little 
https://youtu.be/CqzNKJIsUWc

Edited by gimli246, 11 May 2020 - 12:25 PM.

[chepas]

Deja Vu. You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in Glitter. Do a video and save me bandwidth downloading fake physics.

[gimli246]

What would you like to see in a video ?
Even before this feature, I was so used to FP physics that I could make most of the shots on certain of my favorite tables....I would think that the better way is to try it yourself.
That is why I am pleading for an open mind...
 
Admittedly it is NOT perfect.  But I think it is encouraging enough to start to melt your resistance ? Who knows...this is not Deja vu...it is brand new and really interesting... at least to me
 
Rather than try to apply a carte blanche physic that has no hope of covering all the issues...this is dynamic and the flipper physics are adjusted in real-time based what is happening.
I would call this new....

Edited by gimli246, 06 December 2018 - 06:13 PM.

[chepas]

 

I was so used to FP physics that I could make most of the shots on certain of my favorite table

 

I actually don't believe you here. You should be able to make a shot if on target on a machine, FP never did this very well. All other hacks never worked great either, illusions.

 

 

I'd say a lot of people have seen numerous captures of FP anyway. If there's a difference, we'll see it. That's all trying to say, a bit of video evidence.

 

Do some nudging as well, does the ball just die in flight if you nudge? The slingshots were always terrible too.

[gimli246]

I will try to make a video maybe tomorrow .
This currently is a flipper dynamic mod,
so bumpers and nudge are not involved currently but of course ultimately a "prehit" routine could be applied to any table object..if Ravarcade chooses to enable that

The video will show also debug mode showing predicted flipper contact points and the adjusted flipper speed .

The flipper base contact is zero
and the flipper tip contact is 1

We arbitrarily assigned the fastest flipper speed to the base to hit centre targets

and the tip has slower speeds to hit side targets and orbits.

There is a graduated flipper omega from 43 to 29 based on contact point

Every flipper on table can have its own dynamics

This first version simply involves dynamic flipper omega but we can also similarly adjust friction and elasticity etc...

And these can also be adjusted in response to other parameters as well such as ball speed or the state of any table event or flag...

[gimli246]

I am not sure how to enter code on this site, so that it is easily copy and pasted, but if you are even a little interested then download the latest version of BAM and copy this into your favorite table under "option explicit in script"  and observe the results. 
 
If you play table under debug mode and use manual ball roller with mouse , you will see the contact point assignment as ball rolls over flipper...
 
Code:
Const BAM_VERSION = 0
AddDebugText BAM_VERSION
 
 
' === Dynamic Flipper Settings ===
 
 
Sub BAM_Init()
If BAM_VERSION < 233 then Exit Sub
Set RightFlipperExt      = xBAM.Flipper("RightFlipper")
Set LeftFlipperExt       = xBAM.Flipper("LeftFlipper")
RightFlipperExt.Omega    =         43
RightFlipperExt.SetMaterial       0.4,        0.1,       0.05,      0.065
LeftFlipperExt.Omega     =         43
LeftFlipperExt.SetMaterial       0.4,        0.1,       0.05,      0.065
End Sub
 
 
If BAM_VERSION => 233 then
Dim RightFlipperExt,LeftFlipperExt            ' Needed for BAM
 Dim omegaCorrection
xBAM.BallSpeedLimit = 3000
End If
 
Sub OnPreHitFlipperSettings(FlipperExt)
If BAM_VERSION < 233 then Exit Sub
 OnPreHitFlipperSettings_bounceControl(FlipperExt)
End Sub
 
Sub RightFlipper_prehit()
If BAM_VERSION < 233 then Exit Sub
OnPreHitFlipperSettings(RightFlipperExt)
omegaCorrection = 43 - (RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint * 14) ' Max omega is 43 and min is 28.2. 
If RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint < 0.0 then RightFlipperExt.Omega = 43
If RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint > 1.2 then RightFlipperExt.Omega = 28.2
If (RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint => 0.0) And (RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint =< 1.2) then 
RightFlipperExt.Omega = omegaCorrection
End if
AddDebugText "Right Flipper Speed = " &RightFlipperExt.Omega 
AddDebugText "RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint= " &RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint
 
End Sub
 
Sub LeftFlipper_prehit()
If BAM_VERSION < 233 then Exit Sub
OnPreHitFlipperSettings(LeftFlipperExt)
omegaCorrection = 43 - (LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint * 14)
If LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint < 0.0 then LeftFlipperExt.Omega = 43
If LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint > 1.2 then LeftFlipperExt.Omega = 28.2
If (LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint => 0.0) And (LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint =< 1.2) then 
LeftFlipperExt.Omega = omegaCorrection
End if
AddDebugText "Left Flipper Speed = " &LeftFlipperExt.Omega 
AddDebugText "LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint= " & LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint
 
 
End Sub
 
'Bounce Control (Note that bounce control over rides flipper elasticity listed above. See lines "RightFlipperExt.Omega ="/"RightFlipperExt.Omega=")
Sub OnPreHitFlipperSettings_bounceControl(FlipperExt)
If BAM_VERSION < 233 then Exit Sub
   ' Params to tweak
   const base_elasticCoef                        = 0.8  ' very bouncy flipper rubber
   const expected_ball_speed_after_hit           = 280  ' calc elasticCoef to get desired ball speed after ball hit flipper
   const minimum_elasticCoef_to_scale_fast_balls = 0.15 ' we will add this to calculated elastiCoef, so ball after hit will have aditional 5% of speed before hit
   const reduction_for_flipper_in_motion         = 0.10 ' if flipper is not in starting point, reduce elasticCoef by 10%
   const min_elasticCoef                         = 0.08 ' 2%, ball will almost glue to flipper, this is minimum value
 
   If FlipperExt.Hit Then
      Dim elasticCoef 
      ' ball_speed_after_hit = elastic_coef * ball_speed_before_hit
      ' so, elastic_coef = expected_ball_speed_after_hit / ball_speed_before hit !
elasticCoef = 1.0
      If expected_ball_speed_after_hit < xBAM.Ball.Speed Then elasticCoef = expected_ball_speed_after_hit / xBAM.Ball.Speed
 
      ' now add little bit to preserv atleast 5% of ball speed before hit (not all balls should end with 240 mm/s)
      elasticCoef = elasticCoef + minimum_elasticCoef_to_scale_fast_balls
 
      ' make sure, we to not have elasticCoef higher than base value
      If elasticCoef > base_elasticCoef Then elasticCoef = base_elasticCoef
 
      ' now, reduce elastic coef if flipper is not at StartAngle (1 deg difference or more required)
      If FlipperExt.AngleDiff > 1 Then elasticCoef = elasticCoef - reduction_for_flipper_in_motion
 
      ' ... finally make sure, that elasticCoef will not be "negative" or to smalll
      If elasticCoef < min_elasticCoef Then elasticCoef = min_elasticCoef
 
      FlipperExt.SetMaterial elasticCoef 
   End If
End Sub
''''''''''''''''''''End of Flipper dynamics'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Edited by gimli246, 03 December 2018 - 01:04 PM.

[Thalamus]

Looking forward to see the video and have a good laugh again.

[chepas]

Well, you haven't swayed my opinion in the slightest. I played POTO for a bit and the game that I captured I was bored by 2 minutes in and didn't play 5 balls.

 

The 3 balls was 5-6 minutes long. When playing it I thought "Yeah, maybe this is good for children to learn to play on because they won't lose balls so quickly as a real game or VP"

 

Going for center shot I went for (what felt like 100 times), always went up the ramp (accelerated). The shots are off, have to flip early to get aim right.

 

It was horrible and knew it was going to be. I seem to remember maybe in VP9 there was a decent build of POTO and at the time it used BMPR.... just play that with rom.

 

https://youtu.be/lShnMc65egg

Edited by chepas, 23 August 2018 - 11:21 PM.

[Thalamus]

LOL. And this is what the fuzz is about. C'mon !!!! Ok. it is seems to be better than this ... just slightly ... https://youtu.be/aOV2m8IoUqw?t=53s

 

Thanks for giving me a good laugh guys.

[pinballguy559]

Is it still have virus or Trojan?

Edited by pinballguy559, 24 August 2018 - 12:31 AM.

[chepas]

You made an account just to post that? Sick life.

[pinballguy559]

You made an account just to post that? Sick life.

 

yes or no?

Update: Ignoring me is not an answer.

Edited by pinballguy559, 24 August 2018 - 12:48 AM.

[chepas]

Let's see Thursday night, you're on the piss, you read VPF as you normally would around this time, but decide to create account and post allegation toward ravaarcade shipping virus in BAM? Sick life init.

[gimli246]

Hey thanks for trying it Chepas !
I appreciate it
Your comment about children indicates you may notice a slight improvement from before?

As a regular FP player, I find it substantial.

Thanks for giving it a go. It is important for those of us still working on FP to keep people aware of potential inroads.

One question, did you use the current version of BAM?

The dynamic flipper function will only work with current BAM.

The table won't crash without BAM or with old BAM

Edited by gimli246, 24 August 2018 - 02:31 AM.

[gimli246]

Also did you download the current version POTC ?

[Draifet]

Yesterday I tried this table with latest version of BAM, on my opinion the flippers felt good, probably better than on another tables, but the speed of the ball was very linear, and on the first min of playing the table the ball stopped on the middle of the top wireramp, maybe not flippers fault but this dont help to hava a good opinion about physics.

[gimli246]

Thanks for the insightful feedback draifet !

To remove the linear feel, try deleting the line
XBAM.BallSpeedLimit = 3000 or increase its value to 4000

This code prevents the ball from going too fast...

Another thing to try for a different feel is to turn off Ravarcade Bounce control .
To do this go to the bounce code and use the words "exit sub " as follows:

Sub OnPreHitFlipperSettings_bounceControl(FlipperExt
Exit sub

It should also be noted that any table also will use an XML physics file of your choice.
POTC has an XML embedded in script...

So you are correct to see that the improved flipper function and the rest of the table physics are separate things to adjust and observe...

Edited by gimli246, 24 August 2018 - 12:22 PM.

[chepas]

 

One question, did you use the current version of BAM? The dynamic flipper function will only work with current BAM. The table won't crash without BAM or with old BAM

 

Followed the guide on the download, installed that version of BAM. When video capture is first loaded I show the BAM menu, which displays the Physics xml line.

 

 

As a regular FP player, I find it substantial.

 

Banana = Actual Machine, Apple = FP, Orange = VP

 

It might be substantial for you because you're comparing Apple == Apple. Have to compare Banana == Apple, Banana == Orange. 

 

 

 

Your comment about children indicates you may notice a slight improvement from before?

 

It's just meaning it's too easy, it's not like playing a machine at all. I'm going to specify a group and say under 8s.

 

If you manage to go quarter of the way up the ramp, then it gets sucked up on a conveyor belt. You haven't even got to aim for the ramp and she's going up.

 

 

Hey thanks for trying it Chepas !
I appreciate it

 

No problem, I had to have a break doing something else for half hour and chose this.

Edited by chepas, 24 August 2018 - 01:01 PM.

[Gilrock]

I've always liked the FP physics better but maybe that's due to the table I created in both programs having banana flippers.  I own the real table so all the physics seem fake to me but I still have fun playing.

[chepas]

I've always liked the FP physics better but maybe that's due to the table I created in both programs having banana flippers.  I own the real table so all the physics seem fake to me but I still have fun playing.

 

You have Banana flippers in a real POTO? That might be an idea to put some into this FP build, then you could probably spoon it into the center shot rather than going up the ramp.