2087 replies to this topic

[htamas]

Today i found a table that stutters pretty bad in DX9 Test9a and previous...but not so bad in DX7.
The game is Cosmic Gunfight v1.1.1(both FS and WS) and created by Koadic, OldSkoolGamer, and ICPJuggla.

 

Interesting... I had to try this and indeed, I could see some micro-stutter with the DX9 beta. The official 9.2.1 DX7 .exe runs this table perfectly smooth.

 

DX7:

 CG_DX7.jpg   34.54KB   21 downloads

 

DX9:

 CG_DX9.jpg   36.54KB   22 downloads

 

This is under WinXP, on an AMD Phenom II X4 3.4 GHz and a GTX 560.

 

So far this is the only table where the DX7 executable seems to be working better than DX9 (apart from the known DX9 issues in the beta). I use the beta as my main player now.

Edited by htamas, 11 March 2014 - 09:09 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

I just tried quickly on my development system (i5-760 with GTX 560 ti on Windows 7 32-bit) and as much as the FPS may be higher with VP 921, it was still quite high in the DX9 / test9a build and generally just as smooth from what I could tell comparing both the WS and FS with the VP9_DX9_Test9a and VP921- certainly nothing obvious but I will admit once you get down to the smaller details a lot more testing and close inspection is required.  I purposely tested with any type of (FX)AA off and was using 1920 x 1080 as my resolution.  I got about 1000 FPS + or - 100 for both WS and FS on VP9_DX9_Test9a.  On VP921 it may have been a few hundred higher (about 30-40% so around 1300-1400 for the same WS and FS versions) but it did not seem to impact game play at all.  

 

There will be cases in the DX9 VP branch I would imagine that aren't as high for raw FPS now as DX9 renders more things every frame (i.e. lights) but if you're still getting anything from about 600-1000 it should still be smooth.  There is still some small amount of stutter I feel in the latest builds (since test7), however, this is mostly only visible now when using FXAA (at nvidia control panel or VP preference level - and will remain to be seen how it's affect when regular AA is implemented).  To be clear, without either the FXAA aspects or simply the lower FPS that using FXAA produces (but I'm starting to believe it's more the former), DX9 builds are very smooth and even when comparing the pre-ball rendering code changes of test7 and before to the current builds, when FXAA is not employed / in the mix, it's very tough to see / reproduce any situations where the ball is less smooth.  When I've been working with Mukuste for ball stutter aspects, it's been very difficult to demonstrate quantitatively and / or qualitatively when FXAA is not used (does still exist somewhat but is more of an intra-version aspect and should not be much worse than what was generally the norm for the DX7 VP921 stream).

[mukuste]

 

Today i found a table that stutters pretty bad in DX9 Test9a and previous...but not so bad in DX7.
The game is Cosmic Gunfight v1.1.1(both FS and WS) and created by Koadic, OldSkoolGamer, and ICPJuggla.

 

Interesting... I had to try this and indeed, I could see some micro-stutter with the DX9 beta. The official 9.2.1 DX7 .exe runs this table perfectly smooth.

 

 

Interesting, indeed. Your screenshot shows strong variation in the frame times. If you want you can try the frame limiting feature. Try limiting to, say, 240 fps. Just put the number into the adaptive vsync field in the video options.

 

I have no idea what's so special about this table that it could cause these frame time jumps. Some special scripting stuff maybe?

Edited by mukuste, 11 March 2014 - 10:06 PM.

[kruge99]

Valve just posted their Direct3d to OpenGL Translation Layer to github.  Could this be of use in the future??

 

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/ToGL

[StevOz]

test9a works well here though it did seem to hang or lock up on exit, though changing the comparability mode Windows NT 4.0 ( Service pack 5 ) fixed that here on XP.

 

[DreamTrap]

Yea maybe memory going bad or something. I tried it on one of my desktops with a 560ti and 2 screens and it ran perfect.. try changing your memory out or take 1 stick out if u have 2

memory is fine lots of other tables work except 2 so i gave up trying to get it working . maybe in later versions they'll work again all other tables work and play fine so who cares about 2 tables.

 

just tried the new totan that works fine too and that's more graphic intensive so FIIK why SC and MB won't load...

Edited by DreamTrap, 12 March 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[zany]

When i set adaptive sync in preferences/video options to 1(was 0) the stutter is gone.
Is the "Override by Global Physics" still -1 for auto....when i set it to -1, the table doesn't load.

[StevOz]

I think this has been mentioned though I get the F11 stutter free game play, though if I turn off the the the frame rate reports, the stutter returns?

[Slydog43]

steve oz, which game?

[StevOz]

steve oz, which game?

 

I'm testing with what should be the lowest game requirement, OMG an original without a rom or vpinmame! Yes my own creation TheGyruss.

Edited by StevOz, 12 March 2014 - 11:56 AM.

[earbiter]

Valve just posted their Direct3d to OpenGL Translation Layer to github.  Could this be of use in the future??

 

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/ToGL

 

I posted details on getting test9a running beautifully under Wine on Linux - http://www.vpforums....=26828&p=258478

 

I know Mukuste mentioned previously about porting to opengl/other platforms but that sounds way off in the future if ever.  I would hope Valve's ToGL would help to make that easier.  It would be nice if VP development could be done completely with open source tools.  Seemed like a big pita to try and compile vp since its done entirely with MS products.

 

The only issue I have run into with test9a on some tables is that its not finding the vbs scripts (like s4.vbs) in the scripts folder.  But that may be table related.

Edited by earbiter, 12 March 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[Practicedummy]

Valve just posted their Direct3d to OpenGL Translation Layer to github.  Could this be of use in the future??

 

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/ToGL

I hope the harcoded part isn't an issue.

[mukuste]

Valve just posted their Direct3d to OpenGL Translation Layer to github.  Could this be of use in the future??

 

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/ToGL

 

It could certainly be an option for porting the renderer... however, the bigger problem would be porting the whole scripting engine, which relies on COM heavily. That would be quite a large task in itself, and then all the table scripts would have to be rewritten since the scripting language would have to change. So for the foreseeable future, I'm afraid Wine will be the only option. On the bright side, it seems to work rather well!

 

 

I think this has been mentioned though I get the F11 stutter free game play, though if I turn off the the the frame rate reports, the stutter returns?

 

What are your FPS, avg and max frame time when you turn F11 on?

[ClarkKent]

Is it a bug that both wire ramps in MB are just plain without any texture? Moreover I noticed that I can only play it (killer edition) with HyperPin when applying the 4GB patch on the .exe first (Win7x64). Otherwise I get the out of memory error.

[krille81]

Same problem here, and i think the lights failing blink too much


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[JoeM]

Hey mukuste and the other guys, which are really involved: You are doing an incredible job !!!

 

Thank You  !

[unclewilly]

Is it a bug that both wire ramps in MB are just plain without any texture? Moreover I noticed that I can only play it (killer edition) with HyperPin when applying the 4GB patch on the .exe first (Win7x64). Otherwise I get the out of memory error.

There is a bug in the sphere mapping in the 9 a test.

It's strange that you have that issue with mb. The pc killer edition plays smooth on my yyoga 2 pro. With integrated Intel graphics 2 gb shared ram and an i5 2.7 ghz

[mukuste]

Download VP9_DX9_test10 here:  VP9_DX9_test10.zip   675.2KB   181 downloads
Important: instead of fullscreen mode, run in "windowed fullscreen" mode.

If you get flicker, please disable 4xMSAA.

Table compatibility spreadsheet (thanks to gtxjoe): https://docs.google....EPwri8/viewform

 

This is more of a maintenance release with several bugfixes and optimizations since the bigger changes have been internal in preparation of larger changes to physics etc.

 

I want to repeat the appeal to use the frame limiter for smoother gameplay! It's enabled by setting the vsync field higher than the refresh rate. I've had good results with 120 fps, but your mileage may vary.

 

When reporting an issue, please first check if it isn't already in the list of known general issues or on the table compatibility spreadsheet.

 

Changes since Test9:

• major optimizations to flasher rendering (very noticeable on latest CV FOM!)
• minor optimizations to alpha ramp rendering
• now compile with "large address aware" flag. If you had crashes on resource-hungry tables like MB before, try again now!
• more tweaks to the max prerendered frames code, possible effect on smoothness
• fixed transparency bug with solid ramps (CV)
• fixed sphere mapping (MB and others)
• fixed bug in plunger rendering (unreleased table by kiwi)
• fixed crash when closing a table
• (toxie) introduced global stereo 3D parameters with per-table overrides
• (toxie) changed octree to KD-tree

Known general issues:

*) textboxes don't work
*) EM reels only work in Image Reel mode, not Text Reel
*) text decals don't work
*) kickers cut the ball in half
*) some depth ordering issues remain
*) Stereo 3D only works on NVIDIA so far
*) AA hardwired to 4xMSAA, flickers
*) textures aren't preloaded, can lead to stutter in some cases
*) screen shake doesn't work
*) adaptive vsync always falls back to normal vsync (can only be supported if we drop XP)
*) stereo3D parameters are different
*) "real" full screen mode doesn't work with VPM/B2S. Instead, use "Windowed fullscreen" mode.
*) lost devices aren't handled properly (real fullscreen issue only)
 

Known specific table issues:

https://docs.google....p=sharing#gid=0

 

Happy testing!

[gogo69]

v10 crashes at loading table into editor ... 9a still works... what am i doing wrong ?

[mukuste]

v10 crashes at loading table into editor ... 9a still works... what am i doing wrong ?

 

Hmm... what OS? How much RAM do you have?

 

Is it any table, or just particular ones?