17 replies to this topic

[rob046]

Here I am again gushing over an old Eala Dubh project. But I am, & would really love more info on this table, it is interesting as hell & mysterious. This is an early SS game ('79-'80). Made by a company called Universal that has only made a couple games & they have almost no info. Just a few flyers.
http://www.ipdb.org/...ine.cgi?id=3811

As for why I'm posting this in the VPM section. Well, apparently it is a SS table, but it is also the first table to actually use a monitor in the backglass for scoring & such. Not sure if it does anything other than scoring (such as animations?). Even if we found a rom dump for this game, could it be emulated? Does it maybe run the same hardware as, say Bally (baby-pacman?).

That monitor display is a neat gimmick, but that is not why I'm interested in this table. I'm interested because the game looks absolutely killer yet so unknown. I mean, that layout is amazing. The IRP screenshot is small, & in a RARE turn of events, the best picture of this table that I know of is actually Eala's recreation! It shows the table way better than the IPDB flyers do. So I'll attach a screenshot so everybody can check out this layout. & grab the table at IRpinball if interested. I love drop targets, inline drops, & lots of shot selections. So this table really does it for me, along with some interesting art & colors too. If we had this in VPM with the monitor integrated, that would be really cool. I'm sure cab users would like this even more. Something different.

Anyhow, just curious that even if somebody tracked down an owner & maybe a rom dump... would it still be impossible to pinmame this one?

Attached Files

•  Harem_Cat___2.0_Universal_1979_.jpg   495.05KB   80 downloads

Edited by rob046, 24 July 2012 - 10:22 PM.

[EalaDubhSidhe]

Thank Moonchild for the graphics update, he was the one that got hold of the higher-res flyer scan.

Flyers.dn has the 300dpi of this game's flyer as well, it answers a lot of questions about gameplay and the use of the screen. By the look of it, the monitor isn't much more than a gimmick - basic scores and bonus counting, and pimitive effects for extra balls and specials, and not a lot more. Still more than you'd expect for a 1979 game, but we've otherwise seen everything there is to see with this game.

http://flyers.cdyn.c...at-1979-f-2.jpg

Now Asteroid Killer, if we had a scan of *that*...

[rob046]

Thank Moonchild for the graphics update, he was the one that got hold of the higher-res flyer scan.

Flyers.dn has the 300dpi of this game's flyer as well, it answers a lot of questions about gameplay and the use of the screen. By the look of it, the monitor isn't much more than a gimmick - basic scores and bonus counting, and pimitive effects for extra balls and specials, and not a lot more. Still more than you'd expect for a 1979 game, but we've otherwise seen everything there is to see with this game.

http://flyers.cdyn.c...at-1979-f-2.jpg

Now Asteroid Killer, if we had a scan of *that*...

Yeah, this game was produced 33 years ago, so I wouldn't expect much. However, for its age, we are talking color displays! Its 2012 & not even Stern has those yet! & on that flyer it actually does show some pictures or animations that look even better than I thought they might. Also I just noticed yet another shot that I didn't notice was on the game. An extra kickout type of target, above the inline drops. There are 2 of these on the table. You have them as standard kickers on the VP table, but by looking at the flyer I'm wondering if they aren't more along the lines of a kicking target because I don't see any holes at all. They must be similar to Gottlieb kick targets?
Of course this game was made long ago in VP, with 1024x texture limits. The game could maybe look even better if somebody could take that flyer image & clean & sharpen it a bit, since VP now allows textures higher than the 1024x limit back when this was made.

Do you think you got the rules 100% or are some things still in question? How about sounds? They accurate?
I'm also wondering how many of these machines even exist these days, if any. I can only assume it must be pretty rare, or what does exist might only be in Japan? I'd like to know, & would still love to see this pinmame'd if at all possible. Especially if we got good pics/scans of this table somehow, I think it could be one of the nicer VPM tables out there.

Yeah there isn't even a flyer for Asteroid Killer. Does the game even exist? Was it maybe a prototype? I'd be curious to see a pic of any quality. The Hercules game, from the tiny Flyer, looks like it could be OK, but its no Harem Cat. Also odd that it is an EM, yet dated 1980 like the other 2 games that are SS.

Edited by rob046, 24 July 2012 - 11:23 PM.

[Tomcat Leader]

Universal mostly produced video games such as Lady Bug, Space Panic, Jumping Jack, Cosmic Guerillas, Cosmic Avenger and Mr. Do! The Do! series games were the most successful for Universal. There were four versions of Do! games: Mr. Do!, Mr. Do!'s Castle, Do!'s Wild Ride and Do! Run Run. Visco produced the NeoGeo version called Neo Mr. Do!.


According to KLOV, the game was made in 1980. No members of KLOV own the machine.

Edited by Tomcat Leader, 24 July 2012 - 11:31 PM.

[Bob5453]

Harem Cat, I liked the layout so much I stole it for an Original table. The Addams Family TV, screenshot below....

[CaptainNeo]

where did the resources for this come from to make the FP version? This looks very similar to the Lost World and Paragon artwork package. Would go great with that series. Would love to get my hands on a playfield for that to scan in.

[EalaDubhSidhe]

I don't think it's quite accurate, since the visible detail on the flyer scan at the time was quite low. It's more legible at 300dpi. I also used first-gen Bally sounds since they fitted the period - this machine probably doesn't do much more than 10 / 100 / 1000 point beeps.

[rob046]

where did the resources for this come from to make the FP version? This looks very similar to the Lost World and Paragon artwork package. Would go great with that series. Would love to get my hands on a playfield for that to scan in.

You mean VP version? If there is an FP version let me know, I'll have to find it. But my screenshot above is right from VP.
All the artwork you see in that is just from an old flyer scan. & this is how many tables were made back in the day. The art could be improved on, as that flyer had to be shrunk down to 1024x since VP at the time only supported that. So just right there we could get a little improvement.
I think there might be enough there for a bit of a redraw as well. However I'm not sure anybody would be too interested in doing a redraw for a game not PinMame'd. I'd love to see that happen though (a redraw or a rom or both!). However, for all I know there might only be 1 of these in existence, & after 33 years who knows if even that is around. A quick search online & I still can't find a real pic of this pin. Just the flyers.

[Comicalman]

I just tried this out in my cab (vp ver 9.12) . It works fine with one exception- in the upper reaches of the game, the graphics cover the ball! I have seen this in other tables, but have never quite figured out why. Eala or anyone have any ideas why this happens?

[FDSystems]

I just tried this out in my cab (vp ver 9.12) . It works fine with one exception- in the upper reaches of the game, the graphics cover the ball! I have seen this in other tables, but have never quite figured out why. Eala or anyone have any ideas why this happens?

If yopu have an ATI, Check "reorder" in the editor. It might help

[rob046]

I just tried this out in my cab (vp ver 9.12) . It works fine with one exception- in the upper reaches of the game, the graphics cover the ball! I have seen this in other tables, but have never quite figured out why. Eala or anyone have any ideas why this happens?

This is probably because you are taking a table made way back in VP6 or earlier & trying to play it in VP912. If you play the table in VP8 it should work fine. This is why in the downloads section it is listed in the VP8 section. What I normally do with VP8 tables, since some do look OK in VP9, I'll take & compare a screenshot of the game from both versions of VP. Make sure they match or at least come close with no obvious glitches. If they don't, then consider that a VP8 only table. If they do, then go ahead & play in VP9. Or take a VP9 screenshot & compare it to the screenshot here on the site. That works too.

Though for a lot of really old tables made back in VP6 or older, I'll just prefer to play those in VP8 because it is safer & you also don't run the risk of the physics not being as intended. Though I guess that is something you need to watch for on any VP8 tables in VP9. Not just the likelihood of visual glitches, but with physics as well & the game not playing quite as the author intended.

[Comicalman]

I just tried this out in my cab (vp ver 9.12) . It works fine with one exception- in the upper reaches of the game, the graphics cover the ball! I have seen this in other tables, but have never quite figured out why. Eala or anyone have any ideas why this happens?

I experimented with this a bit. It turns out that the Width & Height may be the key to fixing this issue (for 9.1x). I also tried this out on a different computer. If I alter the width of the table from 1000 to 1054 and height from 2000 to 2180, the ball does not do a disappearing act.

Given some time, I will try to fix this (perhaps do a QUICK PF redraw too?). If all goes well, I might take a shot at a B2S backglass to boot.

[Bob5453]

I just tried this out in my cab (vp ver 9.12) . It works fine with one exception- in the upper reaches of the game, the graphics cover the ball! I have seen this in other tables, but have never quite figured out why. Eala or anyone have any ideas why this happens?

I experimented with this a bit. It turns out that the Width & Height may be the key to fixing this issue (for 9.1x). I also tried this out on a different computer. If I alter the width of the table from 1000 to 1054 and height from 2000 to 2180, the ball does not do a disappearing act.

Given some time, I will try to fix this (perhaps do a QUICK PF redraw too?). If all goes well, I might take a shot at a B2S backglass to boot.

I didn't look at the table, but you don't usually change the length and width of the actual table, you change the zooming in and out of the table. This is done on the backdrop of the editor, you need to rotate the table with the XY Rotation, if it is a desktop table, then 360 degrees for the zoom to function, it doesn't zoom at zero, and then change the X scale and Y scale numbers, if they are 1, then try something like .98 in each field and adjust from there, this will make the table a little smaller and the objects should display fine.

[Comicalman]

I just tried this out in my cab (vp ver 9.12) . It works fine with one exception- in the upper reaches of the game, the graphics cover the ball! I have seen this in other tables, but have never quite figured out why. Eala or anyone have any ideas why this happens?

I experimented with this a bit. It turns out that the Width & Height may be the key to fixing this issue (for 9.1x). I also tried this out on a different computer. If I alter the width of the table from 1000 to 1054 and height from 2000 to 2180, the ball does not do a disappearing act.

Given some time, I will try to fix this (perhaps do a QUICK PF redraw too?). If all goes well, I might take a shot at a B2S backglass to boot.

I didn't look at the table, but you don't usually change the length and width of the actual table, you change the zooming in and out of the table. This is done on the backdrop of the editor, you need to rotate the table with the XY Rotation, if it is a desktop table, then 360 degrees for the zoom to function, it doesn't zoom at zero, and then change the X scale and Y scale numbers, if they are 1, then try something like .98 in each field and adjust from there, this will make the table a little smaller and the objects should display fine.

Hmmm. Interesting. Since I am converting from desktop to FS, I already altered the params you speak of. SO, XYrotation is now 270, and Xscale 1.9, Yscale 2.21. What do you recommend for this FS conversion?

[Bob5453]

Hmmm. Interesting. Since I am converting from desktop to FS, I already altered the params you speak of. SO, XYrotation is now 270, and Xscale 1.9, Yscale 2.21. What do you recommend for this FS conversion?

Converting is not an exact science, so you just start plugging in numbers, so everyone's numbers would be a little different, depending on where they start. I was just commenting that the artifacts or graphic problems you were seeing would most likely be solved by reducing the xScale and yScale, rather than actually changing the table dimensions which will throw the whole table out of kilter unless it was done proportionately. My way only changes the display size, your way change the physical table, both ways will usually solve the display problems.

[Schusler]

I tried to track down info on Harem Cat when I found a flyer for it on the web way back when.... I'll preface that I'm a big Universal's arcade division so that's how
I found out about this. I couldn't find any info about it back then and still to this day. No records, no pics, no info nothing! Nothing on RGP archives...

I've come to the conclusion that this has got to be a prototype made for the flyer and maybe the only one. Let's hope one day this is discovered in a dark warehouse
somewhere. Although i have an inkling since no pics ever surfaced that it was destroyed.

[Tomcat Leader]

Or one of the designers has it mothballed somewhere in some storage or warehouse.

[Schusler]

Or one of the designers has it mothballed somewhere in some storage or warehouse.

Lets hope!