64 replies to this topic

[Cysma]

After spending several hours with each, my opinion is that Future Pinball is superior to Visual Pinball in every conceivable way except for table selection, and that's only because FP hasn't been around nearly as long.

Most tables you download for VP require you to download ROMS for them separately, which is rather cumbersome, and they're not guaranteed to work. About half of the tables I downloaded for VP refuse to work, even though I downloaded the rom files and everything!

As for Future Pinball, on the other hand, I've gotten every table to work with little trouble, and all the files you need to run a table are in one convenient package.

And this isn't even getting into the obvious graphical differences between the two!

[destruk]

I'm not sure if your question is serious or not. I'll try to answer anyway. There are advantages or everyone would make tables with Future Pinball. As far as roms, all the roms on this site ARE guaranteed to work. I'm pleased to be able to run the best of both worlds, regardless.

[hgpinball]

You have to consider that the usage of ROM images in VPM tables guarantees that the table will resemble the real machine as far as possible, regarding the table rules and audio-visual effects. In FP you have to program each of these by yourself. More than once there was a demand from the community that FP should support ROMs.

[pharaoh]

After spending several hours with each, my opinion is that Future Pinball is superior to Visual Pinball in every conceivable way except for table selection, and that's only because FP hasn't been around nearly as long.

Most tables you download for VP require you to download ROMS for them separately, which is rather cumbersome, and they're not guaranteed to work. About half of the tables I downloaded for VP refuse to work, even though I downloaded the rom files and everything!

As for Future Pinball, on the other hand, I've gotten every table to work with little trouble, and all the files you need to run a table are in one convenient package.

And this isn't even getting into the obvious graphical differences between the two!

If half the tables you play refuse to work with the roms, something may be snarfed with your configuration or setups
either software or hardware. It may be a pain to troubleshoot. I have never had a rom to be a pooper with VP ever.
Cmon, join the Darkside and bust down on Pharaoh and Blackout!!

[EalaDubhSidhe]

What? Nobody's mentioned physics yet? YOU'RE SLIPPIIIIIIIIIIIIIING.

[Greywolf]

What? Nobody's mentioned physics yet? YOU'RE SLIPPIIIIIIIIIIIIIING.

(waves) Dia a dhuit, Eala!

Regardless of physics (since it's something that will get fixed eventually), the main advantage i see of VP over FP from a layman's perspective is that FP requires a pretty hefty video card in order to work *well*, if at all. VP can run on almost anything.

VP:
+ does not need special graphics or super-hi-powered cpu
+ has currently better physics management
+ interfaces with vPinMAME to allow easier development of solid state games
- is pre-rendered 2d
- has no lighting effects to speak of (you have to do them manually)*
- has limited modeling (no custom kickers, etc)
- does not provide the rubber bands as shapeable objects
- requires the use of dropwalls for targets.

FP:
+ has very nice backlighting and playfield lighting effects*
+ has a plethora of models including various bumpers, kickers, flippers, etc.
+ supports libraries for resources to avoid duplicating them within the tables proper.
+ supports backbox sub-translite animations
+ runs real-time 3d
+ allows on/off states on reels
- requires a heavy GPU
- has faulty physics at the moment (not for lack of trying; it's the engine)
- does not provide user-defined textboxes
- has inconsistent UI dialogs for different resources

*neither one supports true lighting shadows.

It might be fair to say that, due to its lack of modeling, VP actually allows for more flexibility in design and layout as far as objects are concerned.

I prefer FP but it's certainly not without its (occasionally frustrating and annoying) flaws.

[moogster66]

I will agree with most that the FP physics do need help. But I have stated before on this site the same things mentioned in the initial post. Setup is the biggest problem with VP. I have been trying to get backglasses, DMDs, setup for a couple of weeks now. And the help I have been receiving from this site is amazing. But it has been weeks. FP setup is so much easier than VP. You can setup a backglass and 2nd monitor in just a few minutes, not weeks. I will admit I don't have a lot of time for pinball, so take that in consideration when I say weeks. But the time has been spent reading the readme files, reading posts here, asking for help and waiting for replies. The bottom line is that while I'm waiting for replies, I am playing FP with two monitors and no headaches. I see the greatness in VP, and like Destruk said, we are blessed to have them both!

Edited by moogster66, 24 February 2010 - 11:09 AM.

[LuckyArmpit]

I run both, vp and fp. I run only on a single monitor (I play via my laptop but its connected up to a seperate keyboard/mouse/monitor).
FP on my system runs slower and what the others have said, the physics don't match up to VP.
I have no problems launching either, I run VP Man front end (thanx fartian!!!!) And I have no problems with roms.
That said, I do have some problems running tables that have been done with vp 9...these are tables that are graphically intensive and will
run choppy even when the resolution is dropped down and the hd is unchecked.
Believe me, I have 615 tables and using vp man as a table manager to find and launch tables is awesome. It also works with fp tables too.


Lucky...

[Gravy]

Greywolf, whilst it may have previously been the case that FP required a high end video card I dont think that really applies these days. I was originally playing it on a Nvidia 6600GT (now about 5 years old) and it played quite well for all but the most intensive of tables. These days practically any modern card should do the job quite nicely, aside from perhaps some cheap onboard laptop GPUs.

Cysma, I personally dont like playing tables with low quality graphics but several VP table authors have had me enthralled over the last year or so due to their amazing art talents whereas previously I was fairly devoted to playing FP. VP generally feels better for physics provided the designer has tweaked things correctly.

[lettuce]

It would be nice to have VP in your right hand and FP in your left and rub them together, and then you would have the ultimate Pinball emulator. For this to happen its going to have to be FP to do the leg work, as i think VP has advanced as far as it can without a major rework of it engine (to become more like FP 3d i guess). I think if FP does ever get a update to its physics (which is more than likely) and added Rom support (50/50 on weather this will EVER happen) then VP will be slowly left behind and we'll see 90% of table created for FP and remakes of current VP tables

[grapper]

Biggest advantage for me over FP is being able to play all the 90´s classic I loved with wonderful physics. I play in 4:3, but plan to change that to a cab at some point. I am amazed at how well reproduced these classics are.

FP would be more interesting if it had better ball physics. ROM support would be heaven but it seems that is not very likely.

[faralos]

let's see where to start, in VP the ball feels heavier (no floaty feel) the coding well, ok you have to know more about coding to build pins, the graphics ARE better in FP, but fp won't run at all on my computer.
as for ROM packs, ALL originals DON'T use them and that's all I build so for me anyways VP is far better.
If you have problems with roms not working then you are doing something wrong. I never had any kind of problem with them as long as you get them all for a particular pin.

so for me VP far outweighs FP, yeah you must make each and every rubber from scratch, but isn't that half the fun? to actually create rather than just stretch existing objects? it is for me...

[Pinball Ken]

Yeah, the physics! Does FP use a real-world model? VP's physics are way better.

PK

[Cysma]

Visual Pinball has better physics? BETTER PHYSICS!? There've been plenty of instances where the ball clipped RIGHT THROUGH my flippers! Or does that actually happen in real pinball?

Edited by Cysma, 24 February 2010 - 01:43 PM.

[Gravy]

Visual Pinball has better physics? BETTER PHYSICS!? There've been plenty of instances where the ball clipped RIGHT THROUGH my flippers! Or does that actually happen in real pinball?

What version of VP are you using. The ball through flipper bug was supposedly squashed with newer versions, I havent seen it happen for a long time.

Besides, thats really more of a bug than a general physics issue in my view.

Edited by Gravy, 24 February 2010 - 01:47 PM.

[Pinball Ken]

I've never had that issue! Does it happen in all tables, in which case it may be a computer problem.

PK

[Cysma]

And why is it that there are several ROMS to download for the same table? Do I need to download all of them? Whenever I pick one, it usually doesn't work.

Visual Pinball tables that don't work for me are:
Attack/Revenge From Mars
Black Knight
Bow & Arrow
Back to the Future
Comet
Cyclone
Dragon
Monopoly
Playboy
Rolling Stones
Royal Flush
Cirqus Voltaire
Eight Ball
Star Trek
Star Trek TNG
Tee'd Off (Also describes how I feel about this)
TOTAN
Who Dunnit
Whirlwind
World Cup Soccer

It's REALLY infuriating to waste my 5 downloads for the day on pins that don't work!

[gStAv]

"Tee'd Off (Also describes how I feel about this)" *lol*

The ROM downloads dosen´t affect your 5 downloads a day limit!

[Noah Fentz]

ROMs do not count toward the 5, so just download them all, if you want ... sheesh.


We have every version of the available ROMs, and you complain?

I've never heard anyone ever complain about a site being 'too complete' before.


EVERY ROM and EVERY table on this site work ... period. The only limitation is the hardware, if it's setup correctly.

[faralos]

in VP8 yes theball went thru the flipper, but I never had it happen in VP9. Also on a real table i have many instances where the ball goes OVER the flipper, usually bouncing against the glass, never had that happen yet in VP