2044 replies to this topic

[coppertj]

@coppertj: Maybe your gpu is too weak. Did you try another table? Set FPS Limiter to 0 and reduce the supersampling and disable anti-aliasing in the vr options. Maybe you should disable the win 10 realtime security.

rx 580 with i5-4670k, all my other vr games run at normal speed with no lag, and VPVR is above 60fps in preview window tried setting limiter to 0 and super sampling/anti-aliasing is disable while i was troubleshooting, tried to disable realtime security no difference. I tried other tables but no difference either

 

Same rig here, so trying to help you with my settings:

 

1. Make sure you have VR on "autodetect" or "enabled". Just check it by opening VPVR without starting table, then - preferences - bottom right section "VR autodetect".

 

2. I have also VPVR Preview disabled in settings. It gives better performance and less issues with freezy's DLL

 

3. I have everything in Steam VR Version 1.9.16 on default

 

 

So there are two ways to start tables in VR:

 

a) When you have "VR autodetect" on, it should be enough to just open VPVR and select a table. Oculus software will launch by itself and SteamVR (without the steam browser) will launch after confirming the pop-uo in VPVR which comes up automatically.

 When you put your Headset on, you should be able to see the "Star-Sky" Steam "Room" and then the table in VR immediately

 

b) you have oculus software open. You open steam and start manually Steam VR in upper right corner. You should be able to see the "Star-Sky" Steam "Room.

Launch VPVR and table manually.

 

 

So question: do you see the star-sky room (by default it is enabled) when SteamVR is running?

Does the headset turn black once you run VPVR with table or when exactly?

And maybe a very dumb question, but is VPX non VR installed and running properly?

 

Do you see the Steam Menu when a VR table is loaded? You have to make it disappear (by pressing menu button) to see the VR table proberly

 

If this all does not help i have no clue whats going on with your system.

 

 

I tried setting vpvr to both enabled and auto detect and it did not make a difference, tried setting all steam options to default and still nothing.

 

Also, I am able to see the star sky while it loads up my table however, as soon as the table is 100% loaded and displaying on the preview window, the HMD goes black (I am still able to use the oculus menu ui but everything behind the ui is still black, as if vpvr is having trouble sending the video to steamvr driver).

 

I tried both letting vpvr boot steamvr and oculus and also starting both before opening vpvr and it still went black when the table loaded.

 

I also tried reinstalling steamvr

 

I am using VPVR with VPX 10.6.0

Edited by coppertj, 27 January 2020 - 07:02 PM.

[blindpeser]

Ok, there was something special about AMDs, I dont remember. Maybe something else can help out.

[Rawnei]

 

@coppertj: Maybe your gpu is too weak. Did you try another table? Set FPS Limiter to 0 and reduce the supersampling and disable anti-aliasing in the vr options. Maybe you should disable the win 10 realtime security.

rx 580 with i5-4670k, all my other vr games run at normal speed with no lag, and VPVR is above 60fps in preview window tried setting limiter to 0 and super sampling/anti-aliasing is disable while i was troubleshooting, tried to disable realtime security no difference. I tried other tables but no difference either

 

 

AMD drivers have compatability problems with OpenGL.

 

Caligula suggested a few pages back to try 20.1.2 drivers with RGBA16F: https://www.vpforums...=68#entry441489

 

Someone tested it and said it works so try that if you can.

[coppertj]

 

 

@coppertj: Maybe your gpu is too weak. Did you try another table? Set FPS Limiter to 0 and reduce the supersampling and disable anti-aliasing in the vr options. Maybe you should disable the win 10 realtime security.

rx 580 with i5-4670k, all my other vr games run at normal speed with no lag, and VPVR is above 60fps in preview window tried setting limiter to 0 and super sampling/anti-aliasing is disable while i was troubleshooting, tried to disable realtime security no difference. I tried other tables but no difference either

 

 

AMD drivers have compatability problems with OpenGL.

 

Caligula suggested a few pages back to try 20.1.2 drivers with RGBA16F: https://www.vpforums...=68#entry441489

 

Someone tested it and said it works so try that if you can.

 

You and Caligula are literally life savers. Thank you so much! It's working! Also that driver patch fixed one of my other games that I recently bought as well as a bonus! Thank you so much!!!!

[Ben Logan]

Amazing tech-support, guys.

[coppertj]

There's just one more problem, VPinMAME isn't loading when I load up a table/room, it works in regular vpx but not in vpvr. Any ideas?

[Rawnei]

There's just one more problem, VPinMAME isn't loading when I load up a table/room, it works in regular vpx but not in vpvr. Any ideas?

If it works in VPX it should work in VPVR as well, but are you running 32bit or 64bit? Might have to register the correct one with setup/setup64 in the VPinMame folder.

[coppertj]

 

There's just one more problem, VPinMAME isn't loading when I load up a table/room, it works in regular vpx but not in vpvr. Any ideas?

If it works in VPX it should work in VPVR as well, but are you running 32bit or 64bit? Might have to register the correct one with setup/setup64 in the VPinMame folder.

 

i found out through the search function was a 32 bit 64 bit mismatch, i used vpvr 32 bit and everything's workin now. Thank u

[gear323]

 

 

There's just one more problem, VPinMAME isn't loading when I load up a table/room, it works in regular vpx but not in vpvr. Any ideas?

If it works in VPX it should work in VPVR as well, but are you running 32bit or 64bit? Might have to register the correct one with setup/setup64 in the VPinMame folder.

 

i found out through the search function was a 32 bit 64 bit mismatch, i used vpvr 32 bit and everything's workin now. Thank u

 

 

I believe the recommendation is just to use the 32bit verison of VPX, VPX VR and Pinmame no matter what Windows OS you are running and that should give you the least amount of issues. 

Glad you got it working!!

Edited by gear323, 27 January 2020 - 08:41 PM.

[Ben Logan]

Have any of you guys seen this video? Epic showcase of VPVR using Oculus Quest and Link cable. Running older i7 and 980 graphics card. Great results. Long video featuring many tables and VR rooms. Video uploaded to YouTube on 1/26 (couple days ago):

 

https://youtu.be/1i1BSHiW-50

Edited by Ben Logan, 30 January 2020 - 03:10 AM.

[gear323]

Have any of you guys seen this video? Epic showcase of VPVR using Oculus Quest and Link cable. Running older i7 and 980 graphics card. Great results. Long video featuring many tables and VR rooms. Video uploaded to YouTube on 1/26 (couple days ago):

 

https://youtu.be/1i1BSHiW-50

 

I had not seen this yet but I believe this guy was here asking about suggestions about filming this.  Anyway. If you are reading this MR. Youtube channel guy, you should lower your ROM sound level to 26 in in each game ROM to fix your popping sounds.  You should also go into VPX VR  and under VR settings change your "VR Far Plane" to 50000.0 so that it fixes the black clipping in the VR rooms in the corners.  

Enjoyed the video!

Edited by gear323, 30 January 2020 - 03:46 AM.

[ftwo4one]

How did he get the PuP vids into Tron VR?  In Desktop mode everything is easy but I'm unable to display them in VR.

Can someone describe briefly how to get this done? Is it a flasher Object. How do I assign it.

Only way I can see it in VR is to move it on my Desktop right in front of the DMD.

It will then display in VR in the window where the DMD is on the backglass but then no scoring is visible.

It would be cool to have a big screen aside the table showing the PUP vids.

[unclewilly]

Maybe ill code up bad cats i made for fp with the com extension

[dark]

For those having some frame rate issues, it's been suggested on one of the facebook steam VR pages to experiment with the settings in the nvidia control pane "VR prerendered frames".  The default value (and preferred) is "1", the suggestion was to set it to 4.  That didn't help as much as I'd like but setting it to "2" made a decent difference on some of the more frame plagued tables (like JPark).  Although this should add more lag, I felt no difference in the flipper responses.

 

Anyway doesn't hurt to try, give it a whirl

I think the big cost in performance on JPark is the 'simulated' realistic 3D cast shadows.  I'm going to guess TAF will have similar performance issues in VR since it utilizes similar effects, these effects add realism but come at a cost, if someone took the time to go into the script and disable some of those effects you'd likely see a big improvement in fps.  As someone else mentioned, another way to improve performance on heavier tables might be to simplify the VR room, having multiple cabinets in the room is nice but once you're playing you dont need them.  I know they only use a flat image for the PF but the cabinet itself has a fair number of polygons.  It might be a good idea just to use a very basic room with no other cabs or 3d model decoration.  In a lot of cases VP tables were pushed to the limits of performance for PC without VR in mind so adding the extra burden of VR and the VR room is perhaps pushing them over the threshold for some users.

 

Looking at the screen shots of VR tables, one thing that really stands out is how piss poor VP's anti-aliasing is, the wire ramps, especially from a distance always look like such ass, some of them are so full of jaggies they look more like an LED strip light rather than wireforms from the screen shot.  In order to get 'good' looking anti-aliasing in VP you need to max out all the anti-aliasing options which unless you're running a super computer will put a huge impact on performance.  I don't know much about the behind the scenes inner workings on VP but I suspect these issues will continue to plague us until VP is updated to use something akin to a modern game engine.  Recently I was looking at some review videos of TPA, and almost every table I looked at, looks better in VPX imo but the anti-aliasing to performance ratio is obvious even to an un-trained eye.  Look at a modern game like Modern warfare or something, it obviously has a lot more going on it, large maps full of high detail full of player-characters all animated with high detail, particle effects etc, but it can run better than a pinball table sitting in a basic room.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or give the dev's a hard time, I well and truly appreciate all the crazy (free) effort people have put into this hobby I'm just addressing the elephant in the room - we all love VP but it has it's short falls.

[Rawnei]

Looking at the screen shots of VR tables, one thing that really stands out is how piss poor VP's anti-aliasing is, the wire ramps, especially from a distance always look like such ass, some of them are so full of jaggies they look more like an LED strip light rather than wireforms from the screen shot.  In order to get 'good' looking anti-aliasing in VP you need to max out all the anti-aliasing options which unless you're running a super computer will put a huge impact on performance.  I don't know much about the behind the scenes inner workings on VP but I suspect these issues will continue to plague us until VP is updated to use something akin to a modern game engine.  Recently I was looking at some review videos of TPA, and almost every table I looked at, looks better in VPX imo but the anti-aliasing to performance ratio is obvious even to an un-trained eye.  Look at a modern game like Modern warfare or something, it obviously has a lot more going on it, large maps full of high detail full of player-characters all animated with high detail, particle effects etc, but it can run better than a pinball table sitting in a basic room.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or give the dev's a hard time, I well and truly appreciate all the crazy (free) effort people have put into this hobby I'm just addressing the elephant in the room - we all love VP but it has it's short falls.

 

 

You don't use regular post-process Anti-Aliasing techniques in VR, you use supersampling, in VPVR with VR enabled we totally ignore any AA settings other than SS they have no affect on the rendering.

 

Techniques used is mipmapping (happens automatically can not be configured) and supersampling (can be configured).

 

Edit: The screenshots are probably bad because they are of the preview-window not the actual headset.

Edited by Rawnei, 30 January 2020 - 05:57 PM.

[rascal]

For those of us that are checking this out with Trinus Cardboard, would it be possible to add walking around via maybe the mouse or the arrow keys on the keyboard. It is ok standing still in front of the pinball table and looking in a circle, but if there was a method to move around without the sensors of a VR headset, that would be excelent. Right now there is the numberpad centering and moving up and down which is great, now just add right, left, forwards, and backwards to the Keys, Nudge, and DOF assignments... maybe?

[dark]

 

Looking at the screen shots of VR tables, one thing that really stands out is how piss poor VP's anti-aliasing is, the wire ramps, especially from a distance always look like such ass, some of them are so full of jaggies they look more like an LED strip light rather than wireforms from the screen shot.  In order to get 'good' looking anti-aliasing in VP you need to max out all the anti-aliasing options which unless you're running a super computer will put a huge impact on performance.  I don't know much about the behind the scenes inner workings on VP but I suspect these issues will continue to plague us until VP is updated to use something akin to a modern game engine.  Recently I was looking at some review videos of TPA, and almost every table I looked at, looks better in VPX imo but the anti-aliasing to performance ratio is obvious even to an un-trained eye.  Look at a modern game like Modern warfare or something, it obviously has a lot more going on it, large maps full of high detail full of player-characters all animated with high detail, particle effects etc, but it can run better than a pinball table sitting in a basic room.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or give the dev's a hard time, I well and truly appreciate all the crazy (free) effort people have put into this hobby I'm just addressing the elephant in the room - we all love VP but it has it's short falls.

 

 

You don't use regular post-process Anti-Aliasing techniques in VR, you use supersampling, in VPVR with VR enabled we totally ignore any AA settings other than SS they have no affect on the rendering.

 

Techniques used is mipmapping (happens automatically can not be configured) and supersampling (can be configured).

 

Edit: The screenshots are probably bad because they are of the preview-window not the actual headset.

 

Regardless of whether it's standard vpx or VR, objects suffer from jaggies that you just don't see in modern games.  It's most evident on wireforms, depending on the angle they suffer more or less.

[Rawd]

@ Dark..

 

I have been adding things with 400,000+ polygons to the room, just to see if it makes any difference in the speed/rendering/FPS of the table, and they don't seem to make any difference at all.  I am using a 980ti, and perhaps it is more taxing on a lesser card (I'm not sure).   I'm looking at adding an option at the top of the script to turn VR elements on/off on my future releases.

 

As far as the wire ramps.. especially at the back of the table...  I have been experimenting with different metals materials, and environmental lighting images.   If you can find the right combination of the two, the 'VR Jaggies' can be reduced quite a bit.  I agree that things could be better, but I think this is just a fault with the current tech.   Things will get better.

[blindpeser]

 

Looking at the screen shots of VR tables, one thing that really stands out is how piss poor VP's anti-aliasing is, the wire ramps, especially from a distance always look like such ass, some of them are so full of jaggies they look more like an LED strip light rather than wireforms from the screen shot.  In order to get 'good' looking anti-aliasing in VP you need to max out all the anti-aliasing options which unless you're running a super computer will put a huge impact on performance.  I don't know much about the behind the scenes inner workings on VP but I suspect these issues will continue to plague us until VP is updated to use something akin to a modern game engine.  Recently I was looking at some review videos of TPA, and almost every table I looked at, looks better in VPX imo but the anti-aliasing to performance ratio is obvious even to an un-trained eye.  Look at a modern game like Modern warfare or something, it obviously has a lot more going on it, large maps full of high detail full of player-characters all animated with high detail, particle effects etc, but it can run better than a pinball table sitting in a basic room.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or give the dev's a hard time, I well and truly appreciate all the crazy (free) effort people have put into this hobby I'm just addressing the elephant in the room - we all love VP but it has it's short falls.
 

 
You don't use regular post-process Anti-Aliasing techniques in VR, you use supersampling, in VPVR with VR enabled we totally ignore any AA settings other than SS they have no affect on the rendering.
 
Techniques used is mipmapping (happens automatically can not be configured) and supersampling (can be configured).
 
Edit: The screenshots are probably bad because they are of the preview-window not the actual headset.
 

Regardless of whether it's standard vpx or VR, objects suffer from jaggies that you just don't see in modern games.  It's most evident on wireforms, depending on the angle they suffer more or less.

I am pretty sure that the flickering is due to the 2D texture light mapping (forgot the correct name). When you replace the environment lighting image by a complete grey one, the flickering is gone completely. But the silver look is gone as well.

Edited by blindpeser, 30 January 2020 - 06:56 PM.

[dark]

The environment (HDR) image can affect how 3d objects look for sure but I don't think that's the root cause.  These rendering artifacts or 'jaggies' have been around long before the introduction of environment maps, though it has seen improvement, it still has some ways to go.  I think it has more to do with the rendering, if we compare to Future pinball (which is really old now) it never really suffered from jaggies like VP has and I believe that's due to FP running off OpenGL.

Edited by dark, 30 January 2020 - 07:34 PM.