4027 replies to this topic

[Thalamus]

I have not tested the latest, but, during my problem shooting yesterday. I had several crashes using the preferences audio gui. Pressing OK - it crashed a couple of times. Part of the reason why I just used the registry restore. That would be the 4439.

[lukpcn]

I've been using this latest beta in pinup popper and noticed that I could not load next table after exiting one for at least 15 seconds... probably vpx was frozen and then crashing (although I didn't check for crash reports - will check on my pincab afternoon).

[fourbanks]

 

rev4442 is up:

 

- add more custom portrait resolutions for mixed setups

- To reduce the amount of parallel CPU threads running, implement new command line parameter "-LessCPUthreads" (see CommandLineParameters.txt)

 

this build crashes on the exit of a game 

[fuzzel]

Somehow I always have the impression that the values of objects are not shown correctly. Sometimes selecting, deselecting and selecting a object again refreshes the values. And entering values without pressing return afterwards results unnoticed in not accepting the input. This was more reliable in 10.6 in my opinion.

Yes I encountered the same. The reason is that this terrible win32 UI MS-API is a nightmare when you have to deal with special keys like backspace, delete and enter together with the handling of F1-10 keys. I hope I can resolve this because the underlying behavior is not really clear to me.

 

Regarding the crashes: This might come from the fact that I had to reinstall my development tools again so it might be the case that something is missing or I use the wrong version of a library...This will hopefully be fixed in the next build.

[pfunkfunk]

Hey all, I tried out the latest 10.7 on my cabinet over the weekend and ran into an issue that I don't see documented here. My tables all loaded and played fine, but when I tried to directly adjust physics settings, those settings will not save. I can however change and save user settings. I tested this on two PCs, same results. I reverted back to 10.6 beta and everything was fine again, so it doesn't seem like it's a windows/file permissions thing. Anyway, thanks for all your great work. Just wanted to share and see if anyone else can replicate this one. 

[htamas]

I also have the crash problem when returning to the editor after playing a table, like JP and wiesshund said.

[onemanproject]

@JP Have you a new Computer 8 Core 16 Threads ? AMD or Intel ?

 

Quote:

Environment
===========
Date/time: 15/3/2021, 07:04:11:150
Number of CPUs: 16
Processor type: 586

Best Regards

[Thalamus]

wiesshund : I don't want this to become a *.ogg thread - but, as a quick feedback to that EM of yours. OGG is played muffled, even if you tried your best to blow my speakers up ;-p

Samples doesn't respect where they are put to play via sound manager. Putting them all to play in the backglass, the "eject" is played by the flippers. - I ended up deleting all the *.wav samples as they seemed to stop the samples you where trying to show me. I didn't dare to give them more than -0.5 in volume because at one point earlier in the test one of the samples played sounded like it gained momentum all on its own and the cab was shaking from the sub going crazy. Was not prepared and kind of lucky in that it ended at that volume all on its own. Hand was searching desperately for the exit button. Odd though, didn't happen again. You are probably right in that ogg played directional based on recording, but, god damn they remind me very much of what I showed you for the video where phone isn't picking them rom up. Phone was not able to pick my test up either. And I can assure you. I'm not playing that EM with a sound level of "normal" 0 ever again.

[jpsalas]

@JP Have you a new Computer 8 Core 16 Threads ? AMD or Intel ?

 

Quote:

Environment
===========
Date/time: 15/3/2021, 07:04:11:150
Number of CPUs: 16
Processor type: 586

Best Regards

Ok, this is really off topic But yes I bought a new computer, and it is an Intel (instead of building the computer myself as I have always done, I simply bought a HP Omen 30L, more o less the same price ) The only problem is that now I don't know when a table is too demanding

About the OGG in VPX: I'm updating some of my original tables to 10.7 and I use OGG for the music, and I set the volume to 0.01 This is one of the reasons I don't release them until 10.7 is officially out. I'm also not so happy with the way I made my DMD so I'm rebuilding the letters again, and now they look much better in FlexDMD, but I still use the same DMD using flashers. 

[lukpcn]

By the way, what I've noticed yesterday:

When using -minimized command line param I can't see the progress bar when loading from frontend but can't use Q button to pause the VPX while playing

When not using -minimized I see the progress bar window when loading a table but can use Q for pauing the gameplay....

Can We have a param for just hiding the progress bar window ? something line -NoLoadingBar or something ?

[jpsalas]

Another thing about the OGG files playing with the PlaySound: they don't seem to repeat when you use the -1 parameter, like PlaySound"mysong", -1

[wiesshund]

@thalamus
Yes. OGG has volume scaling issues, think they are still working on that, thats why you should have seen the OGG volumes at like -96

they are still working on that i think

 

The Eject will not play to the backglass even if you try to make it do so
the table script dictates where it plays, which is at the trough

 

almost all of the table sounds are SSF and wont listen to where you try to send them in sound manager
they are going to (hopefully) play out the location of the object on the table they are associated with

 

more importantly though, did any of the sounds that were set to backglass (as you received the table, before you tried to adjust it)
play out of the table, or did they attempt to come out of the backglass?

Then would have been bell sounds, some gear and reel sounds and 1 actuator coil, 

[chepas]

And an announcement: Visual Pinball is now over at https://github.com/vpinball/vpinball instead of sourceforge!

 

Open the issues? Would be far less ballache than here.

[wiesshund]

Another thing about the OGG files playing with the PlaySound: they don't seem to repeat when you use the -1 parameter, like PlaySound"mysong", -1

 

i get the feeling that it does not know if the ogg has ended, because they will not do a fixed repeat number either

[Thalamus]

Ok, so now I tested that EM of ours again. First of all OGG is played very low, but, you've created some bass effect so I don't dare to play them very loud. I separated ogg and waw to become two different version. Deleting the respective formats so I could crank the volume up and be able to hear them without breaking my speakers. Having them together, the volume level is so far between each other that I simply won't.

 

OGG at level -0.4, I can hear the sound being directional and played on the table and backglass. But, it is really awful and most of the sound goes to my sub in the end and it not a great experience at all. It becomes mostly just bass rumble. The vary targets is played at a odd position. But, that i believe is because 10.7 doesn't have the new improved 7.1 by njk70 in it yet. Those vary is placed - kind of in between the front and the back pairs of speakers/exciters and that is not a good thing for the current vpx ssf code.

 

The wav, the table plays normal, samples are set to table, and are instructed to do so by script. It is ok. So, what if I want the wav to be played in the backglass ? Patched the playsound functions to become non positional aware, and put all the samples to the backglass. The table is still playing like it was a ssf coded, nothing in the backglass and it is positional. I wondered if I've done it correctly. So I took a very nice ssf 10.6 table. Mr Doom. Did the same. Patched the functions, put all sounds to backglass and played it in 10.6, all sounds where played in the backglass. Took it over to 10.7 and it became ssf aware in that all samples are played on the table, ignoring that I want them in the backglass.

 

So, my conclusion is. For now, there is no way I can make sounds go to the backglass except using the OGG file format, and those are not played like they are expected to.

 

Might want to read this : https://vpinball.com.../7/#post-229504

Edited by Thalamus, 16 March 2021 - 07:22 AM.

[phlove]

maybe a little offtopic but there is a release for the VR ball bug released.

regards

[wiesshund]

Ok, so now I tested that EM of ours again. First of all OGG is played very low,

 

They play very low, mostly because, you are missing a speaker channel

They would be louder for you (And probably less cabinet shaking) had i done the table for a generic audience, but i made it specifically for the audio system i have sitting here.

 

So, i have redone these for you, based on how you described your cab audio setup

and no LFE channel, i killed it, so no rumbling.

Though i would leave their output level at -0.960 or -0.970 cause VPX does not properly set ogg volume (unless doing it on steroids counts?)too much preamp or something

and the fader slider set in the rear position

 

Then see if they come out very clearly from the backbox left and right speakers, and no place else, as that is how i made them for you

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

I made the zip so that if you just extract it to your c:\ drive, you will be able to just pick all the backglass sounds and click re-import
i zipped it so it would have same file structure, to make it easy.

 

 

 

Those vary is placed - kind of in between the front and the back pairs of speakers/exciters and that is not a good thing for the current vpx ssf code.

 

Well, that is kind of that they are supposed to do.

But you have exciters, and i have open air speakers, so my sound stage is a bit more, flexible?

Remember, i set the table up according to where i am normally sitting.

If i was doing the table for you, figuring that you have exciters on dense plywood

I would probably send you a dummy table (cause i do not have a cab to figure it properly) With some test sounds and with some audio targets on it
and have you move those targets so they equate to your exciter positions, and the in between points, then have you send that back

and then purposely have the sounds target those, as opposed to the actual real objects.
 

The real objects work quite well for acoustic speakers, but i can see where running exciters and trying to induce sound through a few hundred pounds
of dense bonded plywood would be a lot harder to pull off, even if  we are running much larger drivers powered by class A amps.

 

 

 

So, what if I want the wav to be played in the backglass ?

 

Well, pretty much, what you did.
You would have to change the playat object to just playsound, cause once you tell the script that it can manipulate where the sound goes
the sound manager gets stuffed in the back seat.

 

 

 

So, my conclusion is. For now, there is no way I can make sounds go to the backglass except using the OGG file format, and those are not played like they are expected to.

You should be able to shove WAV to the backglass

set backglass, then shove fader to rear, and it should let windows play them simply as it sees them (plain stereo or mono sounds)

If you leave the fade slider in the middle, or pull it to the front, then it thinks you want the sound someplace in the center of the table

which with your 6 channels, probably equates to a lot in the rear exciters, some in the backglass, and some in the front exciters.

See what doing that does to a WAV in your cab?

 

I think ultimately though, what might be needed, is an extra setting, where you can simply pick 10.6 type audio processing or 10.7 type processing

so you can just pick what works with your existing setup without readjusting a bunch of stuff.

[Thalamus]

Ok, you are right in that it is possible to put WAV to the backglass. But, currently, if 7.1 mode is enabled. You loose what I can describe as maybe 50% of its volume compared to 2-channel. It won't be a popular thing to release 10.7 without a better option. I don't see why you would want something that needs to be tuned to a location if it is already put into the backglass. Almost all the tables I play regularly is vpm and I want maybe 1 or 2 samples played there. Hell, for originals too. If it is not a normal sound for the table, like hitting something, a flipper, pin, rubber - etc. I would want to put the unrealistic, music or callouts sounds into the backglass like it was coming from a rom. Currently, all tables of mine are setup like that and when 10.7 is released I would have to use a slider ? That doesn't sound like a good idea to present to the community. I don't know. Maybe make a flag/option of some sort if someone needs the backglass to be in 3D space.

 

For the OGG files. Sure, they now play in the backglass, just like what you told me they would. But, they too have issues. Seems all sounds, after being played has some kind of vibrato to them as they fade. It doesn't sound great to be honest. But, their volume was ok, being set to a very low value Obviously needs some work there.

[njk70]

That is weird I had to make a code change to get .WAV files to move into the backglass at all.... or maybe that was because i was in my ssf enhancement mode which would have blocked it from getting there. Oh goodie, more things to test tonight. That said I think I have a handle on positioning the wav files in backglass mode in 10.7. I'd be inclined to not change how it works with WAV files vs 10.6 as it would be a completely unnecessary change that would change existing cab/table configurations. I think it is fair to limit that type of thing to being encoded in ogg files. (not my call of course)

[Thalamus]

Well, if it isn't your call, it should be

After looking at my setup from when I had issues and the backglass was acting weird. I wonder if the backglass was set to default device instead my realtek. Maybe that changes the behavior ?? It is worth a look, because I could not really find anything else that is different now except for that.

Edited by Thalamus, 16 March 2021 - 06:25 PM.