137 replies to this topic

[Aaron James]

This whole topic leaves me scratching my head.
400k...they are insane. VP Forever!!!!
Geez...give guys like JP, UncleWilly, LordHiyru, and the COUNTLESS others who can make a pinball remake like no other money to make a game for pete's sake!!!!
Future of pinball : 1) VP 2) Pinball Arcade 3) Jersey jack.

....notice I didn't mention Stern or this project...

[chocky909]

Have you actually played Pro Pinball? If you had you'd realise that it pops on Pinball Arcade and VP, physics wise from a great, GREAT height. I don't want to diss VP or PA or Zen but it amazes me how primitive and predictable the ball movement and flipper control is once you've played those games for a while.

JJP is irrelevent in this argument.

[unclewilly]

If pro pinball put out an editor. I would use it ove vp as they by far have the best physics of any pin sim ever created

[luvthatapex]

Since it ends today, it looks like they will come in at 170k pledged of the 400k needed. Hopefully they will revisit it with a new goal/plan in mind.

[settingsons]

I don't think it is fair to say that this is some sort of scam. It is true they have been over-optimistic about the sum they could raise, but they have worked damn hard for the last 30 days to try and get more people to pledge, and when you look at the average pledge it is still pretty impressive. I suspect the reason they are offering some goodies to those who have pledged even though they are unlikely to make it now is two-fold. Firstly, as they intend to still develop the product despite the outcome they need to keep people interested/aware of the product over the next few months while it is in development so why not use this as advertising, and get more people to spread the word. Secondly, the things they are offering aren't particular expensive but many people will appreciate them, so it is a nice way to thank people for sponsoring and extensively promoting the project for the last few weeks. These chaps are ready to support cabs, etc and I am pretty sure Ade will frequently drop by on these forums to get feedback from us, so come on lets make them welcome . When you look back at what they created back in 1995 you can be pretty confident that they are going to release something pretty special early next year.

Another positive from this campaign is Bobby King from Farsight Studios mentioned the Pro-Pinball kickstarter in a recent interview and about how Pat Lawlor was going to design an original table. He said how it was a great idea and that other Pinball Design Legends will hopefully do the same.

[sleepy]

I've been dreaming of pinball machine recreations produced by Pro Pinball for 17 years now.

Can we have another month?

[PainkillerAlice]

How does something like this cost $400,000 (minimum?)?

[settingsons]

How does something like this cost $400,000 (minimum?)?

Programming is a time-consuming process, so 4-5 months salaries of a team of programmers/artists salaries plus premises, etc it is a big risk for a small software house.

Rather than take a gamble on Pro-Pinball being successful they could just pick up a Nintendo contract where the money is guaranteed. At least the Kick starter gives them an idea if the project is worthwhile.

[unclewilly]

Honestly how much does a programer get paid?
My brother is in software development and he makes about 135000 a year. Im fairly certain recoding the physics engine alone to be compatible with all the platforms would take a year. Then you would need to pay the modelers to model the tables. Then the graphic artists to revamp the graphics. Another programer to revamp the actual game rom code to work on multipul platfirms.
That would be just for the revamped original 4 tables.
This on top of the standard business overhead such as office rental space, electric, internet, etc.

Once you add in pat lawlor getting paid for designing the new table plus the art i dont see how 400000 k is that large of a number for a project that would take about a year to comete.

I could be wrong.

I mean if it were that cheap to code a pin sim im sure our community would have raised money to have vp updated to work with dx 9 at least

[rob046]

This whole topic leaves me scratching my head.
400k...they are insane. VP Forever!!!!
Geez...give guys like JP, UncleWilly, LordHiyru, and the COUNTLESS others who can make a pinball remake like no other money to make a game for pete's sake!!!!
Future of pinball : 1) VP 2) Pinball Arcade 3) Jersey jack.

....notice I didn't mention Stern or this project...

Are you serious? Did you really just say all that? Ugh.
Here we go. OK, first off, I love our authors here & I'm glad to be one of them. However, we have a program we use to build these games, a program that already exists & that we don't have to try to program & improve. An old program & while its been updated its core is ancient. We also don't have to deal with licensing issues which is always a borderline legal issue.
I consider it a privilege that we get to build real, licensed tables. I believe all authors feel this way, which is why nobody ever complains about doing this for free. We aren't selling games here, & never will. This is a completely different situation. Pro Pinball is a team of guys who try to make a living doing this stuff. For us, its just a spare time hobby.

& the Pro Pinball engine, I'm sorry but it blows VP out of the water. I mean... I won't doubt if these new tables somehow play even better than the real thing! & did you see the WIP screenshot of Timeshock? Last I checked, nobody is doing tables that look like that for VP.
Yet, VP is better than ever. The physics, with enough TLC, can be pretty outstanding. But there is always something that keeps them from becoming fully realistic, & it may always be that way. VP will likely never be the flashiest or best pinball available, but we love it because it is an editor we all can play with.

& I can't let you get away with ranking Pinball Arcade behind VP, & not even putting PP on your "future of pinball" list. Pinball Arcade is doing officially licensed stuff, which is awesome. It is both capable of more than VP visually as well as physics. Yes its buggy at times, but can we really complain about that when every VPM table has bugs & updates as well?

So funny that you think Pro Pinball has no future.... despite the fact that most people feel that Pro Pinball are the best looking & playing simulations in the history of digital pinball... & those tables were made in the 90's!!! So just imagine how these remakes are gonna be. Mind blowing, to say the least. Mind blowing to where even in another 20 years, these remakes might still be considered the best digital pinball ever made, regardless of age. These tables are game changers, they will impact the state of digital pinball more than anything else. Period. So yes, I think they have a future:)

Edited by rob046, 04 October 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[JavaJack]

Im fairly certain recoding the physics engine alone to be compatible with all the platforms would take a year.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaybe. More likely the math bits could just be run though that platform's C compiler as-is. I think front-ends for each, which WOULD be unique for each platform, would eat more time. But that's just speculation.

[sephiroth86]

Looks like the Pro Pinball guys have given their first interview since the campaign failed:

http://www.redbull.c...021243269547750

Surprisingly, Barritt says he's going to try Kickstarter again. Lower budget this time, but no Android support. There goes my phone upgrade...

[Mr. Pacman]

Looks like the Pro Pinball guys have given their first interview since the campaign failed:http://www.redbull.c...021243269547750Surprisingly, Barritt says he's going to try Kickstarter again. Lower budget this time, but no Android support. There goes my phone upgrade...

That's great! Don't worry about the android version...Android still has a lot of latency for simulators with sound events etc, portable devices are quite small and there are no tangible controls...I remind you that we talk about a proper simulator and not about another one pinball themed family game. Proper pinball simulation without a big screen and tangible controls is not fun at all. Latency plays a huge role too....I think my bluetooth PC keyboard has less latency than my Galaxy Nexus phone and it's still annoying to play Visual Pinball with it.

Edited by Mr. Pacman, 12 October 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[settingsons]

Looks like the Pro Pinball guys have given their first interview since the campaign failed:

http://www.redbull.c...021243269547750

Surprisingly, Barritt says he's going to try Kickstarter again. Lower budget this time, but no Android support. There goes my phone upgrade...

Great find sephiroth86! Its a shame they have to work on the other games first.

[maf]

Android still has a lot of latency for simulators with sound events etc, portable devices are quite small and there are no tangible controls...I remind you that we talk about a proper simulator and not about another one pinball themed family game. Proper pinball simulation without a big screen and tangible controls is not fun at all. Latency plays a huge role too....I think my bluetooth PC keyboard has less latency than my Galaxy Nexus phone and it's still annoying to play Visual Pinball with it.

I agree with you about the lack of decent controls on touchscreen devices. It's a big obstacle to enjoying mobile gaming. Even non action titles are awkward without the tactile response of proper buttons. How will the technology improve to make the experience more enjoyable? Is it possible with touch to achieve this? I do not know.

[Mr. Pacman]

How will the technology improve to make the experience more enjoyable? Is it possible with touch to achieve this? I do not know.

I guess something like that would do the job:

http://duo-games.com...cts/duo-pinball

...but, I really hate buying extras for a device that is considered an "extra" to my laptop and its battery will eventually "die" after 2-3 years and I will still have all of its expensive (as a whole) accessories lying around without use,especially if another better device of its kind will be released with totally different connectors...

Edit: "the Duo Pinball works exclusively with Gameprom games"

I'm sure that there are other similar controllers out there though...

Edited by Mr. Pacman, 13 October 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[maf]

How will the technology improve to make the experience more enjoyable? Is it possible with touch to achieve this? I do not know.

I guess something like that would do the job:

http://duo-games.com...cts/duo-pinball

...but, I really hate buying extras for a device that is considered an "extra" to my laptop and its battery will eventually "die" after 2-3 years and I will still have all of its expensive (as a whole) accessories lying around without use,especially if another better device of its kind will be released with totally different connectors...

Edit: "the Duo Pinball works exclusively with Gameprom games"

I'm sure that there are other similar controllers out there though...

Heh, that's neat. But it's only a temporary fix for an ongoing problem. And as you say, you are likely to end up with a cupboard full of obsolete bolt-on accessories.

[Baron Shadow]

I've been dreaming of pinball machine recreations produced by Pro Pinball for 17 years now.

Can we have another month?

I have a pro pinball cabinet (original) with the games Big Race USA and Fantastic Journey http://www.flippers....ei-vpin-nl.html (here you can see pics of the same cabinet) it even has nudge capability.
Would love to get all the PP games in someday but have to get a new pc in then and have to look if it's easy to get everything working.

I'm having a pinball cabinet with a 2 monitors setup and wouls like to play PP next to VP on it