118 replies to this topic

[chas]

post#98
I agree these are better settings, if not just to fix the problem where the flippers and those rails are completely in the wrong spot. But, the table is still lacking - the power on a backhand is not strong enough. Definitely an improvement though. I'll post your results.

By the way, you'll have to change the apron once you move the flippers and rails to the correct spot, otherwise the ball will get stuck.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

i used Alien Star because it was a good example.
flippers needed scaling to size and length.
rails were not aligned straigth.
they curved back up to the PF.
used the screen shot at IPDB.
general performance and the backhand was a definite improvement.
i dont recall moving the apron.
might be a good idea to move the apron and the wall down to get the right look.

scaling flippers to size, length, positioning, start and end angle is very important.
then use end angle position from 65/295, 67.5/292.5 and maybe as low as 70/290 and oblique if needed.

wouild like to hear from everyone including the authors.
did you try my suggestion for flipper scaling to size, length, start angle, end angle, aligning rails straight with the slings and flippers so the ball travels down the flipper return rails smooth to the flipper?

Edited by chas, 29 December 2011 - 10:28 PM.

[moondrummer78]

Just thought I'd add my findings to this discussion. A few weeks ago I started messing around with the settings that Groni put into his new Banzai Run (closest to real world feel yet, in my opinion) and I came across what I feel to be really darn close to perfect settings. I keep playing with the numbers and reading all these physics threads and I think it's getting even closer. Anyway, I just played Uncle Remus' new Star Trek with these and it felt EXACTLY like the real machine. Here are the numbers:

Speed: 0.25
Strength: 2.5
Elast: 0.65
Scatter Angle: -11
Return Strength: 0.09
Recoil: 2.5
Power Law: 1
Oblique: 4

One thing that seems to have really driven home the realism is he set Global Difficulty to 1 and Dampening Speed to 100. This works great on these older Bally tables. Try these numbers out on Fathom, or Mata Hari and I think you'll agree.

For newer tables, I'm still dialing it in, but it seems like bumping flipper strength up to 3 and dropping Dampening speed to 50 is getting it pretty close (keeping all other numbers where they are).

Edited by moondrummer78, 30 December 2011 - 08:28 PM.

[unclewilly]

uncle remus not unclewilly

[moondrummer78]

uncle remus not unclewilly

Whoops! Sorry about that chief.

[JavaJack]

I can easily think of at least 5 parameters just to describe how a solenoid works.

Can you elaborate?
My "knows just enough math to be dangerous" thoughts are to just use time/distance spline curves for the upstroke and downstroke.

[analog999]

I can easily think of at least 5 parameters just to describe how a solenoid works.

Can you elaborate?
My "knows just enough math to be dangerous" thoughts are to just use time/distance spline curves for the upstroke and downstroke.

It should just be a given acceleration from zero, until it hits the coil stop. The downstroke is gravity plus a constant if there is a spring applying a retraction force.

[ced]

Speaking of Whitewater.. from a guy's camping trip we did in October...


Pin strapped to the back of my motorhome


In play! (I'm taking the photo, so I'm not pictured)

Play pinball in camping it's excellent !!
I like this photo !!

ced.

[JAM0]

Just to confirm that the Gilligan's Island settings are working great now that I spent some time with it! Was able to collect the ingredients, create the seltzer and kick Kona's ass 3 times in one game -- along with getting 4 50mil jackpots. I was never able to do it one time with the prior settings

[thewool]

Hello Analog - long time no new settings, what gives? Only joking Don't forget to take a look at your friends Earthshaker next time you see him...

I finally tried out the Whitewater settings last night. I would say the changes make a significant difference, the game has more of the flow it was renowned for I agree though that whirlpool ramp is still clunky. I wonder if taking the friction of the ramp wall will make any difference or maybe add a kicker to help it get up the ramp...

One comment on WW, with the new flipper settings I can't hit the Lost Mine, except by accident. Is this the same on your real machine? I remember the Extra Ball shot being tricky on the real machine but I can make this one ok.

Also you've mentioned BTTF as an example of being ok and requiring no changes. Are you referring to the angles of the shots of the general phyics overall? To me the flipper strength/speed still needs some balancing as a hit with the fat end of the flipper send the ball up to the top end of the PF.

Thanks for the work you've done in this thread. It really is a good place to help us understand how to customise things to suit our own memory of the games. Let's all keep the discussion going

Cheers :

Edited by thewool, 21 January 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[analog999]

Hello Analog - long time no new settings, what gives? Only joking Don't forget to take a look at your friends Earthshaker next time you see him...

I finally tried out the Whitewater settings last night. I would say the changes make a significant difference, the game has more of the flow it was renowned for I agree though that whirlpool ramp is still clunky. I wonder if taking the friction of the ramp wall will make any difference or maybe add a kicker to help it get up the ramp...

One comment on WW, with the new flipper settings I can't hit the Lost Mine, except by accident. Is this the same on your real machine? I remember the Extra Ball shot being tricky on the real machine but I can make this one ok.

Also you've mentioned BTTF as an example of being ok and requiring no changes. Are you referring to the angles of the shots of the general phyics overall? To me the flipper strength/speed still needs some balancing as a hit with the fat end of the flipper send the ball up to the top end of the PF.

Thanks for the work you've done in this thread. It really is a good place to help us understand how to customise things to suit our own memory of the games. Let's all keep the discussion going

Cheers :

This thread is not dead, I have just been too busy lately to get to my vpin. Barely playing real pinball as it is the last few weeks.

Lost mine is a difficult shot on the real game, but it should be doable. It's almost as difficult as the extra ball shot. I'm not totally happy with my Wh20 settings by any means. I agree, the bigfoot bluff shot is clunky. I think it might have more to do with the angles of the ramp, but I don't know. I always spent my time just trying to get the flippers feeling good, figured ramp could be fixed later. The plunge ramp is not very accurate IMO either.

If you think back to the future needs help then by all means submit us some new data to try. I think it does fairly well though. I try to do settings that are both power and angle, so general physics overall.

[JAM0]

I also wanted to mention that I think that Bram Stoker's Dracula by JP and also modded by Jimmy Fingers feels good the way it is. All shots are hittable and repeatable. Also the flipper response is really fast, which I love. Feels virtually as fast as real pinball on my rig.

[thewool]

Thanks analog, I'll post up some BTTF settings. I don't own the real machine but it will be interesting to try and compare.

JAM0 - I meant to mention to you in the other thread. You should try and seek out the movie of Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992, Francis Ford Coppola). I watched it as a result of getting into the pinball game and thought it was great and you'll recognise some of the soundbites such as "Welcome to the Carpathians....". Will make you feel more like a Vampire Hunter when playing the game!!!

[JAM0]

Thanks analog, I'll post up some BTTF settings. I don't own the real machine but it will be interesting to try and compare.

JAM0 - I meant to mention to you in the other thread. You should try and seek out the movie of Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992, Francis Ford Coppola). I watched it as a result of getting into the pinball game and thought it was great and you'll recognise some of the soundbites such as "Welcome to the Carpathians....". Will make you feel more like a Vampire Hunter when playing the game!!!

Good idea -- will do. I recently watched scarface again after 20+ years due to that table coming out I was amazed at how much I remembered of the movie

Edited by JAM0, 22 January 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[RipleYYY]

Speaking of Whitewater.. from a guy's camping trip we did in October...


Pin strapped to the back of my motorhome


In play! (I'm taking the photo, so I'm not pictured)

Play pinball in camping it's excellent !!
I like this photo !!

ced.

yep... btw, next time bring FRONTIER in place WH2O

[analog999]

I'm sorry to be neglecting this thread. I can only work on these when I have time and lately time has been difficult to find. I did add a new section to the original post - a "to do list" of games I feel need some kind of attention, even if minor. If anyone wants to work on those games to come up with better settings, I'm all ears. Also, if you think there is a game that plays funny, let me know so I can add it to the to do list.

[pilky]

i think thiis topic would be great if its had its own settings for different tables as in vp 8 vp 9 fs / ws / or just other pinball machines i joined this topic and had to go to 1st page only to realise it was fs tables you was talking about.. .....

[JAM0]

I would think these settings will work equally well on a non-FS version by the same author that came out at the same time. Like JP -- he releases/updates FS and non-FS versions at the same time. I believe the same flippers settings work equally well on both.

[chas]

hmmm,,,is it not maybe risking damage to a PB machine electronics and maybe the glass on the PF and the BackGlass to carry it on the back bumper of an RV or motorhome?
what if someone like a drunk clobbers it from behind and the bouncing around on the bumper.
i would not do that.
i would put it inside the RV on the floor.

[analog999]

hmmm,,,is it not maybe risking damage to a PB machine electronics and maybe the glass on the PF and the BackGlass to carry it on the back bumper of an RV or motorhome?
what if someone like a drunk clobbers it from behind and the bouncing around on the bumper.
i would not do that.
i would put it inside the RV on the floor.

If one could fit it through the door, that would be ideal, unfortunately it's way too wide for a RV door. You could probably only get it into one of those toy haulers that have the back open up for ATVs and Motorcycles. It wasn't on the back bumper, it was on one of those hitch racks, tied down securely. The campground is only 15 minutes from my house as well. I think someone behind me would be more aware of it than anything else - how often do you see a pinball machine mounted on the back of a motorhome?