2044 replies to this topic

[gear323]

 

 

A question about the HW tho. I'm sure this will get optimized quite a bit in future but for now I just wonder if anyone is able to run tables smoothly with multiballs and all? My rig handles it ok up to 2 or 3 balls but above that it's a no go and Rift CV1 drops framerate from 90 to 45 which looks horrid (head tracking continues to be smooth but balls update at 45 fps). Some tables like Metallica (HauntFreaks 1.5) wont switch to 90 ever.

 

That's an Oculus issue ASW kicking in forcing it to 45fps and trying to predict frames, try hitting control+numpad1 ingame to disable it, unfortunately there is currently no other way to disable it than manually hitting that each game.

 

 

Thanks, but don't think it's ASW's fault as such but more like that my rig can't sustain close to 90 fps on some tables / in some situations and then ASW trying to save the day. Same thing happens in e.g. Indiana Jones NZ&TT when there's over 3 balls in play. Up till that it's all fine.

 

 

 

 

A question about the HW tho. I'm sure this will get optimized quite a bit in future but for now I just wonder if anyone is able to run tables smoothly with multiballs and all? My rig handles it ok up to 2 or 3 balls but above that it's a no go and Rift CV1 drops framerate from 90 to 45 which looks horrid (head tracking continues to be smooth but balls update at 45 fps). Some tables like Metallica (HauntFreaks 1.5) wont switch to 90 ever.

 

That's an Oculus issue ASW kicking in forcing it to 45fps and trying to predict frames, try hitting control+numpad1 ingame to disable it, unfortunately there is currently no other way to disable it than manually hitting that each game.

 

 

Thanks, but don't think it's ASW's fault as such but more like that my rig can't sustain close to 90 fps on some tables / in some situations and then ASW trying to save the day. Same thing happens in e.g. Indiana Jones NZ&TT when there's over 3 balls in play. Up till that it's all fine.

 

 

Hi Sniiki, 

 

I would say you are probably 100 percent correct in saying that your hardware can't keep up so the Oculus ASW is kicking in and locking you at 45FPS and making synthetic frames.   I could be wrong but I believe what Rawnie is saying is that you may have a better experience with disabling ASW than letting it kick in and try to draw these synthetic frames.        

 

Also If you buy a 8700k or higher and a 2080Ti maybe you won't have the issue without disabling ASW.  Don't forget that for VR the game has to be rendered twice (once for each eye) so while performance improvements may come with optimizations, I would expect the VR version to always have higher hardware requirements than the non VR version of VP.     Well unless we get VR hardware with really good eye tracking and foveated rendering one day. 

 

Lastly, as a test try lowering your SS settings in Steam to 90%.   While the game probably won't look that good I bet it plays fine in multiball.   If so, maybe SS of 100 or 110 would be better for you until you upgrade your hardware.  Or maybe a combination if lowering your SS some and also disabling ASW will work best.      

Edited by gear323, 20 October 2019 - 06:07 PM.

[sniiki]

Thanks gear323. I'm quite well aware of VR tech in general and as stated have been using helmets since DK2. Original question tho was simply if anyone is atm achieving smooth gameplay on this alpha release with any HW at all

I have no need as such to update my semi-fossil hw if it makes no difference for VPVR as everything else still runs fine on it (utility sw and the few games I play like Assetto Corsa in VR).

 

The example table (Metallica HF 1.5) runs at barely 60 fps AWS disabled so no, not even close. Ctrl + 1 btw doesn't seem to work anymore, at least not for me. They might have removed the kb shortcut. I use Oculus Tray Tool to disable ASW.

Edited by sniiki, 20 October 2019 - 07:13 PM.

[gear323]

If you set your SS to 100% can you get 90FPS in Metallica HF 1.5)?

 

 

I just tried this game with my Valve Index and I got 90 FPS consistently even with two ball multiball. Never saw it miss even one frame. 

 

8700k and 1080Ti

Edited by gear323, 20 October 2019 - 08:31 PM.

[Rawnei]

Drawing stereo is actually not so expensive, it's done quite efficiently in the shader but right now VPVR is suffering from having a lot of drawcalls per frame affecting performance, it can be optimized but it's beyond my layman skills.

 

Regarding Oculus AWS your experience will be much better by disabling it, the frame prediction in AWS 1.0 creates weird aliased artifacts making things look really weird and appear "laggy". AWS 2.0 is supposed to be better but that won't work at all in VPVR/SteamVR as you need to pass depth data which you currently can't (well it's not documented how to do that anyway I've asked on SteamVR git discussion) so it will default to AWS 1.0.

Edited by Rawnei, 20 October 2019 - 09:56 PM.

[WilsonB]

I'm surprised a RTX 2070 would lag with those system specs.
I'm personally getting ready for the RTX 2070 Super O a i9 k9700 and a Quest. Will mod and use xArcade Tanks tick for pinbox
I hope good instructions and documentation will be posted in near future.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[gear323]

I'm surprised a RTX 2070 would lag with those system specs.
I'm personally getting ready for the RTX 2070 Super O a i9 k9700 and a Quest. Will mod and use xArcade Tanks tick for pinbox
I hope good instructions and documentation will be posted in near future.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

From what I have read, Oculus quest will work on PC in the future with the link cable but its not going to be as good as something like a Valve index or even an Oculus Rift S or Samsung odyssey. The video will be compressed and I believe even lower than the Quest native resolution. There will also be more latency than a PC VR headset.  While its much better than no VR support for PC, its probably not going to be ideal compared to a real PC VR headset that sends video directly. Basically I would not buy a Quest just to play PC VR pinball.  If you already have one or if you want to do mobile VR and some PC VR on the side then it's a good choice.  I happen to have an Index as well as a Quest so i'll be buying the link cable once it is available to check it out though!

Also If you have the skills and the time, Id highly recommend the Pinsim build (featured on the Tested website). It supports dual contact leaf switches, analog nudging, a real analog pinball plunger (with easy deadzone removal on the fly), ximput force feedback that works with any pc game that supports an Xbox gamepad and it is not that expensive to build.

Build instructions:

https://www.tested.c...inball-machine/

Video of updated version:

https://youtu.be/TLYIEm9kkvU

Just to add to that, this PinSim also works with PinballFX3, PinballFX2VR, Stern Pinball Arcade VR etc. Even the analog plunger, force feedback and analog table nudging work in these games

Edited by gear323, 22 October 2019 - 03:41 AM.

[sniiki]

If you set your SS to 100% can you get 90FPS in Metallica HF 1.5)?

 

 

I just tried this game with my Valve Index and I got 90 FPS consistently even with two ball multiball. Never saw it miss even one frame. 

 

8700k and 1080Ti

Nope. SS makes no difference at all whether I set it to 100 or 300. FPS remains at exactly same range (45-60 AWS off). Again, therefore the original question about CPU as it seems CPU related like a lot of things in VP. Don't know which element exactly it is that stresses it but some tables seem to have more of them than others. This Metallica table runs at 90 FPS until rom test finishes and lights lit up. Then it starts to jump between 50 and 90 and when game is started drops to that 45-60.

It might be some compatibility issue too if you are getting really different frame rates.

 

Drawing stereo is actually not so expensive, it's done quite efficiently in the shader but right now VPVR is suffering from having a lot of drawcalls per frame affecting performance, it can be optimized but it's beyond my layman skills.

 

Regarding Oculus AWS your experience will be much better by disabling it, the frame prediction in AWS 1.0 creates weird aliased artifacts making things look really weird and appear "laggy". AWS 2.0 is supposed to be better but that won't work at all in VPVR/SteamVR as you need to pass depth data which you currently can't (well it's not documented how to do that anyway I've asked on SteamVR git discussion) so it will default to AWS 1.0.

Yeah AWS seems to suit for some applications better than others. But like stated it doesn't seem to make ball movement smooth at all while it does smoothen head tracking(?) Therefore again think this is something else.

 

I'm surprised a RTX 2070 would lag with those system specs.
I'm personally getting ready for the RTX 2070 Super O a i9 k9700 and a Quest. Will mod and use xArcade Tanks tick for pinbox
I hope good instructions and documentation will be posted in near future.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

And again, I too don't think it's the GPU that's stumbling here and hence the original question.

Edited by sniiki, 24 October 2019 - 06:49 PM.

[Rawnei]

 

Yeah AWS seems to suit for some applications better than others. But like stated it doesn't seem to make ball movement smooth at all while it does smoothen head tracking(?) Therefore again think this is something else.

 

 

Well you did say that it drops to 45fps which is a very clear indicator that AWS is kicking in, if that is the case things will look really bad and appear to perform bad.

 

You also said you have 150% supersampling in steamvr, have you set it to 100% in VPVR? Make sure it's only supersampling at one place otherwhise it will be additive and will affect performance a lot.

 

Not sure what other advice to give you, I think your setup probably outperform mine and I don't have those kind of problems and I've got an index with even higher hmd resolution.

[blindpeser]

https://www.vpforums...showtopic=39670

This tool gives me a slight performance boost during multiball on some tables.

[sniiki]

 

 

Yeah AWS seems to suit for some applications better than others. But like stated it doesn't seem to make ball movement smooth at all while it does smoothen head tracking(?) Therefore again think this is something else.

 

 

Well you did say that it drops to 45fps which is a very clear indicator that AWS is kicking in, if that is the case things will look really bad and appear to perform bad.

 

You also said you have 150% supersampling in steamvr, have you set it to 100% in VPVR? Make sure it's only supersampling at one place otherwhise it will be additive and will affect performance a lot.

 

Not sure what other advice to give you, I think your setup probably outperform mine and I don't have those kind of problems and I've got an index with even higher hmd resolution.

 

 

Yes, but like stated head tracking stays smooth (panning and tilting isn't stuttery at all) but the ball updates more like 25-30fps rate. Like the AWS wouldn't affect to drawn balls. Super sampling active only from Steam, not from VP, not from Oculus or anywhere else. Clearly able to verify it too as the shimmering is really bad with Steam set to 100%.

Like said, it's probably some weird compatibility problem in my case. Would be too painful to do fresh Windows install on this PC for now as I use this one for mainly other stuff but gaming. My pin cab has quite similar HW but CPU is non K-version, so no real overclocking and GPU is old GTX970. That one did a good job with 4K but VR might be too much for it. Anyway, the original question was answered and I shouldn't need a more powerful CPU at this point. Maybe I'll give it a go with RTX2070 on the other rig.

 

https://www.vpforums...showtopic=39670

This tool gives me a slight performance boost during multiball on some tables.

Thanks, was unaware of this tool. Unfortunately didn't work at all for me. Launching the exe pretty much killed every other process, even the mouse cursor on desktop. Oculus home either stuttered badly or died before I was able to launch VPVR. Tested with and without hyperthreading. Didn't play much with the settings tho.

Edited by sniiki, 26 October 2019 - 09:22 AM.

[blindpeser]

Did you read the instructions? You have to declare tasks that are pinball related. And you have define how many cpu cores work for those tasks only. If everythings runs slow/bad, you really should check the settings. There are commands that depends on how many cores you have. You have to dig a bit deeper to get the correct settings for your system.

My rig is a slightly ocerclocked 4790K and a slightly overclocked 1080. All tables run smooth but the newest Cirqus Voltaire during multiball.

I had some problems with my Rift. My Odyssey+ runs smoother. The Oculus software seems pretty demanding.

Edited by blindpeser, 26 October 2019 - 12:40 PM.

[otro5]

Dear all;

 

Dear friend,

 

For DMD Colorized a possible problem is dmddevice.dll, I was using 1.7.1 version if you go to

 

https://github.com/f...nsions/pull/152

 

you can find 1.7.3 that improves things a lot.

[sniiki]

Did you read the instructions?

Yup I did.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Edited by sniiki, 27 October 2019 - 01:34 PM.

[blindpeser]

Ok, the result is weird then. Does your run cpu run in turbo boost mode all time?

[sniiki]

If by turbo you mean the max clock I've set from bios, then yes. Not jumping between that and some power saving frequency. I don't use any automatic turbo boosts. Windows shows some bogus clocks but 4.5 is what it actually runs under load.

CPU load stays at the same range, around 70-80% for about all tables, also for this Metallica. GPU load stays below 50%. Still Oculus performance hud shows around -20% overhead for Metallica and application dropped frames counter runs non stop.

Didn't mention earlier but I don't have B2S server running or anything else. Just VPVR and Mame from default all in one installer. I did try with B2S installed and it really killed the performance on all tables.

 

[blindpeser]

I am no professional, but those bogus clocks maybe represent the frame drops. The tool I mentioned gives a more stable clock for the cores that are responsable for all pinball related tasks. Please check your bios, if you "combined" (dont remember the correct the options name) all cores for a higher clock. If you did, uncheck the option and try the tool again.

Edited by blindpeser, 27 October 2019 - 04:29 PM.

[sniiki]

Task manager showing made up frequencies seems to be pretty common issue and didn't find any reason to dig deeper into that. Like said, my clocks stay up all the time so it's not that. I don't have anything like what you mentioned activated from bios. Tried to give only 2 cores for VPVR and 2 for the rest but still made steamvr stutter and crash. I disabled oculus home2 and etc. etc. but no luck. I don't have performance issues in other apps and other games run just as well as they should with this setup. I'm able to play most of tables fine too, it's just some that are for some reason unplayable. Newest CV runs ok otherwise except when flashers activate. Those seem to be kryptonite for the engine.

Edited by sniiki, 27 October 2019 - 05:26 PM.

[blindpeser]

Yeah, it is the flasher on CV, which is activated during mb mostly.

Ok, I just tried to help. Your system seems to be more powerful than mine. And I got problems on CV only.

[sniiki]

Appreciate all the help. Looks like it's a clean reinstall ahead *sigh*.

[gear323]

Even though VR is still kind of niche, I find it very surprising that nobody is offering pre built fully loaded VR pinball cabinets or even a flat pack or a barebones built cabinet. Any commercial virtual pinball cabinet builders out there reading this thread?

There are more and more people getting interested but may not have the woodworking or electronic skills to build a VR cabinet of their own.

Edited by gear323, 30 October 2019 - 12:34 PM.