146 replies to this topic

[T-800]

Kickstarter.... innovative and retarded all at the same time. One could argue they should use the profits from their other table releases to fund the license or create more tables to generate enough revenue to do so. One could also argue that this program is more closely tied to a "pre-order," something most everyone is familiar with. Personally, I think it's bad business. I'd rather see them develop as a company, release the games they can and then decide if the license truly warrants that kind of investment. Essentially they're treating this pinball community as a big bank, but without the background check and business model required to get a loan from a normal banking institution. Some people like being part of an experiment - I prefer not to, especially when it may hit me financially...

In anycase, god bless 'em; they're trying something new to advance their business - if you like it donate, if you don't, no biggie either. Capitalism is a wonderful thing.

[ChainZaw]

This is how I see it, I spent a whole lotta money playing TZ at my local arcade room. Would it kill me to spend 10$ more to play it till the end of time? IMO its a very good deal. What I think Farsight should have done is release a game whit all the tables in their 2 previous games and then offer us new dlc. I paid for Pinball Hall of Fame and Gottlieb Pinball Classics, why should I pay for all those tables again? Thats my only beef whit the company.

[Rawd]

Kickstarter.... innovative and retarded all at the same time. One could argue they should use the profits from their other table releases to fund the license or create more tables to generate enough revenue to do so. One could also argue that this program is more closely tied to a "pre-order," something most everyone is familiar with. Personally, I think it's bad business. I'd rather see them develop as a company, release the games they can and then decide if the license truly warrants that kind of investment. Essentially they're treating this pinball community as a big bank, but without the background check and business model required to get a loan from a normal banking institution. Some people like being part of an experiment - I prefer not to, especially when it may hit me financially...

In anycase, god bless 'em; they're trying something new to advance their business - if you like it donate, if you don't, no biggie either. Capitalism is a wonderful thing.

This is what I was trying to say.

[jrolson]

Now up to 51% until the goal in only 2 days! Big thanks to the supporters!

[settingsons]

Kickstarter.... innovative and retarded all at the same time. One could argue they should use the profits from their other table releases to fund the license or create more tables to generate enough revenue to do so. One could also argue that this program is more closely tied to a "pre-order," something most everyone is familiar with. Personally, I think it's bad business. I'd rather see them develop as a company, release the games they can and then decide if the license truly warrants that kind of investment. Essentially they're treating this pinball community as a big bank, but without the background check and business model required to get a loan from a normal banking institution. Some people like being part of an experiment - I prefer not to, especially when it may hit me financially...

In anycase, god bless 'em; they're trying something new to advance their business - if you like it donate, if you don't, no biggie either. Capitalism is a wonderful thing.

I know what you are saying and in some ways I agree, however I am trying to think about the situation they may be in. They have probably aleady taken quite a large financial gamble acquiring all the other licences without having a clue how the game would be received by the public and how it would sell. After all, they have plans to produce around 40-50 tables having done 8 already, and maybe... just maybe a 55K investment for one licence for one table is too big a risk that they just cannot absorb. Maybe it would have been better for them to raise some revenue from their other tables first to finance the TZ licence, but we don't know the circumstances. If TPA hasn't been selling well (and I have no idea how many 'purchased' downloads they have had), then maybe they are hoping TZ will bring it to the public eye and boost sales of other tables.

Edited by settingsons, 21 May 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[jrolson]

You guys talk like they are making hundreds of thousands of dollars on revenue when in fact they make very little, after all the licensing fees and expenses (payroll, buying the actual pinball machines, bandwidth for hosting the tables, taxes, ect.) they barely make any profit...

Edited by jrolson, 21 May 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[zoltar420]

Once these guys get all their licenses and funds in the bank, whats the chance that they will attempt to shut down VP and FP? After all VP and FP are their main competition and VP and FP are free.

[TheMcD]

Pretty sure only Williams, STERN et al. have the right to shut us down like that. They only get the right to use the licenses for commercial use, not enforce potential infringement on that license. Basically, the way I see it, they get a license for the license and that's it.

[epthegeek]

I'd rather see them develop as a company, release the games they can and then decide if the license truly warrants that kind of investment.

I'm kind of in this frame of mind. Personally, I'd prefer if they'd churn out more non-licensed tables (because there are SO many great ones to choose from) to build up the foundation. Maybe by then they could afford to take the costly risks themselves. But that's just what I'd wish.

They apparently think doing big name games earlier to build up the user base is important and think kickstarter is the way to try it. Best of luck to 'em.

[s1500]

Once these guys get all their licenses and funds in the bank, whats the chance that they will attempt to shut down VP and FP? After all VP and FP are their main competition and VP and FP are free.

I fail to see how it's competition when VP and FP aren't available on anything but Windows XP/7.

[zoltar420]

Once these guys get all their licenses and funds in the bank, whats the chance that they will attempt to shut down VP and FP? After all VP and FP are their main competition and VP and FP are free.

I fail to see how it's competition when VP and FP aren't available on anything but Windows XP/7.

They are making a PC version.. and It is supposed to have cabinet support... sounds like competition to me

[unclewilly]

if you play it and like it. just put a measley $10 toward it.
i dont think $10 is going to break anyone.
the more support they get from this community will only insure they will put out a kick ass pc version with the bells and whistles wed like to see like cabinet support.

i know the developers are regulars on this site.
if they had any intention of shutting us down it would have already been in the works.

[s1500]

They are making a PC version.. and It is supposed to have cabinet support... sounds like competition to me

But VP and FP are free. While that doesn't invalidate competition(Windows vs Linux), there's significant work you have to do for VP to run properly. Farsight's making a consumer product, not a hobbyist creation.

[eburgess4]

Just backed the project and posted a shout-out to vpforums! This is a golden opportunity to spread the news about VP!!

By the way, I have backed several projects on Kickstarter over the last few months and I am thrilled! What a great way to connect directly to potential customers and give them a voice in potential products. Great idea! I just wish I had thought of it first.

[ND3G]

why would we do this when we can play the FS version right here. I thought that one is pretty good already. And I own a real TZ.

Comments like this really get under my skin. The VP version of Twilight Zone is UNLICENCED! It is really easy to make a replica of a pinball table when you don't bother to pay any of the licencing fees or royalities.

I think what Farsight is doing is absolutley fantastic and those of us who are big pinball fans have enjoyed VP for free all these years should be first in line to support Farsight's efforts to bring pinball back to the masses.

Besides as fun as VP has been The Pinball Arcade blows it out of the water (in my opinion).

[ND3G]

My biggest problem is the "hallelujah attitude" regarding this company. It is just a company trying to make money.
What guys like Destruk, cupid, Noah, JP and all the other VP authors are doing is preservation of pinball. They are doing it all for free, share the code and only they are imo entitled to say they help preservation of pinball.
I am amazed how much support this initiative gets while it took so long to raise money to support the Unity project. Something I would gladly donate money to is to hire a VP dev full time for a couple of months.

Can they co-exist? Usually when money can be made by companies and a similar not licenced product is in the market companies will start taking action. So yes, I think sponsoring this action (or even buying) Pinball Arcade is a negative vote for VP.

I love VP but if Farsight and TPA were to somehow fail because of VP than I would be 100% behind getting rid of all the tables on VP modeled after real tables. The authors have no right to produce these tables. The fact that the industry has turned a blind eye and continues to do so is fantatstic but if it came down to a matter of survival or a question as to the viability of a product due to illegal knockoffs than the unlicenced versions of have to go.

[burnt_secondary]

if you play it and like it. just put a measley $10 toward it.
i dont think $10 is going to break anyone.
the more support they get from this community will only insure they will put out a kick ass pc version with the bells and whistles wed like to see like cabinet support.

i know the developers are regulars on this site.
if they had any intention of shutting us down it would have already been in the works.

UncleWilly,

If your in for $50 I can be in for 50.

Burnt_Secondary

[unclewilly]

ive backed it with $50.
scott jones on the backers tab

[cupid]

What guys like Destruk, cupid, Noah, JP and all the other VP authors are doing is preservation of pinball. They are doing it all for free, share the code and only they are imo entitled to say they help preservation of pinball.

Thanks! And thanks to all other supporters, devs, authors, webmasters, the community...

I love VP but if Farsight and TPA were to somehow fail because of VP than I would be 100% behind getting rid of all the tables on VP modeled after real tables. The authors have no right to produce these tables. The fact that the industry has turned a blind eye and continues to do so is fantatstic but if it came down to a matter of survival or a question as to the viability of a product due to illegal knockoffs than the unlicenced versions of have to go.

I personally bought all tables from farsight and i really like them.

I see the same problem:
If the unity thingy from luizou or my VPP will ever work, then game companies like farsight might see the problem, that the two markets will overlap more than at the moment - what would be a loss of money for the game companies - because of a group of people, releasing pinball tables that are not playable without a in 99.9% unlicensed rom - and with btw. unlicensed artwork on the tables.

The question is: will the markets really overlap? I don't think so. Most people who buy PA will not even know Visual Pinball. And more people don't know how to download, install and set up.
Hey, it's a console game (beside the Mac Version and a possible PC-Version on steam).

I really like how farsight presents themself on the net. I really believe that conservation of pinball is a side goal of the people working there. Of course the main goal is to make money (everybody has to live).

What i hate, are people on farsight's facebook page complaining about this and that bug, a missing graphic, release problems for DLC, and so on, in a way that is unfair to farsight. OK, they bought the tables, but they work 99% of the time. Yes, i had slight problems, too. My highscore on funhouse was not saved (and that was really good ;-) ), I had three balls in the plunger lane on another one table... But what the heck. Reset and continue with another game. That's why I play. And how often did i have to tilt a real machine to free the ball? Many times. So no problem. Thats physics.

What I think: The more pinball the better. If i had the opportinity to play VP-Tables in the quality (and i mean 3d..., play-quality is still often better in VP) of TPA, i would love to pay an Euro or more per table to the authors.

If there will be problems in future, we and farsight or whoever wil face it. But there are no problems now. Just continue to play pinball. If you want to have TZ on your iphone, donate. If you don't care, just don't care.

And maybe there will be a Pinball Construction Kit from farsight some time, if they really care about the preservation of pinballs...

I just read in a german computer news page an article about TPA and VP-Cabs:
http://www.heise.de/...ig-1577567.html
I bet we will see many new users in the near future.

[Slydog43]

wow over 32k already