203 replies to this topic

[The Loafer]

if black don't release a new build i'm sure someone will reverse engineer it so no worry...

This is very dangerous thinking. Let's be careful and not suggest this will ever be acceptable. Black is allowed his legal rights to his product and although I do not agree with what went down at his site, I will certainly support his right to protect his software. I can't speak for the heads of this forum, but I'm pretty sure they indicated a while back they would not support this type of discussion.

Anyway, just how difficult is it to change the clock on your pc anyway?

Present and accounted for!

I have so much in the works for FP, and I don't intend to stop now...but I'll post those in a different thread.

For those who haven't picked it up, a fully-integrated Pioneer (Gottlieb 1976 EM 2p) is available on IRP. It uses no external resources because I wanted to insure that it didn't blow up trying to link to things that don't exist yet. I intended it as a gesture of good faith that I'm still working on things.

I understand the enthusiasm, but FP belongs to Chris (Black) and there’s no way VPF will become the official home of FP, just not possible…

I disagree. If Black pulls the plug on his site, FP is not going to just vanish. He's pulled the plug on the forums.

I have a question for the FP Refugees here:

If the FP forums come back, who's going back there?

(Not I. I don't have time for unstable sites to hinder my communications. I'm moving my roots.)

Greywolf, the term "official" indicates support from the developper. Do you really think Chris will decide VPF can be the official site for his product? From what I understand, he wouldn't even let anyone mention the word "vpforums" on his message board!!! I don't see a problem with this site becoming THE site where most FP authors navigate too, I'm simply acknowledging what the term "official" means, but yeah from your description, we're agreeing on the same thing, this site can be the focal point.

[Noah Fentz]

Thanks for that, Loaf.

We would never support reverse engineering Future Pinball, Visual Pinball, or any other software. We are here to preserve and perpetuate the love of pinball, but reverse engineering goes too far.

It is awesome to see everyone here. So many names I've seen in the VP world that migrated to FP. Since I began in 2005, I haven't had the pleasure of getting to know many of you.

I look forward to a very FUN 2010!

[vartaxe]

Present and accounted for!

I have so much in the works for FP, and I don't intend to stop now...but I'll post those in a different thread.

For those who haven't picked it up, a fully-integrated Pioneer (Gottlieb 1976 EM 2p) is available on IRP. It uses no external resources because I wanted to insure that it didn't blow up trying to link to things that don't exist yet. I intended it as a gesture of good faith that I'm still working on things.

I understand the enthusiasm, but FP belongs to Chris (Black) and there’s no way VPF will become the official home of FP, just not possible…

I disagree. If Black pulls the plug on his site, FP is not going to just vanish. He's pulled the plug on the forums.

I have a question for the FP Refugees here:

If the FP forums come back, who's going back there?

(Not I. I don't have time for unstable sites to hinder my communications. I'm moving my roots.)

we need fpreleases with a forum

Anyway, just how difficult is it to change the clock on your pc anyway?

changing the clock is no fix... anyway we still have time until 2011

[Steve Paradis]

See people, We are the Future of pinball. All gathered for the cause.

Software is just a tool. And I'm sure, NEW EDITORS will surface soon (read between the line here ) Wathever name they have, whereEver they come from.
The Clock RollBack Fix is an easy and reliable one regarding the expiry of this version of FP and doesn't infringe any law. So don't be too concern about it and keep the Spirit High and Clear. I wil announce myself new projects in the upcoming weeks.

The era of "Kneel before the king" should be ending. we ALL brought something unique to the project, and it should measure equaly to the work injected into the software.
So being here on this day is showing the world how much we stand, united by our hobby.

Peace

Steve

[Gary Quiring]

I understand the enthusiasm, but FP belongs to Chris (Black) and there’s no way VPF will become the official home of FP, just not possible…

It is possible if the fans and developers don't use Black's forums. The more that is posted here the momentum begins and Black's forums will loose interest.

[Greywolf]

I understand the enthusiasm, but FP belongs to Chris (Black) and there’s no way VPF will become the official home of FP, just not possible…

It is possible if the fans and developers don't use Black's forums. The more that is posted here the momentum begins and Black's forums will loose interest.

Black's what?

[LvR]

Personally I hope that this is just a glitch in the forums, it has happened before, and that they will be up and running again soon. If not then well it was nice while it lasted. Fp is closed software, and as far as I can tell the guts have been created by a very clever one man team - if I have got this wrong then appols to those who were involved. Anyone who has designed a table will know that this takes a lot of time, so I can only guess how much time building the engine took.

If this is the end of Fp development, and I sincerely hope that it is not, then perhaps those out there who would like to have a 3d pinball emulator might like to consider putting an open project together. There have been attempts to do so in the past on Linux (Linball and Emilia being the two examples I have managed to find, though neither appear active projects) and there are many very successful open projects out there (Gimp, Scribus, Inkscape etc).

You would need some very good coders, and pinball is rather specialised, but there are folks out there who like this kind of challenge. I have no idea how you would start but looking at ODE (the open dynamics engine) is a thought.

A pinball engine + the editor is a lot of work.
IMHO, as a professional developer, I would go to better lib as Bullet Physics (I have been toying with it a few months ago), a complete graphic engine like OGRE, Qt for the editor, in a cross-plateform software development.
Unfortunately I've not enough time for such a project
And let's clarify the future of FP before starting a new and long simulation dev.

[Gravy]

Personally I hope that this is just a glitch in the forums, it has happened before, and that they will be up and running again soon. If not then well it was nice while it lasted. Fp is closed software, and as far as I can tell the guts have been created by a very clever one man team - if I have got this wrong then appols to those who were involved. Anyone who has designed a table will know that this takes a lot of time, so I can only guess how much time building the engine took.

If this is the end of Fp development, and I sincerely hope that it is not, then perhaps those out there who would like to have a 3d pinball emulator might like to consider putting an open project together. There have been attempts to do so in the past on Linux (Linball and Emilia being the two examples I have managed to find, though neither appear active projects) and there are many very successful open projects out there (Gimp, Scribus, Inkscape etc).

You would need some very good coders, and pinball is rather specialised, but there are folks out there who like this kind of challenge. I have no idea how you would start but looking at ODE (the open dynamics engine) is a thought.

In the meantime. Good luck, hello and lets play pinball.

Its important to remember that FP was developed by more than just a one man team even although many people probably see it that way. Don't forget to give a huge thankyou to Lio for all those models otherwise we would just be looking at a blank playfield (as well as Steve for his unofficial models). Im sure the developers of Newton Physics engine also helped out along the way as well. Black's efforts were obviously huge but we have others to thank as well as him, not to mention the table creators who put in such a fantastic effort.

Edited by Gravy, 27 December 2009 - 10:38 PM.

[humid]

I discovered VP and FP at the same time about 3 years ago. And I've play tables on both nearly everyday since. I admit my venturing onto FP forums was minimal due to the reputation Black already had. To ban a person who has given as much as Steve has this year......speaks volumes. The drama between Slamtilt and all comers bothered me a bit, and I was pleased to see it resolved with the gift of R2D2( nicely done Steve).

This new dilemma has brought some great authors over to VPF, and I hope you all find a comfortable niche to carry on your creative flow right here. I know that Noah and Co will be pleased to provide whatever space the FP community needs. So good to see you guys here.

[pinball buzz]

quote "we have others to thank as well as him, not to mention the table creators who put in such a fantastic effort."

Well said Humid, without the authors there would be no point, as there would be no tables.

[ruckage]

Hello fellow refugees - room for one more?

Good to know these forums are here as I was a little shocked when I saw that the FPforums had vanished. I haven't been very active as far as developing for FP goes for the last few years but had just gotten back into it (Steve gave me nudge ). I really hope that Chris will carry on supporting FP or failing that release a version without expiry but that would mean relinquishing some control on his part so I can't see that happening. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[kruge99]

...I look forward to a very FUN 2010!

This is the sentiment we should all carry forward for 2010 for both VP and FP - don't let one person (un-named) ruin our love of pinball.


Best Regards,
Todd.

[settingsons]

Although a keen pinball enthusiast over the years I have been a fairly infrequent visitor to these forums and the FP forums. In the past 3 months my interests in PC based pinball have been re-ignited after seeing some of the amazing cabinet builds that are now possible using LCD screens - a way to finally play on a rectangular pinball (2D) playfield just like real pinball.

I have recently been thinking how fortunate we are to have two incredible pieces of pieces of software which allow such realistic tables to be created by our community. With pinball manufacturers disappearing and with Stern's financial problems I have been thinking this might be the only way to preserve pinball for the future. I don't know the background to the issues with FP and Black that seemed to exist, but to lose one of these mature pinball sims just because of personality clashes, etc. would be such a shame and waste of so much hard work from the developer and table creators.

There are a lot of programmers in the world but I expect there are not many with a passion for pinball and the skills and patience to maintain a project (for free) like Black has done (he was after all involved in VPs development as well). Lets hope that both FP and VP can continue to exist side by side.

Cheers

[Popotte]

See people, We are the Future of pinball. All gathered for the cause.

Software is just a tool

Sorry Steve, software is not just a tool. Chris make a beautifull software (not perfect, I agreed). You need men making that. And I repeat, for me, you doesn't be banned, obviously. Randy is a strange guy too, an other strange guy... Without David and Brian, VP would be an ever VP 8... And without Chris and Randy, you have just nothing concerning pinball emulation. Hard without just a tool to create or recreate a table, isn't it? I'm with you, but Chris have developped a nice "tool". Maybe I'm an old man but it's strange... a lot of people now know VPForum. If you have a look to the FP forum, I'm not the only one but who post WIP's and/or release? Not a lot, it's obvious. Just a question: why? I like pinball so I post on a lot of forums (FP, VP and 3 others french sites, on FPRelease, on IRPInball). I never say VP is bad, FP is good (or the reverse). I really like some creators , doesn' tmatter their name and/or if it's VP or FP tables. I'm not angry. Just thinking... I have other hobby. Making a table is a lot of work. Why I have to continue. I like EM but I like SS and dots. I just recreate mostly EM only because others want to recreate SS and dots and because originals are hard for me. But why and how long... And for what... But, it's an other question.

And I'm sure, NEW EDITORS will surface soon (read between the line here ) Wathever name they have, whereEver they come from.
The Clock RollBack Fix is an easy and reliable one regarding the expiry of this version of FP and doesn't infringe any law. So don't be too concern about it and keep the Spirit High and Clear. I wil announce myself new projects in the upcoming weeks.

Happy if new editors will surface, really! But don't speak about date expiry. It's simple to resolve (just adjust your PC time ) or just hacking...

The era of "Kneel before the king" should be ending. we ALL brought something unique to the project, and it should measure equaly to the work injected into the software.
So being here on this day is showing the world how much we stand, united by our hobby.

Peace

You are a little bit angry here, isn'it? I'm really not "Knell before the King". And I never been "Kneel before something". But I understand you are a little upset... You are a good guy but little a strange guy too (no offense: I'm a strange guy too and I like strange guy too...)

Steve

Jean-Pierre aka Popotte

[LaughingOtter]

Well, I think I'm gonna go ahead and archive the tables on the FP site like I did the pinball-originals site, just in case. Too much good stuff could be lost otherwise!

[Steve Paradis]

Thank you Popotte, you are totally entitle to your opinion and I respect it very much. Bitter I'm not. Sad for such a brilliant mind as Chris to have repeating communication problem, Yes. This little discussion we both had who was just a couple of liners did ALL this..Imagine Steve Jobs pulling the plugs IPhone because one of the customer told him he didnt like the way business is done?

What I meant by "Kneel before the king", was strickly the following. Monopole of decision is not a good thing in any enterprise. When you are the only maker of decision about the life of a products and the host of the forum at the same time, it is fairly easy to keep everyone under the "my way or the highWay" spell.

Transpose that to anyday situation. Your one man doctor cabinet simply decide he don't come in, the one man postOffice decide that today is not a good day, the one man guy who own the world fuel see no more point in delivering fuel anymore,...I could go all day like that. when you are the only source were everyone goes for a drink, you have the power of thirst in your hand. not good.

We all work hard for this hobby, some of us put a lot of time and even a lot of money into it. We deserve to be secured about our investments. Know that it will go on and on.
I would be very much troubled if I had to explain to my wife that all the family money I spent in this fun idea I sold her, was to hit a brick wall because of one person that "doesn't feel like it anymore". I know A LOT of you are in the same position.

Regards,


Steve

[Greywolf]

And without Chris and Black, you have just nothing concerning pinball emulation.

erm. Chris is Black...

[Popotte]

And without Chris and Black, you have just nothing concerning pinball emulation.

erm. Chris is Black...

Corrected... Chris and Randy...

[bigraceusa]

I have so much in the works for FP, and I don't intend to stop now...

I have a question for the FP Refugees here:

If the FP forums come back, who's going back there?

(Not I. I don't have time for unstable sites to hinder my communications. I'm moving my roots.)

I realy happy to read the first line! That's

I come to FP because I search for a Pinball to play a little bit more under Ubuntu (Linux, have Win7 here too). That's the way I found to FP (don't know to this time, that there is a Visual Pinball too).

Today I see it, with the same eyes as other software (for example here under Linux) that I use (have a future or all development stop, that's not important for me - be happy with the features it have today). For example FP I see it so:
I have the program, it has a editor, thank's to all the great table designer I have more tables I ever dream of (download only 30 - have hours of fun with only !!! 1 - ProPinball Big Race USA !!! and that's only 30... you have make more and I haven't try it out all.

I see a big future for VirtualPinball - with Visual and Future Pinball.


FuturePinball-Forum come back: I understand how Black has thinking (after reading the some lines here). It's a "personaly" thing to create a software and have a forum.
My CEO in the firm I work say "It's my child" - I think you know what I mean...
Back to topic I be more in Hyperpin-Forum for the last days. Because there are more "cab-worker" as in FP-forum. I have no "home" for my little text and pictures in realy bad english.
I'm here and there. But in this forum the "VPFORUMS.ORG" all is a little bit biger about pinball. I never found so much information about VirtualPinball, I found this forum very good!
It's not important to have one "home for our hobby" it's important to have "a home" it's the same in real live.
That's what I think when the FP-forum comes back, every user must know by it self where is "my home".

---before I buy me a slr-camera I read the following lines: "don't let us much time write in the forums - let's go out and take photos"---
For pinball I would say: Let us have more time with playing with our hobby "pinball".
The real life is going to fast and it's going to fast to end.

[Greywolf]

Well, I think I'm gonna go ahead and archive the tables on the FP site like I did the pinball-originals site, just in case. Too much good stuff could be lost otherwise!

Why bother? FPReleases is not likely to evaporate any time soon, nor is IRPinball.

...besides, FuturePinball.com doesn't store any tables there.