258 replies to this topic

[BorgDog]

I like ice cream.

[Noah Fentz]

I dont know where this good guy bad guy thing is coming from.... 
is there someone here that is calling Paul a bad guy in this thread??.... I know I didnt...
also i was mis-quoting... you're right , you're upholding a rule that was said to you by Gary....
which again is 100% understood and well respected here
as for it being a blanketed rule or request ... well that's just not how the world works
 
its kinda like someone saying.... "just because you have some milk i gave ya, dont make cheese out of it"....
i'm not looking to sell anyone's milk or my cheese... but ya cant ask the guy not to make it or share it with your friends.... its not even milk anymore...
 
no one here is cloning the dudes cow and selling the milk.... and out of respect for the guy thats friends with the dude with the cow... we don't share our cheese here...

Ummmm ... bullshit. I'm totally calling bullshit on that. It certainly IS how the world works. Gary stated he did NOT want new tables virtualized, no matter WHERE or WHO was doing it is irrelevant.

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[xenonph]

Xenomorph you ought to consider a career in professional shilling. There are political candidates that need your thoughtless devotion to agreements that you weren't a part of and may not even exist.

 

/ lol

 

I believe that this deal does exist. No I wasn't personally here to see the deal when it was made. Nor was I a part of it.

Apparantly If you dont see it then its not true? You can deny it all you want, thats your choice.  LOL

[Noah Fentz]

I know its perhaps not a popular stance, but I appreciate the role that Noah has played in keeping the VP ecosystem together and (as much as possible) non-antagonistic. Manufacturer's perception of vp as benign is critical to its continuation...so I'd exercise caution before anyone threatens that relationship.
 
Noah, one thing that I was wondering was whether there are any existing agreements with the Bally/Williams copyright holders as there is with Stern regarding remaking Bally/Williams tables. (sorry if that's slightly off topic)

As you can probably conclude, we're all good there. Between my discussions with Roger, my relationship with PPS and Farsight, as long as we're not using content for commercial use, they support what we do.

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[hauntfreaks]

All it takes is for Gary to notice, and sites will be receiving C&D's  <----I dont want to be smug , but i will...

just like the music industry shutting down napster... it will do nothing....

WE ALL have backups of backup of backups.... I personally do have 3 or more backups on multiple drives of every table every rom every B2S (worth having)

this going for hundreds if not thousands of guy from schenectady to east jabip 

so no one with any common sense is worrying about any plugs being pulled....
with in less then 12hrs we would all be golden again

 

do you know why cable and satellite theft isn't advertised on TV anymore??... because they got the stats back.... the more they cried the more the theft went up

after napster it was 10000 times easier to get free music... (thank you Lars you POS) 

so its just silly to think any of this will go aways in your life time... most of us here are old f**ks and once were gone then the whole shit show will collapse...

and all that will be left is PS and Xbox... good luck with that life kids....

 

 

Ummmm ... bullshit. I'm totally calling bullshit on that. It certainly IS how the world works. Gary stated he did NOT want new tables virtualized, no matter WHERE or WHO was doing it is irrelevant.

 

 

Gary doesnt get to say what people do virtually (make cheese) .... and for sure not when the cheese is free, come on man.... no one thinks that make any sense in the least....

 

Xenomorph you ought to consider a career in professional shilling. There are political candidates that need your thoughtless devotion to agreements that you weren't a part of and may not even exist.

 

/ lol

 

I believe that this deal does exist. No I wasn't personally here to see the deal when it was made. Nor was I a part of it.

Apparantly If you dont see it then its not true? You can deny it all you want, thats your choice.  LOL

 

  

 

there's a special table for this....LOL

[Noah Fentz]

All it takes is for Gary to notice, and sites will be receiving C&D's  <----I dont want to be smug , but i will...
just like the music industry shutting down napster... it will do nothing....
WE ALL have backups of backup of backups.... I personally do have 3 or more backups on multiple drives of every table every rom every B2S (worth having)
this going for hundreds if not thousands of guy from schenectady to east jabip 
so no one with any common sense is worrying about any plugs being pulled....
with in less then 12hrs we would all be golden again
 
do you know why cable and satellite theft isn't advertised on TV anymore??... because they got the stats back.... the more they cried the more the theft went up
after napster it was 10000 times easier to get free music... (thank you Lars you POS) 
so its just silly to think any of this will go aways in your life time... most of us here are old f**ks and once were gone then the whole shit show will collapse...
and all that will be left is PS and Xbox... good luck with that life kids....

 

 

Ummmm ... bullshit. I'm totally calling bullshit on that. It certainly IS how the world works. Gary stated he did NOT want new tables virtualized, no matter WHERE or WHO was doing it is irrelevant.



 

 
Gary doesnt get to say what people do virtually (make cheese) .... and for sure not when the cheese is free, come on man.... no one thinks that make any sense in the least....

My point is, he doesn't want it done, and it shows a severe lack of respect in return for all the understanding and support they've shown this community. It doesn't matter if the C&D drives everyone underground, or whatever, as I've maintained all along, it's about F'N RESPECT.

You're mistaken on your last point. All the art and digital assets are licensed, either wholly or in part, or owned by Stern Pinball. It's up to them what to allow as fan projects, whether it be physical, virtual, music, or otherwise, even if it's given away freely.

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[xenonph]

Oh...I didn't see that Stop Sign being installed officer, thats why I figured, "Why should I stop?" I wasn't here when it was made.  LOL

Sad to see people who want to follow the rules, belittled by others who dont believe the rule exists.

[hauntfreaks]

someone wanting respect is something most people would like.... so you want it , but you can't demand it...
then there is the giver of the respect, because respect itself is virtual , one person's respect is another person's disrespect...

respect in some countries is giving one of your daughters to, someone you "respect" ... others take that as human trafficking....
so for Gary to blanketly say... if it came from my factory no matter if it's virteral or a re-imaging a whole different animal... you can't do it....
some might say , well fuck, that sounds like a challenge...  other might go about their business and not even have a second thought if it was respect or disrespect

most wouldnt even put respect into the equation.... but you have... and you obviously have tremendous amounts of respect for him , and good for you, if it make you feel good at the end of the day again good for you
but.... you can't expect everyone to do the same, think the same, have what it take to be the same... 
we ogle these ideas like respect, morals, faith... these are all feeling within ourselves, that we create or are fostered over time by life experiences... these are not ones and zeros
we all create our own and follow our own... so out of respect just aint gonna cut it

 

do i need to give my mona lisa analogy again?
just search this topic MONA LISA   were all good to go, its more then 3 letters

Edited by hauntfreaks, 07 September 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[dark]

I think we need more analogies and metaphors.

[xenonph]

You can choose to stop at the stop sign, or not. Whether you believe it was put there for a good reason or not, doesnt change the fact that the stop sign was made. Yes some will follow the rules and stop, and others will just go right on through the Stop Sign, without even touching the brakes.

As part of this large community, I realize there are different points of view on this subject.

I am just stating my personal opinion.

You can laugh at me all you want and say I should be a lawyer.

I respect others opinions, and I also respect rules made for this site.

If that makes me a bad person, or subject to ridicule, then so be it.

 

Keep on Pinballin'

[chepas]

 

My point is, he doesn't want it done, and it shows a severe lack of respect in return for all the understanding and support they've shown this community. It doesn't matter if the C&D drives everyone underground, or whatever, as I've maintained all along, it's about F'N RESPECT.

Ain't worth arguing about man, this thread gone silly. You know the games in production, how old they are, etc etc, just stick a zero tolerance to it.

 

People do know rules so... why keep on arguing what you can & can't do?

[hauntfreaks]

I think we need more analogies and metaphors.

 

i'm 51 so i have a lot, but i'm starting to run low.... i'm sure i can invent a few more when need be.... 

 

what i don't get is why my cats and dogs one didnt didnt crush the thread... oh well back to the drawing board

I wish it was mandatory when replying to certain topics we don't get a selfie to show some of the rage...LOL

[Noah Fentz]

Well, we can go on all day, but at the end of that day, it's still a threat to this site, not just the 'others', so there's much more to it than respect. I just think the disrespect part is the worst aspect of the whole deal.

In the end, those site owners have opened themselves up to legal damages as a result of a loss of exclusivity to the new tables by those who license and virtualize them for a legit commercial endeavor. Frankly, I can see it happening at some point, but what do I know, right?

As for Mona Lisa, the copyright expired years ago, so I don't see the relevancy.



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[Drybonz]

I sure wish I had a dollar for every analogy in this thread.

[hauntfreaks]

You can choose to stop at the stop sign, or not. Whether you believe it was put there for a good reason or not, doesnt change the fact that the stop sign was made. Yes some will follow the rules and stop, and others will just go right on through the Stop Sign, without even touching the brakes.

As part of this large community, I realize there are different points of view on this subject.

I am just stating my personal opinion.

You can laugh at me all you want and say I should be a lawyer.

I respect others opinions, and I also respect rules made for this site.

If that makes me a bad person, or subject to ridicule, then so be it.

 

Keep on Pinballin'

 

ok... since your making me do this.... here... we.... go....

 

if i was riding my bike down the street, and some dude says stop, I would look around realize i was fine... and keep going....

now if i'm in my car, and legit stop signs made of metal and reflective applique... not a piece of cardboard, is reminding me to stop, because I might be t-boned , then i stop... look both ways... and continue on

 

FUN FACT: did you know since they made it mandatory to yield to pedestrians (meaning pedestrians no longer need to look both ways before crossing) pedestrian death rates have quadrupled 

 

also Please please, go back and read all the posts.... NO ONE has said they disagree with the rules on VPF.... nor is anyone not following them...

if you disagree please copy and paste the opposed, dont just throw words around...

I'll also remind you I'm the dude that told the author of this thread that his content was breaking the RULES!!..... holy moly!!

Edited by hauntfreaks, 07 September 2016 - 08:34 PM.

[freneticamnesic]

There's only a few people profiting from this hobby...of course they'd come after you first. That would suck but I think, as a business owner, you should be aware of these consequences when you're operating. Because you've made yourself the face of virtual pinball, you've consequently made yourself the target. Operating VPF and VirtuaPin together is a slight conflict of interest. I could come up with a few reasons why but I don't think it needs to be said.

 

The other site which recently began accepting payments for tiered privileges related to downloading is also operating in a bit of a grey area, because it is hosting roms as well... similar to this website... If I was a copyright holder that would stick out right away.

 

I mean you can't be a pious sinner (there's an analogy for those keeping count)

 

If it's simply about respect, and not about legality, well then. I think we're mighty respectful! My stance on table mods is "it's not my table, go for it" because really, it's not, all the work is done by the incredible designers and artists at Stern et al. I consider it more like an active archive, allowing people to play tables who may not otherwise be able to play them. Like arngrim said, he doesn't get pinball tables near him, so being able to play them when they're still relevant is a huge bonus. Or in the case of tables like Kingpin and Verne's World, it really is about preserving history, these are tables 99% of us will never get to play, being able to recreate them is a privilege and and honor, having the resources and the community enabling us to recreate them to a high standard, against your best efforts... Never forget: Kingpin resource fiasco, 2015 (I need to make like badges or something for this stuff). So yea, I think I have a lot of respect for these guys. I play a lot of pinball, I spend a lot of money at the arcade, and at the bars that have pinball machines. I exclusively visit bars that have pinball machines. Does that excuse what I do? Well that only matters if I am doing anything wrong. I don't believe I am, so no excuses needed, despite what you think this paragraph is!

 

When I meet Gary, I'll tell him I love what he's done for pinball, I appreciate what he's done to keep this hobby alive, and I respect the dedication he has to it. Even in the bad times, he stuck with it and he made it work. That absolutely gets my respect, everyone else closed up shot and abandoned the sector. I'll let him know virtual pinball rejuvenated my interest in the game. I think he knows that is true for a lot of people, since he's going after the digital market. If you want to talk about respect, that's a good place to start. He respects this corner of the hobby enough to try to participate in it. I think it would be really respectful to not recreate tables that they've released digitally. That's tough when it comes to what The Pinball Arcade but I think that's where it starts.

 

*Flips the hourglass and rolls the dice, draws a card. Check.*

[Noah Fentz]

As has been made painfully clear, VirtuaPin does not ship with tables or ROMs. No conflict there with any of the pinball entities, as that is the agreement we made with all of them. Enough said. I've been open and forthcoming with all of them.

I started VirtuaPin to help members of the community get the best possible product at the best possible price. In reality, it compliments, not conflicts at all. Have you seen some of the overpriced garbage out there? $8,000 - $10,000 for a virtual cabinet is ridiculous!

We've also manufactured many 'dead' parts, complimenting real pinball restoration and new boutique builds, as well. We build many cabinets for restorations, and we're proud to be doing the hobby a great service by preserving the real machines. VirtuaPin is a lot deeper than just virtual pinball.

All in all, I've been in contact with darn near everyone there is to contact in the pinball world on this subject, and we will abide by the terms they've set forth, which are minimal, really, sans the no new games stipulation put in place by Stern.

That's about all I have to say on the matter. Free will is a bitch, but so are consequences of one's actions.

[chinzman93]

Wow...I almost missed "VPF Dust Up 2016" (Patent-Pending...LOL).

 

It is really great that Virtuapin has expanded into replacement parts and cabinets for real pinball machines.

 

I think it would be fair to say that the Virtuapin itself is merely an appliance that allows for the playing of virtual pinball software.....nothing more. Early on this software basically consisted of free content from FP and VP which is free to all.

 

I hope this thread has room for one more analogy.....

 

"The squirt gun is invented. It is only an appliance to squirt water. Water is free. The squirt gun itself is a commercial product. Without the water, the squirt gun is just expensive plastic. The squirt gun only complements the water."

 

Granted, now there are for purchase pinball software products that work on a cabinet (Unfortunately, not TPA...thank you Stern). But early on, that wasn't the case. At that time, without the free content from table authors, a Virtuapin was just an egronomically-challenged web browser. I think that might be the conflict referred to above.

 

That may also be........The 100th Analogy in this thread.........

 

 

 

See you all for "VPF Dust Up 2017"......

 

P.S.  Noah...you should really consider selling shirts, cups, and other items for the annual Dust Up!

Edited by chinzman93, 08 September 2016 - 06:27 AM.

[alistaircg]

So I guess this is no go

 

clipboard.jpg

The stay puff man needs to rotate 6 degrees clockwise and the building on the top left needs to move over right a bit

 

geesh didn't you look at the pictures ;p

Edited by alistaircg, 08 September 2016 - 07:28 PM.

[roar]

As has been made painfully clear, VirtuaPin does not ship with tables or ROMs. No conflict there with any of the pinball entities, as that is the agreement we made with all of them. Enough said. I've been open and forthcoming with all of them.

I started VirtuaPin to help members of the community get the best possible product at the best possible price. In reality, it compliments, not conflicts at all. Have you seen some of the overpriced garbage out there? $8,000 - $10,000 for a virtual cabinet is ridiculous!

We've also manufactured many 'dead' parts, complimenting real pinball restoration and new boutique builds, as well. We build many cabinets for restorations, and we're proud to be doing the hobby a great service by preserving the real machines. VirtuaPin is a lot deeper than just virtual pinball.

All in all, I've been in contact with darn near everyone there is to contact in the pinball world on this subject, and we will abide by the terms they've set forth, which are minimal, really, sans the no new games stipulation put in place by Stern.

That's about all I have to say on the matter. Free will is a bitch, but so are consequences of one's actions.

 

You do offer the best prices around... even after taxes, duty, exchange and gas for an 8 hour return trip your prices were significantly better than I could get locally! As an added bonus I got to see more of the great state of Michigan

Edited by roar, 08 September 2016 - 12:12 PM.