1002 replies to this topic

[mukuste]

Hi,

 

I also like the new effects very much but I think they need more fine tuning (or setting options). For me it is really hard to achive the desired table feeling at the moment. The settings of spinners and flippers used as gates have to be adjusted too, if You want to convert a table. 

 

My suggestion for a VPin9 physics extension is the use of downscaled parameters for strength and force, so that the older tables work out of the box with the default settings.

The newer, much bigger, parameter values should be used in the VP10 version, if necessary.

 

This will never work, I didn't just rescale the range of the parameters, they have a completely different physical meaning now. So just rescaling won't mean that old tables will play out of the box, they will still have to be tuned, there is no way around this.

 

What difficulties do you have in achieving the proper table feeling?

[mukuste]

I can reproduce the jumping ball and it's the reason I assumed... I'll either have to hack this a bit or introduce a true contact solver, which is a bit more mathematically complex but would be the cleanest solution.

 

Here's my take on the whole version dilemma after thinking about it a bit more: VP9 has been around for a long time, introducing a new breed of incompatible tables to it so close to the end of its lifecycle doesn't sound like a good idea. Indeed, the whole idea was always that breaking changes wouldn't happen before VP10, and I see no reason to change this policy now.

 

Instead, I propose: finish up the VP9-DX9 compatibility release. Then, start the VP10 branch, which gets the new physics engine, presumably the 3D ball, as well as all the pending bugfixes which we have stored up, but can't really do now because they will break compatibility. This will allow a release of VP 10.0.0 pretty soon, with likely a few bugfix releases like VP 10.0.X after that. Then, as more incompatible features and bugfixes are introduced, we move to VP 10.1.0, and the cycle continues. New tables should have a version check which makes sure that they are run in the proper version of VP10. We'll also have a new file extension (.vpx) to ensure that tables are tuned for the new version.

Edited by mukuste, 10 April 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[freezy]

Sounds like a perfect plan. By the way, yesterday I spent 30min playing on a table that only has 2 slingshots.

 

Fantastic progress!

[BananaBoat]

Mukuste, I have a master's in mathematics if it helps you ....

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[mukuste]

Mukuste, I have a master's in mathematics if it helps you ....

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Thanks... I have a PhD

[BananaBoat]

Talk about making someone feel inadequate for offering to help.

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[hassanchop]

Uau! Nice!

[mukuste]

Talk about making someone feel inadequate for offering to help.

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Sorry, no offense meant, and thanks for the offer! It was in good fun, as I hope the made clear.

 

[OuchTilt]

Mukuste, I have a master's in mathematics if it helps you ....

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Thanks... I have a PhD

I've got a calculator.

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Edited by OuchTilt, 10 April 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[BananaBoat]

Just wanted to report that I don't get the ball jumping issue on Kings of Steel.

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[The Loafer]

I have heard of math before ...

I think many would like to mess with this on current tables sooner rather than later, thus the reason why there's going to be a lot of suggestions to have a vp9 built with this new physics. Yes, it breaks tables but an edit Resave fixes that. This may not be the best solution, I think your vp10 idea is the best way to go but now we all just got teased with awesome sauce so we want to eat that awesome sauce now not later

[BananaBoat]

Me and my maths degree both agree.

I've been spending my time reconfiguring my favourite tables to take advantage of said awesome sauce... this really need to be integrated into some version of DX9 sooner rather than later.... shouldn't have released it yet!

This thing is indeed awesome sauce.

Edited by BananaBoat, 10 April 2014 - 11:24 AM.

[mukuste]

Maybe I shouldn't have released it yet -- now everyone has tasted blood and wants more! (Yes, the secret ingredient in the awesome sauce is blood. Deal with it.) But I was really excited and couldn't keep it secret anymore! I had a feeling this would be big for VP. Also, as the DX9 thread showed, nothing finds bugs as fast as a rabid horde of pinball fanatics poring over a new toy.

 

Tell you what, whatever happens, when the official DX9 version comes out, I'll at the very least compile an inofficial physmod version of it for "home use" so that people who want it now can have it. I'd still prefer if modded tables weren't published at that point, at least not through the usual channels, to avoid a big mess.

 

I'll also wait for the other devs' opinion on what is the best way to proceed, I can't make these decisions alone.

[BananaBoat]

Thanks... I have a PhD

can you and your PhD fix the ball bounce issue...lol



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[kruge99]

What is this 'math' tho dost speak of?  ;-)

[unclewilly]

Very nice. I converted mb last night. Very nice indeed.

So how far of is the dx9 compatibility release.

I'm eager for vp10 development to start

[faralos]

and I am a high school dropout with a 146 IQ!

 

so what makes vp go from vp9 to vp10 instead of vp9.something

and fyi vp9 ain't that old a program vp8 ran for a while but vp9 is less than four years old

 that is ancient in computer speak I guess

[rascal]

and I am a high school dropout with a 146 IQ!

 

so what makes vp go from vp9 to vp10 instead of vp9.something

and fyi vp9 ain't that old a program vp8 ran for a while but vp9 is less than four years old

 that is ancient in computer speak I guess

Another great mind destroyed by meth.... oh you said math! Nevermind....

[MTPPC]

Under the open source model, this mod might warrant a fork. I know that for me, I'm anxious for the physics improvement, but my cab will have to wait for an easy method to merge the old with the new. I can see where "visual pinball" and "physics pinball" could exist side by side just like FP and VP do today. The problem is going to be keeping the tables organized.

 

I also see this as an opportunity to change the packaging of tables so that there could be an official torrent released on a monthly schedule to eliminate the piecemeal nature of adding tables.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of problems with my ideas, but I thought to throw them out there.

[ClarkKent]

I can reproduce the jumping ball and it's the reason I assumed... I'll either have to hack this a bit or introduce a true contact solver, which is a bit more mathematically complex but would be the cleanest solution.

 

Please take the more mathematical complex - and clean - solution! A hack would be not the best thing to start a whole new version!

 

I like the idea that as soon as the DX9 version is official release, an additional one with the new physics come along. That's the best solution to my mind.