80 replies to this topic

[majestec]

Hi people

However, maybee I misunderstand something.
I have adapted the size of the ball thus in I the dimension of picture area has changed. Then therefore the ball is also smaller or bigger. Thus, first export, work on and again import. This is everything.

Greetings MJT

[Wizards_Hat]

gentlemen,
im impressed.
the user guide was very helpful but did not talk about this.

"This"? Do you mean ball recoil when it hits another ball...then no, the user guide doesn't talk about it because it's not a specific setting in VP

debug is another.
you started something but did not finish.

I have found since the last version of the user guide was released that there are bugs in it with vp9...i.e. you cannot click on some items on the playfield, but...what's not finished about the debug? What extra do you think it needs? (all of the debug description was written by Randy when he first included it in vp)

Regards,
Dan.

[chas]

I have found since the last version of the user guide was released that there are bugs in it with vp9...i.e. you cannot click on some items on the playfield, but...what's not finished about the debug? What extra do you think it needs? (all of the debug description was written by Randy when he first included it in vp)

Regards,
Dan. >>>>>>>>>>>>

>>I have found since the last version of the user guide was released that there are bugs in it with vp9...i.e. you cannot click on some items on the PF>>>
i found a way to search for something that may not be able to click on in the editor or could be buried under ramps, rails, GFI etc......
if it is a wall or rubber bumper start at the first wall or bumper in the object submenu.
ex:
in the object submenu start with the first wall or bumper what may be wall 1 or bumper 1.
then use the arrow down under the right shift to search.
watch the editor everytime you press the arrow down.
every time you press the arrow down a different object will highlight in blue.

>>what's not finished about the debug?>>>
it dont work.
there was maybe 1/2 page in the user guide.
followed what little instuctions there was.

>>This"? Do you mean ball recoil when it hits another ball...then no, the user guide doesn't talk about it because it's not a specific setting in VP<<<
i guess it needs something in the editor or scripting for that kicker.
the ball in play recoils or kicks back too fast.
elasticity for walls, slings, rubber bumpers, drop targets and round push targets can be changed in the editor window under "state".
cannot find anything for the recoil, kickback, elasticity, for this application.
if i remember correct under state there is only "hit enabled" , "scatter angle" and "hit heigth".
nothing for hit threshold and elasticity as for walls, slings, rubber bumpers, drop targets, push targets and levers.
ill take another look at the script.

>>What extra do you think it needs?
the user guide was a little weak sometimes.
its good.

Edited by chas, 26 December 2011 - 09:05 PM.

[Wizards_Hat]

I have found since the last version of the user guide was released that there are bugs in it with vp9...i.e. you cannot click on some items on the playfield, but...what's not finished about the debug? What extra do you think it needs? (all of the debug description was written by Randy when he first included it in vp)

Regards,
Dan. >>>>>>>>>>>>

>>I have found since the last version of the user guide was released that there are bugs in it with vp9...i.e. you cannot click on some items on the PF>>>
i found a way to search for something that may not be able to click on in the editor or could be buried under ramps, rails, GFI etc......
if it is a wall or rubber bumper start at the first wall or bumper in the object submenu.
ex:
in the object submenu start with the first wall or bumper what may be wall 1 or bumper 1.
then use the arrow down under the right shift to search.
watch the editor everytime you press the arrow down.
every time you press the arrow down a different object will highlight in blue.

Erm...you & I were talking about the debug = now you're talking about the editor?!?
Using the DEBUG - there is a problem with VP9 not being able to select some objects through right clicking them on the playfield (you could select anything by this method on all version of vp<9)

>>what's not finished about the debug?>>>
it dont work.

Yes it does.

there was maybe 1/2 page in the user guide.
followed what little instuctions there was.

What did you try that "didn't work"?
I've just followed what it says in the guide - the activeball thing does still work in vp9, but it doesn't put a red circle on the ball. It definitely still does work though (I've just checked it).
Some objects can't be right-click selected (e.g. kickers).
EVERYTHING ELSE described in the user guide about the debug works fine...and to be honest I can't think of any other way of phrasing it. e.g.

If you have a global variable called 'score' you can display its value with PRINT. (Note that the first command in your VB Script must be Option Explicit, or at the very least the variable you are attempting to print must be defined, e.g. Dim Score)
print score

You can set the value like this:
score = 10000000

Noitce words like "IF" at the very start of the sentence....and, "first command MUST be" or "MUST be defined" etc. If you haven't followed the instructions (like a lot of things in life) it won't work, if you have followed the instructions it does work.

If anyone wants to rewrite this in another way that would be better understood...please submit it - the user guide is a WIP...but as I say, personally I can't see a better way of describing how to use the debug (other than the addition of a line or two explaing the vp9 bugs with it). Remember the debug is intended for coders to check their scripts - so if someone doesn't understand scripting fully, they'll almost certainly struggle to understand what to do with the debug.

>>This"? Do you mean ball recoil when it hits another ball...then no, the user guide doesn't talk about it because it's not a specific setting in VP<<<
i guess it needs something in the editor or scripting for that kicker.
the ball in play recoils or kicks back too fast.
elasticity for walls, slings, rubber bumpers, drop targets and round push targets can be changed in the editor window under "state".
cannot find anything for the recoil, kickback, elasticity, for this application.
if i remember correct under state there is only "hit enabled" , "scatter angle" and "hit heigth".
nothing for hit threshold and elasticity as for walls, slings, rubber bumpers, drop targets, push targets and levers.
ill take another look at the script.

Yep...there is nothing like elasticity, hit threshold etc for balls (so therefore it would not be mentioned in the user guide!). If you knew what you were doing with scripting you could write a routine that limits the ball speed after hitting another ball - you would need to use the ball properties (as listed in the user guide under Appendix III - Object Properties, Events and Methods).

>>What extra do you think it needs?
the user guide was a little weak sometimes.
its good.

As I said above - if you think you can improve the user guide anywhere - please submit what you think would be better phrases, sentences, paragraphs, descriptions, screenshots etc - I will include anything that improves it in the next version.

While saying it is "a little weak sometimes" maybe valid criticism, it doesn't actually help me improve it any - even if you don't want to rewrite any of it, and you think a particular part is poorly written (or weak, whatever), you could let me know which parts they are so that they can look to be improved for future.

Regards,
Dan.

[chas]

Edit

nothing for hit threshold and elasticity as for walls, slings, rubber bumpers, drop targets, push targets and levers.>>>>>>>>
sorry gentlemen.
typo
what i meant was there is no hit threshlod and elasticity for the balls in the editor in the above post 63.

>>>>>>Erm...you & I were talking about the debug = now you're talking about the editor?!?
Using the DEBUG - there is a problem with VP9 not being able to select some objects through right clicking them on the playfield (you could select anything by this method on all version of vp<9)>>>>>>>
sorry Dan if i was not clear.
the debug is part of the editor in the escape key.
i played real PB.
just trying to help.
you might go somewhere with this.

Edited by chas, 27 December 2011 - 07:43 AM.

[Wizards_Hat]

Edit

nothing for hit threshold and elasticity as for walls, slings, rubber bumpers, drop targets, push targets and levers.>>>>>>>>
sorry gentlemen.
typo
what i meant was there is no hit threshlod and elasticity for the balls in the editor in the above post 63.

I know what you meant...that's why I said what I said about it not being part of the user guide...there are no such settings for balls. To solve the problems you are encountering with balls hitting captive balls, you would need to use the ball "properties" to script the collision better.

>>>>>>Erm...you & I were talking about the debug = now you're talking about the editor?!?
Using the DEBUG - there is a problem with VP9 not being able to select some objects through right clicking them on the playfield (you could select anything by this method on all version of vp<9)>>>>>>>
sorry Dan if i was not clear.
the debug is part of the editor in the escape key.

Now you're really confusing me - "debug window" is part of the vp "player" (i.e. accessed by pressing escape key during "play"), not the editor. Therefore the comments you made about selecting items are invalid in the "debug" (true for the editor). That's the point I was trying to make there.

i played real PB.

I play more real pinball than vp - but quite irrelevant to anything so far discussed - I thought we were talking about using the debug window & the vp user guide??

just trying to help.
you might go somewhere with this.

Yep...I think you're right...I think I'll go round the bend with this

(I didn't even have any questions...I was just trying to help you understand the debug window, and understand that there was nothing "missing" from the user guide regarding ball options!)

Regards,
Dan.

[Michael Gallo]

For example, I've been working on getting a new installer together. Software for installer is $299 USD. Maybe this would have helped you out.

I'm probably (very) late to the party here, but why not use InnoSetup? It's free (no ads, nothing) and works very well. We've used it for many years for a commercial project, and it never failed once.

[chas]

I play more real pinball than vp - but quite irrelevant to anything so far discussed - I thought we were talking about using the debug window & the vp user guide?? >>>>>>

sorry if i am not clear.
yes, we are talking about the debug window in the VP user guide.
to access the debug window the table must be in play.
using escape key after table has loaded does nothing.
while in play use escape key to get the window for "quit to editor", "resume" and "debug window".
the table will pause.
followed the user guide.
tried clicking on the ball to make balll active.
then clicked on an object.
there might be several options for "hit", "fire" etc....
if i remember correct when i click on fire it resumes play.
i would like to test fire the ball on objects like slings, targets and rubber bumpers.
cannot get the ball to simulate the test fire.
is this the way it is supposed to work?

>>you might go somewhere with this.
Yep...I think you're right...I think I'll go round the bend with this >>>>>>
a big company might buy this up.
i dont see why not.

[Wizards_Hat]

i would like to test fire the ball on objects like slings, targets and rubber bumpers.
cannot get the ball to simulate the test fire.
is this the way it is supposed to work?

I'll try & explain one last time...if you don't get it here, it doesn't matter because it's not meant for you anyway....:

The debug window is for TESTING SCRIPT (i.e. "debugging" a table)

e.g.
open a "new" table in vp.
In the script go to "Sub RightSLingshot_Slingshot" and add a line so that the sub reads:

CODE

Sub RightSlingshot_Slingshot()
    PlaySound "Bumper"
    ScoreText.Text="Hi Chas"
End Sub

Go to play the table.
Open the debug window
Right-click on the right slingshot and select "slingshot" from the sub menu that appears next to "RightSlingshot"
The score will display the message "Hi Chas".
You have just "simulated a test fire" of the right slingshot.
It does not use the ball to do this.

That will do for now...as I said, if you get this, fine...if not, it doesn't matter.

Regards,
Dan.

[chas]

Go to play the table.
Open the debug window
Right-click on the right slingshot and select "slingshot" from the sub menu that appears next to "RightSlingshot"
The score will display the message "Hi Chas".
You have just "simulated a test fire" of the right slingshot.
It does not use the ball to do this.

That will do for now...as I said, if you get this, fine...if not, it doesn't matter.

Regards,
Dan.>>>>>>>>>>

well D,
if i remember it talks about test fire.
did not say anything about "testing script".
it will test fire the slings but no ball test fire.
its more work to start and stop the table to make changes.
i was looking for a faster way to set the table up.
i was under the impression it was used to test fire events to set the table up.
there are no discussions on this in the forum.
sorry bout dat...........

Edited by chas, 28 December 2011 - 09:30 AM.

[Wizards_Hat]

It is possible to use the ball to hit things using the debug window as well.

For example - to "Test fire" the slingshot using the ball do this:
- open a "new" table
- open the debug window
- right-click the ball and "make activeball"
- expand the "debug window" using the right arrow ">"
- type "ActiveBall.x=500" and hit return
- type "ActiveBall.y=1500" and hit return
- type "ActiveBall.velx=10" and hit return
- Click on the table and "voila" the ball will strike the slingshot

i.e. you can set the coordinates of the active ball using .x .y or .z
and you can set the velocities of it using .velx, .vely or .velz

Therefore with a bit of knowledge of the table (or trial & error) you can "test fire" any part of the table with the ball.

Regards,
Dan.

[chas]

#71
this is what i was looking for.
how to get the ball to simulate the test fire.
i will definitly give it a look.
the usee guide did not do this.
thanks Dan.

[analog999]

Dan, this will be very useful, thanks...

[Wizards_Hat]

ok - maybe I'll include a description of using the debug window in this way in the next version of the user guide.
I never did previously as it would only show an example of how to use it...I tried to avoid using examples of any of the options.

IMO giving examples in a user guide, especially for VP, is poor as most users would only look at using those specific examples and not explore what changing any of the options does.
I'm inclined to make an exception for the debug window as most people just don't seem to understand it at all.

Unless anyone makes a better suggestion, I think I'll use the examples I've given here - i.e. using the debug window to show how to fire the slingshot without the ball, and how to fire it with the ball.
Any other suggestions for changing the user guide description of debug window (or any else) welcomed.

Regards,
Dan.

[chas]

Any other suggestions for changing the user guide description of debug window (or any else) welcomed.>>>>>>>>>>>>

if you want.
the debug and ball size in vp units would be good.
i also feel something is needed in the editor or the script for the elasticity for the ball(s) when hitting another ball in the rail.

i have not tried it yet.
some tables have a wall in front of the ball with a hit height of 0/50 and elasticity on the wall.
maybe creating a wall in front of the ball with a hit heigth of 20/40 then use elasticity on the created wall may help with the hard kickback.
something in the editor or script might be better.
whatever you think is best.

on another subject.
some tables objects for L/R slings and walls are reversed in the object submenu.
trying to bump up the L/R slingshot strength or elasticty in the object submenu did not work.
the wall worked for the sling strength and elasticity.
how do i fix it in the object submenu in the editor?

Edited by chas, 02 January 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[Wizards_Hat]

Any other suggestions for changing the user guide description of debug window (or any else) welcomed.>>>>>>>>>>>>

if you want.
the debug and ball size in vp units would be good.

The debug is already there (Section 6: Escape Key) & as already mentioned, will be ammended with an additional example of how to get the ball where you want, travelling how you want.

Ball size in VP Units is already there!! "Appendix II - VP Units" (it does mention the ball size).

i also feel something is needed in the editor or the script for the elasticity for the ball(s) when hitting another ball in the rail.

i have not tried it yet.
some tables have a wall in front of the ball with a hit height of 0/50 and elasticity on the wall.
maybe creating a wall in front of the ball with a hit heigth of 20/40 then use elasticity on the created wall may help with the hard kickback.
something in the editor or script might be better.
whatever you think is best.

Nothing to do with the user guide - this is a version change you're talking about. So it is not "whatever I think is best". It effectively is nothing to do with me (I wish I had the skill to change the source code in such a way).

As has been said by others - there are many changes many people would like to see in VP. It is open source. So anyone can change it.
If you do not have the ability to change it, it is pointless (& annoying) to keep harping on about these changes being necessary/wanted.
If you can find a work around that does the job in the current version of VP, then that's fantastic, and please tell everyone about it (e.g. your suggestion above about placing a wall in front - test it...if it works then tell everybody...if not, then keep going until you find something worth sharing about the problem).

Regards,
Dan.

[chas]

gentlermen,
sometimes i would like to create a rubber bumper or rubber peg.
i cant seem to find anything in the editor for rubber bumpers or rubber pegs.
the closest i could find was a pop bumper.
used radius to make it smaller then used physics for force.

how do i create a rubber bumper or pubber peg with elasticity?

[s1500]

everybody
on this site,
needs to stop
typing like this. it is the slaughtering
of the english language.

that makes it hard to read anyone's posts.
it makes it look like poetry, but still not readable.

[chas]

everybody
on this site,
needs to stop
typing like this. it is the slaughtering
of the english language.
that makes it hard to read anyone's posts.
it makes it look like poetry, but still not readable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

i dont what are you talking about.
my grammer is good, complete sentences in paragraph form.

you dont need to use a comma after "on this site".
its all one sentence.
better grammer woulld be;
everybody on this site needs to stop typing like this.
it is the slaughtering of the english language.
i could read you post ok.
the sentence structure was not good.
i still understood.


i had 2 questions.
1. some tables objects for L/R slings and walls are reversed in the object submenu.
trying to bump up the L/R slingshot strength or elasticty in the object submenu did not work.
the wall worked for the sling strength and elasticity.
how do i switch the wall and L/R slingshot in the object submenu in the editor?

2. sometimes i would like to create a rubber bumper or rubber peg.
i cant seem to find anything in the editor to create rubber bumpers or rubber pegs.
the closest i could find was a pop bumper.
used radius to make it smaller then used physics for force.
how do i create a rubber bumper or pubber peg with elasticity?


>>>>>>> there are many changes many people would like to see in VP. It is open source. So anyone can change it.
If you do not have the ability to change it, it is pointless (& annoying) to keep harping on about these changes being necessary/wanted.
If you can find a work around that does the job in the current version of VP, then that's fantastic, and please tell everyone about it (e.g. your suggestion above about placing a wall in front - test it...if it works then tell everybody...if not, then keep going until you find something worth sharing about the problem).>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
been thinking about this for awhile.
alot of us did play real PB.
you want ideas, comments and suggestions.
when we do comment you take it like a punch in the gut.
we are not arguing or critisizing your work.
just trying to help make VP better.

Edited by chas, 05 January 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[chas]

Bob,
you made tables with carasoul spinners in the center of the table.
i cant get the spinner to spin when i tag it hard.
it spins 1x maybe 1 1/2 x.
it should spin.
cannot find a way to lighten up on the friction in the scripts window or in options to get the carasoul spinner to spin on 3 tables.

at www.irpinball.org 70s tables
triple action
star pool
your recreation of fantasic four.

i played real triple action.
the carasoul spinner should spin with a good hit.

if you guys make any tables with a carasoul spinner in the center it should spin with a good hit.
not 1x or 1 1/2x
maybe 4 or 5x.

if you dont have time its ok.

Edited by chas, 26 January 2012 - 08:13 AM.